14 ms·

I'm Pirating the Next Version of Windows

341 points by jcnnghm 15y ago

valverde 15y ago
"Why do pirates have a better experience than customers?" This pretty much sums it up. I couldn't agree more.
- majorlazer 15y ago
  In many cases, like downloading movies, I agree. But with Windows, I couldn't disagree more. I used to pirate every version of Windows I owned, back in the days of Windows 98 and up to Windows XP it was a breeze. Starting around Windows XP SP3, it got a bit more difficult. It was easy to pirate, but after a few weeks/months of use, you get the Genuine Advantage warning. With Windows 7, it is even worse. So I decided to purchase my first legitimate copy of Windows. I haven't looked back. It is so much easier and I don't waste my time re-cracking my Windows installation every month. It is well worth the price. Since then I have also acquired a legitimate version of Office 2010, even though I got it heavily discounted for students, back in the Windows XP days, I would have laughed at the thought of buying $100+ software. And anytime I upgrade hardware or even want to move my install to another computer, the activation is so fast and easy. I don't see how anyone could make the claim that pirating Windows is easier than installing a legitimate copy.
  - reidmain 15y ago
    I can think of a bunch of reasons why people make the claim seeing as how the article is about that. 1) You will always have an outdated installation disc so whenever you want to do a install you're stuck with hours of system updates. 2) Losing your install disc means your SOL. 3) The activation process is not always painless. Whenever you have to call their activation line you are wasting time.
  - Karunamon 15y ago
    For the majority of people, windows activation and windows genuine "advantage" works exactly as advertised. However, when you get on the wrong side of it, it is a pain in the ass of Lovecraftian proportions. I don't know if it's my luck, choice in hardware, or what, but I've had perfectly valid (retail!) keys start throwing WGA errors after working fine for a few months. After spending literally hours on the phone with someone who speaks broken english, I took my crippled XP install (this was back in the pre service-pack 2 days where failing activation meant you got locked out after a few minutes), went to a torrent site, and downloaded an activator. 2 hours (spent on the phone in a fruitless endeavor with the best of Indian tech support) and 5 minutes (spent downloading and running a crack) later, I finally was able to use my bought and paid for software. After that, I pulled down an ISO with the service packs and cracks and other goodies slipstreamed in (XP Ultimate Edition by Johnny, still exists out there somewhere), burned it to a disc, and haven't used "legitimate" channels since. Microsoft does not have my permission to use my CPU cycles and power to inflate their antipiracy metrics.
  - xtracto 15y ago
    Nope, in windows 7 activating via pirate methods is still easier than activating via normal methods. The pirate, illegal method of activating involves downloading a program, 1 double click (to open said program) and 1 click (to run the activation). I wont say which program is it because I do not condone piracy, but it is widespread in the internet. I agree that Microsoft should remove all anti-piracy stuff in their products. It only makes their products more expensive.
- reidmain 15y ago
  This is the scenario with most mediums (TV, movies, etc). Video games and music appear to be the only ones who have solved this with solutions like Steam, Good old Games, iTunes, Amazon Music. Netflix, and the like, are a good step forward but they still suffer from lack of content which leads people right back to pirating.
- _sh 15y ago
  It's only a 'better experience' if they're not caught. Bank robbers have a 'better experience' of a bank if they're not caught too.
  - cgoddard 15y ago
    Why are customers being made to jump through hoops that do practically nothing to deter actual infringement?
jiggy2011 15y ago
I don't use pirated versions of Windows so I don't know the answer to this but I would assume it's a bad idea because: Your trusting a .ISO image from a random website, how do you know there is not time bombed malware pre-installed? Do you still have access to Windows update? If so for how long, I assume it can't be difficult for Microsoft to figure out who is using it illegitimately since some versions must be using either the same keys or keys that have never been issued to a copy of Windows that they have sold?
- davidcollantes 15y ago
  [...] "You're trusting..." [...] I agree with that line, correction added. :-)
  - davidcollantes 15y ago
    To the two minuses (and the potential others): love you too. :-)
- w1ntermute 15y ago
  > Your trusting a .ISO image from a random website, how do you know there is not time bombed malware pre-installed? You don't have to use torrents. You can get a direct download of vanilla Windows 7 ISO's hosted by Microsoft: http://www.mydigitallife.info/official-windows-7-sp1-iso-from-digital-river/ http://www.mydigitallife.info/official-windows-7-sp1-iso-fro... > Do you still have access to Windows update? If so for how long, I assume it can't be difficult for Microsoft to figure out who is using it illegitimately since some versions must be using either the same keys or keys that have never been issued to a copy of Windows that they have sold? Nope, there's a workaround built into Windows because the OEMs strongarmed MS into adding it. You can get a piece of software called the Windows Loader that will activate Windows using this workaround with just one click and a reboot: http://forums.mydigitallife.info/threads/24901-Windows-Loader-Current-release-information http://forums.mydigitallife.info/threads/24901-Windows-Loade...
  - jiggy2011 15y ago
joebadmo 15y ago
While I'm entirely sympathetic to the author's DRM plight, buying the software and getting the pirate's cleaner experience are not mutually exclusive. If you want the best experience and a clean conscience (I'm assuming here you think piracy is wrong, since you've bought so many other copies of MS software), buy the software, then install a pirated a copy. I usually do this with new PCs that have Windows pre-installed, so I don't have to deal with crapware.
- jiggy2011 15y ago
  Would this still be legal though? You are still using an unlicensed copy regardless of whether or not you happen to additionally own another copy. For all they know you might install your licensed copy on another computer later and not remove your unlicensed one.
  - joebadmo 15y ago
    I have no idea whether it's technically legal, actually. But I'm working off two premises: 1. The author doesn't care about legality, since he's finally resorting to piracy anyway. 2. The author would like to compensate MS for the use of a Windows license. If those are true, then buying a copy but actually using a pirate copy does what the author wants.
    - DanBC 15y ago
      Eh, the author wants to pay MS money for the product, but also to be able to use the product without jumping through a bunch of stupid pointless frustrating hoops. MS insists these hoops are needed. The author, after years of giving MS money and jumping through hoops decides to stop giving them money, and stop jumping through the hoops. The author is trying to tell MS, in the post and with the lost sale, that the anti-piracy measures are totally counter-productive, and have pushed a paying customer into a pirate.
      - pbhjpbhj 15y ago
        The author says: >"if I have to go through the hassle of pirating it to get a working copy, I will not be paying for it" Yet his whole argument up to then has been how much easier 'pirating' the OS is. In short he just doesn't want to pay. If it were about ease of use he'd send them the money somehow.
cosmez 15y ago
that and Windows its 50 times the minimum wage here in mexico.
noss 15y ago
I understand the resentment, but the right course of action must surely be to not upgrade. Instead go with an alternative, such as Mac OS or Linux.
- jcnnghm 15y ago
  OS X is actually my primary operating system. There is some software I still need Windows for though, like Photoshop and Quickbooks Enterprise. I guess I could upgrade that software, but I am not paying thousands for new features I won't use. I had to reactivate because Bootcamp is a pain in the ass, so I removed the partition, installed VirtualBox, and installed on that. It activated fine, and has deactivated itself twice now, necessitating phone calls each time. I have probably been through this process 20 times now, with family computers, Windows XP reinstalls, and the like.
  - ROFISH 15y ago
    At least for Parallels, if you read the instructions, it says the first time you start up Windows Boot Camp in the VM, do not activate until it has fully installed Parallel Tools and it's drivers. Something in those drivers, which I presume is legal, prevents the infinite activation loop.
  - squidsoup 15y ago
    In an effort to expedite your transition away from Windows entirely, may I suggest Pixelmator (http://www.pixelmator.com/ http://www.pixelmator.com/) as a Photoshop alternative? It is a pleasure to use and has all of the core features of PS (compositing layers, tools etc).
    - jcnnghm 15y ago
      I have Pixelmator, and I think it's a good 60% solution, but it's no Photoshop. For example, the other day I fired it up to make constrained rectangular marquee selections, and it can't do that. That doesn't sound like a big deal, but I wanted to select at a specific aspect ratio because I needed an image to fit in a specific box. There are lots of little things like that. Not to mention I've been using Photoshop since the 90s, so I'm very proficient with it, it does every single thing I need, and I already paid a lot for it. There really is not a good substitute for Quickbooks Enterprise. And I forgot Regex Buddy. I downloaded Patterns off the App Store, but it's a poor substitute. Regexes aren't pretty, but if you are hacking on something a quick regex can do a lot for a little. EDIT: I just re-read this, and thought it sounded a little too negative toward Pixelmator. I think being a good 60% solution in relation to Photoshop is a huge accomplishment, and that Pixelmator is great software. It is absolutely worth the money. It is a very competent intermediate image editor, and would be $30 well spent for anyone. The criticism is mainly directed toward the lack of some esoteric advanced features, and my curmudgeonly desire to have it work exactly like Photoshop, since that is how I have edited images for the last dozen years.
powertower 15y ago
If you're activating MS products by entering "100-digit" activation keys into your telephone, you're already doing something wrong... Or are a complete edge/outliner case.
- jcnnghm 15y ago
  Says the guy that doesn't have any family members that persistently fubar their systems, necessitating enough reinstalls to trip the activation limit.
  - powertower 15y ago
    If your family members are destroying the OS, the best solution is to either run in a VM which is set to not persist changes (via VMWare or the free options), or to boot from a VHD file for your other members (keep a clean and activated copy that you can revert to). There are many options to solve this issue (ex: the native VHD boot, VirtualPC, HyperV). Telling Microsoft to remove activation is a knee-jerk reaction that helps no one. You can even run Linux as the Host OS. I write and sell software, and activation is absolutely critical and responsible for at least half my revenue.
    - theBobMcCormick 15y ago
      That sounds like an heck of a lot of extra work just to deal with Microsoft's anti-piracy activation system. IMHO, your "answer" just reinforces the original author's point. Why should legitimate paying customers have to deal with all of these workaround and annoyances? Why should legitimate customers have to endure being treated like potential criminals? Especially when these activation systems aren't stopping the pirates!!!!!!!
      - powertower 15y ago
        He's not dealing with Microsoft's anti-piracy activation system as much as he's dealing with issues about family members. And your point about MS not knowing what it's doing... If the activation system was useless, and had no effect on revenue, it would be gone the next day. I've been a legitimate customer since Windows 3.1, and I've only had to activate by phone 1 time. It was painless.
sp332 15y ago
Why can't I just enter my product key and download an updated ISO with slipstreamed service packs? This is especially odd, since you can do exactly that with a one-year TechNet subscription. https://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/subscriptions/buy/hh442910 https://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/subscriptions/buy/hh4429... So it's not like they don't have the infrastructure ready.
eli 15y ago
I wouldn't recommend you try this at your startup. Some day, a potential investor or partner is going to audit your licenses and it'll be pretty embarrassing if you're way out of compliance.
- frankwiles 15y ago
  Might seem like I just hate MS, but honestly I would be just as upset as a potential investor or partner that they were running Windows in the first place. Licensed or not. Unless of course your startup was focused somehow on Windows development, users, etc. where it would obviously be necessary. Startups are hard enough as it is, no need to make them harder.
  - gm 15y ago
    Hmm, if you have an investor that dismisses a platform summarily because of his own biases, then the company is better off without that investor. The investor should ask "and why are you using that platform?" and then make an evaluation based on the answer. Anything less and you have a pretty bad investor. Best to keep away from such people.
  - memnips 15y ago
    Microsoft Bizspark (http://www.microsoft.com/bizspark/ http://www.microsoft.com/bizspark/) gives startups that are less than 3 years old and earn less than $1M in annual revenue free MSDN Ultimate access. That means free access to all of MS software. It's actually a really amazing program.
    - robocat 15y ago
      The BizSpark program has limitations (although still a fantastic deal!). * AFAIK you are licenced to use the software for development and testing purposes ONLY. Not internal use (see the BizSpark FAQ, even though other BizSpark materials seem to imply otherwise). * Except you do get a production 2 proc SQL Server licence, and Windows Server licences... However you may not be able to use the licences with some hosting providers (due to their licences with Microsoft, or just unfamiliarity or complexity overhead). * The BizSpark websites are a time-wasting labyrinth whenever you must update anything (might have improved?). * There are so many catch-alls to prevent "misuse" of the licence, that it looks as though you can't legally use any of the software... although in spirit you can use it and Microsoft isn't going to chase you... (at least that was how I read the licences last time I looked but IANAL YMMV).
csomar 15y ago
Huh, seriously? I purchased a laptop with a genuine Windows 7 version because of this particular issue. I'll spend weeks to find a relatively good Windows copy. The average seeded copy of Windows on the pirate bay or the likes is crappy. Cracks sometimes doesn't work. Sometimes the copy comes with a load of crappy software. Sometimes the cracker changes the Windows theme (not sure why he is doing so). And sometimes everything goes smooth until some day I get a problem because my version is not genuine. I don't install my OS on a daily basis. My average Windows OS install keep up with me for 3-5 years. I wouldn't be bothered to spend some time activating the software. So far, the activations for my MS products was easy, fast and simple.
- gm 15y ago
  True. There comes a point where the time investment is more expensive than just buying a legal copy and installing it. And activating it. I've never had as hard a time activating stuff at the OP, though. When I buy a new machine I always order the restore disks (why do Mfg's think it's ok to not include these and charge customers for obtaining them?), and I've yet to run into restore disks that automatically install the crapware that came on the hard disk.
- re_todd 15y ago
  I recently purchased a laptop with Windows 7 at a national chain, and there is no CD. If I set up a dual boot, which I normally do, I'll be forced to get a pirated version. There is supposedly a way to reinstall from a hidden drive or partition, but that would take over the entire drive. I always wanted to be legit, but I'm not going to pay again for something that I legally already have.
melling 15y ago
If you don't like their product or policies, don't use it. If you use it then you should pay for it. Use Linux, a BSD Unix, or a Mac. People who pirate Microsoft products don't really hurt Microsoft, they hurt the rest of the competition.
- polemic 15y ago
  Don't get me wrong, Microsoft isn't helping themselves with this, but @melling has it on the head. In the current climate, it's this kind of blog post that undoes a lot of the good work people are doing around protesting SOPA/PIPA. For those with a very simple view of copyright, saying you're going to 'steal Microsoft's IP' because you've been inconvenienced is just evidence that Something Must Be Done and the proposed law is a Good Thing.
- jarrett 15y ago
  Certain applications that professionals need are only available on Windows. Most games are as well. Even for software with Mac/*nix versions, a person may have quite a bit of money tied up in Windows-only licenses. I'm not commenting on whether pirating Windows is ethical. I'm just pointing out that sometimes you'll have to ditch a lot of software to ditch Windows.
  - Groxx 15y ago
    You're just reinforcing their argument. By not using the competition, you're ensuring the market for those products on the competition's OS doesn't exist. It's actively strengthening Microsoft's hold on the markets you frequent.
    - jcnnghm 15y ago
      OK. The primary application that I need Windows for is Quickbooks Enterprise. I also still use my Windows Photoshop license since it was expensive, and not transferrable to OS X. My primary operating system is already OS X, and I only use Debian Stable on servers. I run Windows in a VM when I need those application, and only when I need those applications. How would you suggest replacing Quickbooks Enterprise? Do I just stop keeping accounting records? What about the 13 years of records that are already in the accounting system? Should I throw those out? What about inventory and accountant's copies? Will you train my customer's accounting firm to use some other package? What about the inventory database?
sciurus 15y ago
If you already have a windows license but lost your installation media, you can download it without resorting to piracy. The link below has the URLs for the retail ISOs hosted by Amazon. http://www.mydigitallife.info/windows-7-iso-x86-and-x64-official-direct-download-links-ultimate-professional-and-home-premium/ http://www.mydigitallife.info/windows-7-iso-x86-and-x64-offi...
- gm 15y ago
  Lost installation media not at all the point of the post. Read it first.
- nailer 15y ago
  Microsoft Store officially tells you that your download time has expired after you purchase a Windows license, and wish to re-download / re-install more than 3 months after your purchase. The official solution is to buy an additional copy of the Windows license which will provide you with a new download URL. I knows this because I complained to the @microsoftstore twitter account: after purchasing 2 copies of Windows (the crapware-loaded OEM version, the clean one from MS store) I had no intention of purchasing a third. For some reason they simply couldn't allow me a second download, and sent me a physical disc, which arrived about 6 weeks later, by which time a pirated Windows 7 was working fine. However
  - fryguy 15y ago
    I've never had any problems with the copy of windows 7 I bought from the microsoft online store. I've had to redownload it two or three times now, and it's always been there (although the page is near impossible to find). I had a screenshot of the page, but imgur is down today so I can't link it.
    - nailer 15y ago
      Actually, apparently it's 12 months until you can no longer download the OS again: "Be kindly informed that the availability of the software download, purchased at the Microsoft Store, is limited to one year. Please understand that as you placed your order more than one year ago, Microsoft Store does not have access to your order and cannot reset the download link."
waffle_ss 15y ago
Seems like a pirated .iso would be a great place to deliver malicious code to Ring 0, hiding itself from the kernel and becoming essentially impossible to detect from the infected OS itself. I'm sure botnet creators are already well aware of this.
- deleted 15y ago
  [deleted]
  - rictic 15y ago
    Against what? Keep in mind these ISOs are already modified to get around the built-in copy protection in the stock version.
    - uxp 15y ago
      Not always. The most common and reliable piracy channel for Windows 7 right now is by updating your BIOS with a SLIC signature, and then installing Windows as a valid OEM copy. The installation ISOs can be SHA1 and MD5 hash checked against the same versions given out on Microsoft's TechNet site, because it's the same disk required to install any version of Windows 7. Granted, flashing your BIOS with random binaries floating around the internets is just as bad, if not worse, than installing random pirated binaries, but it's a lot easier* to check whether or not a 512KB dump is exactly the same as the version given out by the manufacturer's site with the exception of a section of non-executable address space than it is to check to see if the only modifications to a 4.2GB ISO are on activation-related components. For tomorrows readers: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BIOS#SLIC http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BIOS#SLIC * Easier, for people who know how to diff hexdumps and BIOS firmware...
  - waffle_ss 15y ago
    Wouldn't that only work for the Enterprise editions, which typically are quickly blocked from activation and updates by Microsoft after being leaked?
  - steve-howard 15y ago
nsxwolf 15y ago
Pirating makes sense when the pirates end up providing a superior product that the publisher won't provide at any price. This was true for video games, where the copy protection schemes often resulted in a bad experience for paying customers. But for an OS, having to enter a product key once doesn't seem to harm the experience as much as possibly getting a rooted kernel would. I think, in general, there aren't a lot of good reasons for grown-ups to not pay for the commercial software they want to use.
reidmain 15y ago
One of the greatest features of the Mac App Store is the ability to download the latest version of OS X Lion and then make a bootable image of it. I upgraded from Snow Leopard to Lion the day it came out but then had to do a clean install a couple of months later. Instead of using my out-of-date installer I downloaded the latest version of Lion and did a clean install. No waiting hours fro system updates because my install medium was old.
- jsz0 15y ago
  With newer machines (2011 MBA, Mini, maybe the iMac too?) you can even start the OS install straight from the boot loader. It basically net boots the Lion Recovery image and then proceeds with downloading/installing the OS. Pretty slick.
paulhauggis 15y ago
The problem is that it will never be enough. Even if Microsoft gave you everything to you exact specification and only charged $20/license, there would still be a group of people trying to defend piracy. Just look at the Android/Iphone app market. 99 cent apps are still not convenient or cheap enough for many users, so they pirate it. This is why I feel that all of these excuses are bullshit.
- RickHull 15y ago
  > The problem is that it will never be enough. Eh, it will never be enough for 100% of the users, sure -- there will always be some percentage of pure leeches. But this guy seems pretty reasonable. Enough for him seems like a good threshold for generating revenue from your userbase.
- masklinn 15y ago
  > there would still be a group of people trying to defend piracy. Of course, just as you'll always find DRM apologists who find Ubisoft's insanity still isn't enough. That's not really a segment of the population worth discussing with though, since they won't buy either way (either because they don't want to, or because they just don't have the money, I was once that impoverished student). What you can rely on are numbers and the results of those who thought convenience was a major reason[0] for piracy and tried to fix it. And what do you find out? That Steam and iTunes turn out to make money. Who'd have thought? > This is why I feel that all of these excuses are bullshit. Oh, bad apples are sufficient to dismiss out of hand anything that comes even remotely close to something they could say? Well I guess you can trivially be dismissed as well, then. [0] preempting your strawman, I did not write "the only reason".
twodayslate 15y ago
I am buying my next copy of Windows. You can get a copy really cheap now if you look hard enough (less than $100) through MSDNAA or through another student organization. For me, peace of mind is worth the price.
- cgoddard 15y ago
  The discount is a nice thing for students, but there are plenty of non-students in the US and especially other parts of the world where dropping a few hundred dollars on software that makes their computer work is a major burden. Given the large distribution of the Windows OS (this isn't boutique software with a small customer base), it really doesn't make much sense that it's so expensive. If the price was lowered significantly ($50 maybe?), I think MS would see piracy numbers go down and sales go up more than enough for them to remain profitable.
MatthewB 15y ago
These are great points and a good portion of piraters do so for these exact reasons. There are always going to be people who steal content/apps instead of paying for them but I am sure more than a few people pirate purely because it is a better user experience than what is currently offered. TV shows are a great example. I cut my cable about a year ago and haven't looked back since. I refuse to pay a premium for channels packaged together that I never watch. Currently, I use a combination of Netflix, Hulu Plus, Amazon Prime, Apple TV, and Zune Marketplace to fill my content needs. They provide a great user experience but the pricing structure/availability is lacking. Most shows available on Prime, Apple Tv, Zune are only available for purchase. What if I don't want to purchase them? Why can't I rent TV shows just like I rent movies? I have never been one to purchase and own content since I usually don't watch things more than once. I pay to rent movies all the time from Apple TV and Zune via Xbox. Hulu Plus is great, but they have a fraction of the content I would like to watch. Basically, there's not a perfect solution yet but I refuse to go back to cable. Here's what I would like to see: 1. Charge me per view, don't sell me the content to own. 2. If the margin is too thin for the rental model, throw an ad in there...I won't mind. (Hulu plus does this) 3. Let the content producers sell their content directly to me to increase margin. This can be done by the content producers creating apps for Xbox, Roku, etc. 4. Make all previous seasons of shows available to me for rental to increase revenue. 5. Use these awesome new technologies to create deeper experiences/interactions with the content, which will open up new revenue streams.
- coob 15y ago
  Apple tried rental of TV shows. They shuttered it: http://allthingsd.com/20110826/apple-pulls-the-plug-on-tv-rentals/ http://allthingsd.com/20110826/apple-pulls-the-plug-on-tv-re...
  - mattmanser 15y ago
    But look at the price point. Originally $1.99 per episode to just rent it. Even $0.99 sounds a lot to me. That's almost $50 for an entire series. What's the average amount of time someone would spend watching TV series per night? An episode of this, an episode of that, 3 or 4 times a week. Suddenly you're spending vastly more than cable. That's more than a modern box set will cost you, e.g. Boardwalk Empire, just released is selling for $40 on Amazon. Yet they spent $5million per episode, that's a lot of views to just break even, plus the server hosting costs and vendor marketplace cut to make. The whole thing is overly complex, per item rental is too complicated, a fractured marketplace makes subscriptions poor, the time drip model that studios and channels used to use is dying, but they won't let it go. I think it'll be 5 to 10 years before we finally see a decent resolution to this where actually paying is less hassle than piracy.
trotsky 15y ago
Windows activation is shockingly easy. Enter your key and when you go online it verifies it. If you're not connected to the internet make a 5 minute phone call. If you don't want to do that, no problem - there is no need to activate for up to 180 days. Really don't want to activate? No problem - it'll just turn your screen black and announce it's unlicensed software. It seems the author's only significant complaint is that they don't provide him with updated slipstreams to download. It's true - he'd have to make them himself with the free tools they provide. Maybe they should provide public updated slipstreams, but this hardly seems like a valid reason to refuse to pay for the software.
- sp332 15y ago
  I've tried 3 or 4 times, but I never figured out how to make a slipstream of Win7. It seems more complex than with XP.
- dchest 15y ago
  Online activation works only a certain number of times, and then you'll have to make a call. In my experience, this call took more than 5 minutes, and they asked a few none-of-their-business questions that made me think that I'm asking for their permission to please let me reinstall Windows once again. This was a few years ago with Windows XP, in Russia.
- ChiperSoft 15y ago
  Many other Microsoft products will not install on a copy of Windows that hasn't been activated. This includes all the Live apps and I think Office. I think it also restricts access to Software Update to only critical patches (been a while since I tried without activation).
  - rjbond3rd 15y ago
    Yes, and also Windows Security Essentials. A family member has a legit retail copy which failed to activate, and just lives with the degraded experience. Quite a contrast with other OS's.
- hrktb 15y ago
tgrass 15y ago
#7 on the front page of Hacker News. And there's confusion as to why SOPA is being considered by Congress.
joejohnson 15y ago
This is another example of companies pushing away would-be paying customers. This dumb logic has been the music industries policy for a while now; every person brought to trail for piracy was a potential customer or fan of the artist whose music they were pirating.
ChuckMcM 15y ago
I share the pain this guy experiences. I had Age of Empires 3 which would not run on my machine, period, because it didn't recognize the CD Rom driver and, as Microsoft explained, it might be a 'virtual' CD ROM and that would violate the terms of service. And even though it wasn't and didn't I could never run their software on that machine. Thus the who piracy economic argument is broken in three ways: 1) Folks who pirate software won't pay full price, sometimes they won't pay any price. So the economic 'loss' from piracy is either '0' or the area under the curve described by units pirated vs actual purchase price. The loss is 0 if you use the reasoning that if there were perfect piracy prevention, none of these people would have paid for the retail version. 2) The cost of protection adds additional production costs (printing unique product code stickers and adding them) adding additional steps to boxing/shipping, adding additional activation software and its testing. 3) The additional cost of support when legitimate users like this guy call support to have a human you're paying anywhere between 10 and 25/hr to 'solve' this persons install/operation problems. Folks who have done the math, with real numbers (and Lotus comes to mind), determine that they earn more money by not including DRM on the product. When Lotus first announced they were removing DRM from their 1-2-3 product they mentioned that nothing they had done had ever slowed down the availability of pirated versions but had added additional support burdens every time.
- 6ren 15y ago
  Just had a thought on seeing your point 1): Part of the value some people buy is exclusivity. If others can get it for free, it reduces this aspect of its value.
  - cgoddard 15y ago
    How does exclusivity add any value to a piece of software? The utility and productivity that I get out of a piece of software is in no way influenced by how anyone else obtained it. Sure, I might be bitter that I didn't also break the law and obtain an illegal free copy of my software, but that's really just sour grapes. And in business if the value I'm able to produce with software is governed more by my exclusive ownership than my skill with it and other professional skills, then it's probably a good idea to find another line of work.
andrest 15y ago
This was the case for music for a long time (still is, but to a lesser extent) before iTunes came along. Downloading music through Napster, Limewire or BitTorrent was simply easier and more effortless. Even though people were willing to pay, they didn't because that would have required more effort to do so.
Too 15y ago
This is why i will always save a copy of my windows xp enterprise edition cd. It's xp, which is still decent enough, and it doesn't require any activation, as opposed to the home/pro-editions. In case apocalypse happens (ehum, my ISP goes down for 24h) i know i can still get a computer up and running without problem if i have to.
- nextparadigms 15y ago
  Is that legal? One of the reasons MPAA/RIAA are pissing everyone off and have lost all credibility is that they have helped write and pass many copyright related laws that make even the most natural things to do illegal. They are so out of touch with reality.
kenneth_chau 15y ago
http://windows.microsoft.com/en-US/windows/shop/download-windows-7 http://windows.microsoft.com/en-US/windows/shop/download-win...
danudey 15y ago
The result has been the same for as long as Windows has had serial keys: Pirates find a way around them, they share keys, they disable activation, they patch files, they block hostnames in their hosts files. Regular users jump through hoops, have activation issues, lose their discs, need to phone in, etc. I'm anti-piracy in general, but whenever I install Windows 7 I always bypass the activation because I've had too many problems going legit. Likewise with Photoshop. At a previous company, we had a license that would let us install on up to five machines. At some point, we hit that limit and couldn't activate it. The confusing thing was that we only had three machines running it (the main user's desktop, her laptop, and another coworker's laptop). What we realized was that we'd reinstalled her laptop and the coworker's laptop recently, and both of those machines were still activated. When we called Adobe, they pointed us to a KB article on how to de-activate a Photoshop install, but that requires that it still be installed and working. Adobe said that they couldn't actually de-activate those machines. After some arguing back and forth, they agreed to add another machine to our account (so now we have six machines registered, four with it installed, and two using it concurrently). Now, every time we reformat a machine, we have to call them again because no one remembers to de-register Photoshop before they reformat a user's machine. iTunes lets you register five computers, and if you hit the limit, de-register them all to start over again. How hard is that?
schoudha 15y ago
You don't have to use Windows. The best way to protest is by using another product. Claiming that you have the moral authority to pirate it is just wrong, doing so re-enforces the need for MSFT to have even stricter anti-piracy measures.
baby 15y ago
Bought windows XP. Lost the CD. Had to pirate it. Bought windows 7 online. Had to download it through windows special download manager which took ages, then gave me some exec that I couldn't burn on a CD... I had to pirate it.
maurits 15y ago
Although I don't find MS to be the worst of all suppliers, it is yet an other prime example how companies fail to grasp that the only way they will ever compete with pirated content (be it right or wrong) is by service and by service only. The pirated price is already unbeatable and shamefully, its service is arguably better. A bit of a rant, but I am getting a bit tired that, still as we enter 2012, what does the paying customer get for his troubles? You don't live in country xx? You can't see/listen/buy online content yy. Although definitely in music and games there has been progress, I could still add hundreds of more examples. And what currently is the envisioned answer to this flawed business model? A set of laws that will inevitably alter some of our more dear democratic principles. Not to mention the economic fallout. On a side note, I can't help wondering my thoughts to the teen-sex debates in the US, where some people hopelessly cling to abstinence measures which in theory, work fine. Whereas in practice, there seems to be quiet some empirical evidence that young people, well, just do it.
kyriakos 15y ago
I'm actually pirating the version of windows i am using to write this. I bought this laptop which came with a super bloated version of windows 7 64 home edition. no media was provided. you can create your own but it includes the bloatware that comes with it originally installed which defeats the puprose. therefore i went to my favorite torrent site and download windows 7 64 bit home edition and installed it. i know its not exactly microsoft's fault their os gets so much bloat.. but the experience i was getting from new machine was nowhere near the one i am getting after the clean install.
ubuntuftw 15y ago
I, too, am getting really tired of this. It's not just Microsoft though. It's a lot of different companies. Right now, I'm in the middle of an epic battle with Adobe to get a refund. I bought an educational version of the CS3 master collection back in 2007 when I was in college. I tried to upgrade it because a chat representative said I could, but they were wrong. After calling their support line 10 times, spending 2-3 hours of my life either on hold or talking to them, being told twice they would call me in X hours and them not calling, they have still refused to honor the deal. It has been the worst customer service experience of my life. At this point, it's up to some committee at Adobe to decide whether I should get my refund. Like, really? It's that hard of a decision? You told me X when X wasn't true. Give me my money back! Quit being tools. Anyways, I'm hoping I get it. It's a lost opportunity for them though. They could have said, "Hey, we screwed up. Here are three licenses. We value your business and hope you'll stay a loyal customer." Then, they could have kept my money, and kept me as a customer. But that's not what they did. Going forward, I really don't think I'll be buying Adobe products anymore. Not because their products are bad. It's that they're over-priced and their customer service sucks.
andrewfelix 15y ago
Disaster recovery is much easier with a legitimate windows licence. Both in terms of having the original recovery disk, and support. There are subtle issues with pirated installations that can cause serious issues when things start to go wrong. (Speaking from experience)
WettowelReactor 15y ago
I dont know why they do this for their client OS but for server OS you can get a free evaluation download of any server product and activate it with a purchased key, no muss no fuss. Also using the provided download manager I have never seen speed issues with these downloads. As far as phone activation, which we have to do for several sites without internet access, the process is a bit long but not nearly as tedious as described. I am admittedly against DRM but if anyone comes close to doing it right its Microsoft on their OS software.
GigabyteCoin 15y ago
These are all valid points, aligned with many of the views being upvoted today. However, I'd just like to point something out. According to this article and many others, we all "pirate stuff" because it's "easier than the paid model"... well, the same goes for driving a car. I would much rather just walk into my underground parking lot, hotwire a car, and ditch it once I got to my destination. But, I have morals. I am not likening stealing a car to copyright infringement, only pointing out the reasoning that "I pirate because it's easier to do so" isn't really a moral/valid point. It's easier for me to kill you instantly with my gun than it is for me to reason with you about a topic I don't care to reason about, too.
- Drbble 15y ago
  Killing only easy in the absence of social and legal pressure, and in our instincts to not harm members of our "tribe"
zanst 15y ago
Seriously, you should start to support free Operating Systems instead of loose your time with Microsoft, pirating it or not.
samstave 15y ago
>"Why can't I just enter my product key and download an updated ISO with slipstreamed service packs? " This is why i still use the MSDN account from many employers ago... YOU CAN DO THIS with MSDN -- Why not make the MSDN model the way everyone receives their copy. Also, stop selling me CDs or DVDs - put them on USB sticks.
asmosoinio 15y ago
The site seems down. Do we need a mirroring service to help with "the HN effect"? Or just people to fix their sites?
billpatrianakos 15y ago
This is laughable! User gets pissed by activation system. User does the exact thing that causes the activation to not only exist but become more infuriating as time goes on. How about you either deal with it or not use Windows. If its that much of a pain then there's no reason to use it. Come on. How do we not see the blatant excuse to pirate something here?
- cgoddard 15y ago
  What's more laughable is that a minority decide to pirate a piece of software, and everyone gets punished. No, actually, in large part only the people who chose not to pirate get punished. How far does it have to go before people realize the whole strategy is absurd?
akg 15y ago
Plain and simple, the existence of piracy is not due to the lack of legislation but due to market failure. I find that many people are more than happy to pay for good service and good products -- even if there are cheaper/free alternatives.
dspillett 15y ago
This is not how to show them, nor is it a way to justify piracy. Unless you really can't live without the next version of Windows, don't use it at all. Keep with the current version for as long as you can (I'm still on XP on the only Windows machine I have) or switch to an alternative (this may be the route I take when I next rebuild). I'll be rebuilding that desktop machine at some point this year and what-ever OS goes on the new build I hope will not need reinstalling for a few years (so I'll have to upgrade from XP as it drops out of security update support early in 2014). I'm trying to decide to go for Windows 7, or just go completely Linux - currently the Linux option is winning in my mind. Pretty much the only reason I still run Windows on this home desktop is games. I use OpenOffice for my own documents, and when I need access to MS Office, Visual Studio, and so forth from here I simply VPN+RDC into my machine at the office these days. The rub is that lately I've not been playing that much (I've not had time) and there aren't any games in the near future that I could name as being something I'm waiting for (I'm done waiting for HL?EP3 - if they release it before I leave Windows-land then I'll pre-order, if not then they'll only get a sale out of me if it runs on Linux fine), with PC gaming apparently going in the "beg and jump through hoops or we won't let you play" direction (http://games.slashdot.org/story/12/01/17/1838237/ubisoft-has-windows-style-hardware-based-drm-for-games http://games.slashdot.org/story/12/01/17/1838237/ubisoft-has...) I can see myself simply refusing to buy any new games from the major publishers even if I do keep Windows, and most of the games I have played much of recently could probably be implemented in browsers soon enough (if not already) at which point the choice of underlying OS becomes irrelevant. So my position is: if I buy Windows 7 in the next six months it may well be the last Windows license I personally purchase. If I don't, then XP will have been (unless you count the Windows 7 Starter license that came with my netbook but currently remains unused). Either way I won't pirate it: it is a buy or don't decision. Heck, if I decide to not keep up-to-date games wise (and decide that I'm not likely to be bothered by losing access to the games I've bought previously) then I'll not only save £80 for the Windows license but I could save a chunk getting a less flashy GFX card too (I'm only upgrading that in this build to get a card with 3 or more outputs that can be used concurrently). Pirating will just tells them that you want their platform but don't want to pay, using something else tells them that you can live without them and if they want you not to live without them then there are things they need to change.
- 15y ago
ilitirit 15y ago
I've got several legitimate Windows licenses. I tried to install it on my dad's computer but I had to leave before the installation completed. I returned a few days later to activate it but somehow a virus managed to infect it. I removed the virus, but Windows just refused to activate with a LEGAL KEY. I tried activating by phone and I received an activation key but it didn't work either (permissions error or something). So I just did the sensible thing and installed a version that I found on TPB. Seriously Microsoft, drop the activation scheme. It's not necessary and causes nothing but frustration for your end users.
steder 15y ago
I think the author is missing the point. Microsoft doesn't really care about the license fee. Your lifetime value to them as a consumer of Windows specific services, digital media, and software is much more valuable than the license fees you'll pay. On a related note why bother to use Windows if you don't plan on purchasing other Windows-only software? Is the author also planning to pirate Visual Studio and the like as well? If no Microsoft software is being used why not try Linux or Mac?
razzaj 15y ago
I disagree totally with the logic the article is following. If you do not like Microsoft's products and services (I don't) that is totally acceptable, and i might add understandable, deal with other software vendors ! I do not understand the logic saying "I hate your service and so i will just steal the product". If you want to make your point just go ahead and complain, send a written letter move to another vendor (I Have). Stealing, And i will call it that because it is stealing, is not a legitimate nor a logical reaction to crappy service. The entire internet philosophy, IMO, was build on trust and a certain code of honor if i may say (at the risk of sounding corny) breaking that breaks the internet. Imagine people just screwing up Wikipedia because they think Jimmy Wales did something wrong in their opinion or because an article of their got removed or whatever. Piracy has always been, and will always be, a thing of the internet. think of it as a wicked charm. I will not encourage eradicating it. To be honest i have used pirated software to evaluate when vendors wont offer evaluation options. But then i would go and buy the damn license, because: 1 - it is the right thing to do, regardless. 2 - If i like something, paying for it will support the vendor to continue on making the stuff i like. I personally do not like the way Microsoft does business, i dont like their products and i think they are arrogant pricks but if i need to use windows (god forbid) i will still pay for the damn license.

341 points by jcnnghm 15y ago

valverde 15y ago

"Why do pirates have a better experience than customers?" This pretty much sums it up. I couldn't agree more.

majorlazer 15y ago
In many cases, like downloading movies, I agree. But with Windows, I couldn't disagree more. I used to pirate every version of Windows I owned, back in the days of Windows 98 and up to Windows XP it was a breeze. Starting around Windows XP SP3, it got a bit more difficult. It was easy to pirate, but after a few weeks/months of use, you get the Genuine Advantage warning. With Windows 7, it is even worse. So I decided to purchase my first legitimate copy of Windows. I haven't looked back. It is so much easier and I don't waste my time re-cracking my Windows installation every month. It is well worth the price. Since then I have also acquired a legitimate version of Office 2010, even though I got it heavily discounted for students, back in the Windows XP days, I would have laughed at the thought of buying $100+ software. And anytime I upgrade hardware or even want to move my install to another computer, the activation is so fast and easy. I don't see how anyone could make the claim that pirating Windows is easier than installing a legitimate copy.
- reidmain 15y ago
  I can think of a bunch of reasons why people make the claim seeing as how the article is about that. 1) You will always have an outdated installation disc so whenever you want to do a install you're stuck with hours of system updates. 2) Losing your install disc means your SOL. 3) The activation process is not always painless. Whenever you have to call their activation line you are wasting time.
- Karunamon 15y ago
  For the majority of people, windows activation and windows genuine "advantage" works exactly as advertised. However, when you get on the wrong side of it, it is a pain in the ass of Lovecraftian proportions. I don't know if it's my luck, choice in hardware, or what, but I've had perfectly valid (retail!) keys start throwing WGA errors after working fine for a few months. After spending literally hours on the phone with someone who speaks broken english, I took my crippled XP install (this was back in the pre service-pack 2 days where failing activation meant you got locked out after a few minutes), went to a torrent site, and downloaded an activator. 2 hours (spent on the phone in a fruitless endeavor with the best of Indian tech support) and 5 minutes (spent downloading and running a crack) later, I finally was able to use my bought and paid for software. After that, I pulled down an ISO with the service packs and cracks and other goodies slipstreamed in (XP Ultimate Edition by Johnny, still exists out there somewhere), burned it to a disc, and haven't used "legitimate" channels since. Microsoft does not have my permission to use my CPU cycles and power to inflate their antipiracy metrics.
- xtracto 15y ago
  Nope, in windows 7 activating via pirate methods is still easier than activating via normal methods. The pirate, illegal method of activating involves downloading a program, 1 double click (to open said program) and 1 click (to run the activation). I wont say which program is it because I do not condone piracy, but it is widespread in the internet. I agree that Microsoft should remove all anti-piracy stuff in their products. It only makes their products more expensive.
reidmain 15y ago
This is the scenario with most mediums (TV, movies, etc). Video games and music appear to be the only ones who have solved this with solutions like Steam, Good old Games, iTunes, Amazon Music. Netflix, and the like, are a good step forward but they still suffer from lack of content which leads people right back to pirating.
_sh 15y ago
It's only a 'better experience' if they're not caught. Bank robbers have a 'better experience' of a bank if they're not caught too.
- cgoddard 15y ago
  Why are customers being made to jump through hoops that do practically nothing to deter actual infringement?

jiggy2011 15y ago

I don't use pirated versions of Windows so I don't know the answer to this but I would assume it's a bad idea because: Your trusting a .ISO image from a random website, how do you know there is not time bombed malware pre-installed? Do you still have access to Windows update? If so for how long, I assume it can't be difficult for Microsoft to figure out who is using it illegitimately since some versions must be using either the same keys or keys that have never been issued to a copy of Windows that they have sold?

davidcollantes 15y ago
[...] "You're trusting..." [...] I agree with that line, correction added. :-)
- davidcollantes 15y ago
  To the two minuses (and the potential others): love you too. :-)
w1ntermute 15y ago
> Your trusting a .ISO image from a random website, how do you know there is not time bombed malware pre-installed? You don't have to use torrents. You can get a direct download of vanilla Windows 7 ISO's hosted by Microsoft: http://www.mydigitallife.info/official-windows-7-sp1-iso-from-digital-river/ http://www.mydigitallife.info/official-windows-7-sp1-iso-fro... > Do you still have access to Windows update? If so for how long, I assume it can't be difficult for Microsoft to figure out who is using it illegitimately since some versions must be using either the same keys or keys that have never been issued to a copy of Windows that they have sold? Nope, there's a workaround built into Windows because the OEMs strongarmed MS into adding it. You can get a piece of software called the Windows Loader that will activate Windows using this workaround with just one click and a reboot: http://forums.mydigitallife.info/threads/24901-Windows-Loader-Current-release-information http://forums.mydigitallife.info/threads/24901-Windows-Loade...
- jiggy2011 15y ago

joebadmo 15y ago

While I'm entirely sympathetic to the author's DRM plight, buying the software and getting the pirate's cleaner experience are not mutually exclusive. If you want the best experience and a clean conscience (I'm assuming here you think piracy is wrong, since you've bought so many other copies of MS software), buy the software, then install a pirated a copy. I usually do this with new PCs that have Windows pre-installed, so I don't have to deal with crapware.

jiggy2011 15y ago
Would this still be legal though? You are still using an unlicensed copy regardless of whether or not you happen to additionally own another copy. For all they know you might install your licensed copy on another computer later and not remove your unlicensed one.
- joebadmo 15y ago
  I have no idea whether it's technically legal, actually. But I'm working off two premises: 1. The author doesn't care about legality, since he's finally resorting to piracy anyway. 2. The author would like to compensate MS for the use of a Windows license. If those are true, then buying a copy but actually using a pirate copy does what the author wants.
  - DanBC 15y ago
    Eh, the author wants to pay MS money for the product, but also to be able to use the product without jumping through a bunch of stupid pointless frustrating hoops. MS insists these hoops are needed. The author, after years of giving MS money and jumping through hoops decides to stop giving them money, and stop jumping through the hoops. The author is trying to tell MS, in the post and with the lost sale, that the anti-piracy measures are totally counter-productive, and have pushed a paying customer into a pirate.
    - pbhjpbhj 15y ago
      The author says: >"if I have to go through the hassle of pirating it to get a working copy, I will not be paying for it" Yet his whole argument up to then has been how much easier 'pirating' the OS is. In short he just doesn't want to pay. If it were about ease of use he'd send them the money somehow.

cosmez 15y ago

that and Windows its 50 times the minimum wage here in mexico.

noss 15y ago

I understand the resentment, but the right course of action must surely be to not upgrade. Instead go with an alternative, such as Mac OS or Linux.

jcnnghm 15y ago
OS X is actually my primary operating system. There is some software I still need Windows for though, like Photoshop and Quickbooks Enterprise. I guess I could upgrade that software, but I am not paying thousands for new features I won't use. I had to reactivate because Bootcamp is a pain in the ass, so I removed the partition, installed VirtualBox, and installed on that. It activated fine, and has deactivated itself twice now, necessitating phone calls each time. I have probably been through this process 20 times now, with family computers, Windows XP reinstalls, and the like.
- ROFISH 15y ago
  At least for Parallels, if you read the instructions, it says the first time you start up Windows Boot Camp in the VM, do not activate until it has fully installed Parallel Tools and it's drivers. Something in those drivers, which I presume is legal, prevents the infinite activation loop.
- squidsoup 15y ago
  In an effort to expedite your transition away from Windows entirely, may I suggest Pixelmator (http://www.pixelmator.com/ http://www.pixelmator.com/) as a Photoshop alternative? It is a pleasure to use and has all of the core features of PS (compositing layers, tools etc).
  - jcnnghm 15y ago
    I have Pixelmator, and I think it's a good 60% solution, but it's no Photoshop. For example, the other day I fired it up to make constrained rectangular marquee selections, and it can't do that. That doesn't sound like a big deal, but I wanted to select at a specific aspect ratio because I needed an image to fit in a specific box. There are lots of little things like that. Not to mention I've been using Photoshop since the 90s, so I'm very proficient with it, it does every single thing I need, and I already paid a lot for it. There really is not a good substitute for Quickbooks Enterprise. And I forgot Regex Buddy. I downloaded Patterns off the App Store, but it's a poor substitute. Regexes aren't pretty, but if you are hacking on something a quick regex can do a lot for a little. EDIT: I just re-read this, and thought it sounded a little too negative toward Pixelmator. I think being a good 60% solution in relation to Photoshop is a huge accomplishment, and that Pixelmator is great software. It is absolutely worth the money. It is a very competent intermediate image editor, and would be $30 well spent for anyone. The criticism is mainly directed toward the lack of some esoteric advanced features, and my curmudgeonly desire to have it work exactly like Photoshop, since that is how I have edited images for the last dozen years.

powertower 15y ago

If you're activating MS products by entering "100-digit" activation keys into your telephone, you're already doing something wrong... Or are a complete edge/outliner case.

jcnnghm 15y ago
Says the guy that doesn't have any family members that persistently fubar their systems, necessitating enough reinstalls to trip the activation limit.
- powertower 15y ago
  If your family members are destroying the OS, the best solution is to either run in a VM which is set to not persist changes (via VMWare or the free options), or to boot from a VHD file for your other members (keep a clean and activated copy that you can revert to). There are many options to solve this issue (ex: the native VHD boot, VirtualPC, HyperV). Telling Microsoft to remove activation is a knee-jerk reaction that helps no one. You can even run Linux as the Host OS. I write and sell software, and activation is absolutely critical and responsible for at least half my revenue.
  - theBobMcCormick 15y ago
    That sounds like an heck of a lot of extra work just to deal with Microsoft's anti-piracy activation system. IMHO, your "answer" just reinforces the original author's point. Why should legitimate paying customers have to deal with all of these workaround and annoyances? Why should legitimate customers have to endure being treated like potential criminals? Especially when these activation systems aren't stopping the pirates!!!!!!!
    - powertower 15y ago
      He's not dealing with Microsoft's anti-piracy activation system as much as he's dealing with issues about family members. And your point about MS not knowing what it's doing... If the activation system was useless, and had no effect on revenue, it would be gone the next day. I've been a legitimate customer since Windows 3.1, and I've only had to activate by phone 1 time. It was painless.

sp332 15y ago

Why can't I just enter my product key and download an updated ISO with slipstreamed service packs? This is especially odd, since you can do exactly that with a one-year TechNet subscription. https://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/subscriptions/buy/hh442910 https://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/subscriptions/buy/hh4429... So it's not like they don't have the infrastructure ready.

eli 15y ago

I wouldn't recommend you try this at your startup. Some day, a potential investor or partner is going to audit your licenses and it'll be pretty embarrassing if you're way out of compliance.

frankwiles 15y ago
Might seem like I just hate MS, but honestly I would be just as upset as a potential investor or partner that they were running Windows in the first place. Licensed or not. Unless of course your startup was focused somehow on Windows development, users, etc. where it would obviously be necessary. Startups are hard enough as it is, no need to make them harder.
- gm 15y ago
  Hmm, if you have an investor that dismisses a platform summarily because of his own biases, then the company is better off without that investor. The investor should ask "and why are you using that platform?" and then make an evaluation based on the answer. Anything less and you have a pretty bad investor. Best to keep away from such people.
- memnips 15y ago
  Microsoft Bizspark (http://www.microsoft.com/bizspark/ http://www.microsoft.com/bizspark/) gives startups that are less than 3 years old and earn less than $1M in annual revenue free MSDN Ultimate access. That means free access to all of MS software. It's actually a really amazing program.
  - robocat 15y ago
    The BizSpark program has limitations (although still a fantastic deal!). * AFAIK you are licenced to use the software for development and testing purposes ONLY. Not internal use (see the BizSpark FAQ, even though other BizSpark materials seem to imply otherwise). * Except you do get a production 2 proc SQL Server licence, and Windows Server licences... However you may not be able to use the licences with some hosting providers (due to their licences with Microsoft, or just unfamiliarity or complexity overhead). * The BizSpark websites are a time-wasting labyrinth whenever you must update anything (might have improved?). * There are so many catch-alls to prevent "misuse" of the licence, that it looks as though you can't legally use any of the software... although in spirit you can use it and Microsoft isn't going to chase you... (at least that was how I read the licences last time I looked but IANAL YMMV).

csomar 15y ago

Huh, seriously? I purchased a laptop with a genuine Windows 7 version because of this particular issue. I'll spend weeks to find a relatively good Windows copy. The average seeded copy of Windows on the pirate bay or the likes is crappy. Cracks sometimes doesn't work. Sometimes the copy comes with a load of crappy software. Sometimes the cracker changes the Windows theme (not sure why he is doing so). And sometimes everything goes smooth until some day I get a problem because my version is not genuine. I don't install my OS on a daily basis. My average Windows OS install keep up with me for 3-5 years. I wouldn't be bothered to spend some time activating the software. So far, the activations for my MS products was easy, fast and simple.

gm 15y ago
True. There comes a point where the time investment is more expensive than just buying a legal copy and installing it. And activating it. I've never had as hard a time activating stuff at the OP, though. When I buy a new machine I always order the restore disks (why do Mfg's think it's ok to not include these and charge customers for obtaining them?), and I've yet to run into restore disks that automatically install the crapware that came on the hard disk.
re_todd 15y ago
I recently purchased a laptop with Windows 7 at a national chain, and there is no CD. If I set up a dual boot, which I normally do, I'll be forced to get a pirated version. There is supposedly a way to reinstall from a hidden drive or partition, but that would take over the entire drive. I always wanted to be legit, but I'm not going to pay again for something that I legally already have.

melling 15y ago

If you don't like their product or policies, don't use it. If you use it then you should pay for it. Use Linux, a BSD Unix, or a Mac. People who pirate Microsoft products don't really hurt Microsoft, they hurt the rest of the competition.

polemic 15y ago
Don't get me wrong, Microsoft isn't helping themselves with this, but @melling has it on the head. In the current climate, it's this kind of blog post that undoes a lot of the good work people are doing around protesting SOPA/PIPA. For those with a very simple view of copyright, saying you're going to 'steal Microsoft's IP' because you've been inconvenienced is just evidence that Something Must Be Done and the proposed law is a Good Thing.
jarrett 15y ago
Certain applications that professionals need are only available on Windows. Most games are as well. Even for software with Mac/*nix versions, a person may have quite a bit of money tied up in Windows-only licenses. I'm not commenting on whether pirating Windows is ethical. I'm just pointing out that sometimes you'll have to ditch a lot of software to ditch Windows.
- Groxx 15y ago
  You're just reinforcing their argument. By not using the competition, you're ensuring the market for those products on the competition's OS doesn't exist. It's actively strengthening Microsoft's hold on the markets you frequent.
  - jcnnghm 15y ago
    OK. The primary application that I need Windows for is Quickbooks Enterprise. I also still use my Windows Photoshop license since it was expensive, and not transferrable to OS X. My primary operating system is already OS X, and I only use Debian Stable on servers. I run Windows in a VM when I need those application, and only when I need those applications. How would you suggest replacing Quickbooks Enterprise? Do I just stop keeping accounting records? What about the 13 years of records that are already in the accounting system? Should I throw those out? What about inventory and accountant's copies? Will you train my customer's accounting firm to use some other package? What about the inventory database?

sciurus 15y ago

If you already have a windows license but lost your installation media, you can download it without resorting to piracy. The link below has the URLs for the retail ISOs hosted by Amazon. http://www.mydigitallife.info/windows-7-iso-x86-and-x64-official-direct-download-links-ultimate-professional-and-home-premium/ http://www.mydigitallife.info/windows-7-iso-x86-and-x64-offi...

gm 15y ago
Lost installation media not at all the point of the post. Read it first.
nailer 15y ago
Microsoft Store officially tells you that your download time has expired after you purchase a Windows license, and wish to re-download / re-install more than 3 months after your purchase. The official solution is to buy an additional copy of the Windows license which will provide you with a new download URL. I knows this because I complained to the @microsoftstore twitter account: after purchasing 2 copies of Windows (the crapware-loaded OEM version, the clean one from MS store) I had no intention of purchasing a third. For some reason they simply couldn't allow me a second download, and sent me a physical disc, which arrived about 6 weeks later, by which time a pirated Windows 7 was working fine. However
- fryguy 15y ago
  I've never had any problems with the copy of windows 7 I bought from the microsoft online store. I've had to redownload it two or three times now, and it's always been there (although the page is near impossible to find). I had a screenshot of the page, but imgur is down today so I can't link it.
  - nailer 15y ago
    Actually, apparently it's 12 months until you can no longer download the OS again: "Be kindly informed that the availability of the software download, purchased at the Microsoft Store, is limited to one year. Please understand that as you placed your order more than one year ago, Microsoft Store does not have access to your order and cannot reset the download link."

waffle_ss 15y ago

Seems like a pirated .iso would be a great place to deliver malicious code to Ring 0, hiding itself from the kernel and becoming essentially impossible to detect from the infected OS itself. I'm sure botnet creators are already well aware of this.

deleted 15y ago
[deleted]
- rictic 15y ago
  Against what? Keep in mind these ISOs are already modified to get around the built-in copy protection in the stock version.
  - uxp 15y ago
    Not always. The most common and reliable piracy channel for Windows 7 right now is by updating your BIOS with a SLIC signature, and then installing Windows as a valid OEM copy. The installation ISOs can be SHA1 and MD5 hash checked against the same versions given out on Microsoft's TechNet site, because it's the same disk required to install any version of Windows 7. Granted, flashing your BIOS with random binaries floating around the internets is just as bad, if not worse, than installing random pirated binaries, but it's a lot easier* to check whether or not a 512KB dump is exactly the same as the version given out by the manufacturer's site with the exception of a section of non-executable address space than it is to check to see if the only modifications to a 4.2GB ISO are on activation-related components. For tomorrows readers: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BIOS#SLIC http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BIOS#SLIC * Easier, for people who know how to diff hexdumps and BIOS firmware...
- waffle_ss 15y ago
  Wouldn't that only work for the Enterprise editions, which typically are quickly blocked from activation and updates by Microsoft after being leaked?
- steve-howard 15y ago

nsxwolf 15y ago

Pirating makes sense when the pirates end up providing a superior product that the publisher won't provide at any price. This was true for video games, where the copy protection schemes often resulted in a bad experience for paying customers. But for an OS, having to enter a product key once doesn't seem to harm the experience as much as possibly getting a rooted kernel would. I think, in general, there aren't a lot of good reasons for grown-ups to not pay for the commercial software they want to use.

reidmain 15y ago

One of the greatest features of the Mac App Store is the ability to download the latest version of OS X Lion and then make a bootable image of it. I upgraded from Snow Leopard to Lion the day it came out but then had to do a clean install a couple of months later. Instead of using my out-of-date installer I downloaded the latest version of Lion and did a clean install. No waiting hours fro system updates because my install medium was old.

jsz0 15y ago
With newer machines (2011 MBA, Mini, maybe the iMac too?) you can even start the OS install straight from the boot loader. It basically net boots the Lion Recovery image and then proceeds with downloading/installing the OS. Pretty slick.

paulhauggis 15y ago

The problem is that it will never be enough. Even if Microsoft gave you everything to you exact specification and only charged $20/license, there would still be a group of people trying to defend piracy. Just look at the Android/Iphone app market. 99 cent apps are still not convenient or cheap enough for many users, so they pirate it. This is why I feel that all of these excuses are bullshit.

RickHull 15y ago
> The problem is that it will never be enough. Eh, it will never be enough for 100% of the users, sure -- there will always be some percentage of pure leeches. But this guy seems pretty reasonable. Enough for him seems like a good threshold for generating revenue from your userbase.
masklinn 15y ago
> there would still be a group of people trying to defend piracy. Of course, just as you'll always find DRM apologists who find Ubisoft's insanity still isn't enough. That's not really a segment of the population worth discussing with though, since they won't buy either way (either because they don't want to, or because they just don't have the money, I was once that impoverished student). What you can rely on are numbers and the results of those who thought convenience was a major reason[0] for piracy and tried to fix it. And what do you find out? That Steam and iTunes turn out to make money. Who'd have thought? > This is why I feel that all of these excuses are bullshit. Oh, bad apples are sufficient to dismiss out of hand anything that comes even remotely close to something they could say? Well I guess you can trivially be dismissed as well, then. [0] preempting your strawman, I did not write "the only reason".

twodayslate 15y ago

I am buying my next copy of Windows. You can get a copy really cheap now if you look hard enough (less than $100) through MSDNAA or through another student organization. For me, peace of mind is worth the price.

cgoddard 15y ago
The discount is a nice thing for students, but there are plenty of non-students in the US and especially other parts of the world where dropping a few hundred dollars on software that makes their computer work is a major burden. Given the large distribution of the Windows OS (this isn't boutique software with a small customer base), it really doesn't make much sense that it's so expensive. If the price was lowered significantly ($50 maybe?), I think MS would see piracy numbers go down and sales go up more than enough for them to remain profitable.

MatthewB 15y ago

These are great points and a good portion of piraters do so for these exact reasons. There are always going to be people who steal content/apps instead of paying for them but I am sure more than a few people pirate purely because it is a better user experience than what is currently offered. TV shows are a great example. I cut my cable about a year ago and haven't looked back since. I refuse to pay a premium for channels packaged together that I never watch. Currently, I use a combination of Netflix, Hulu Plus, Amazon Prime, Apple TV, and Zune Marketplace to fill my content needs. They provide a great user experience but the pricing structure/availability is lacking. Most shows available on Prime, Apple Tv, Zune are only available for purchase. What if I don't want to purchase them? Why can't I rent TV shows just like I rent movies? I have never been one to purchase and own content since I usually don't watch things more than once. I pay to rent movies all the time from Apple TV and Zune via Xbox. Hulu Plus is great, but they have a fraction of the content I would like to watch. Basically, there's not a perfect solution yet but I refuse to go back to cable. Here's what I would like to see: 1. Charge me per view, don't sell me the content to own. 2. If the margin is too thin for the rental model, throw an ad in there...I won't mind. (Hulu plus does this) 3. Let the content producers sell their content directly to me to increase margin. This can be done by the content producers creating apps for Xbox, Roku, etc. 4. Make all previous seasons of shows available to me for rental to increase revenue. 5. Use these awesome new technologies to create deeper experiences/interactions with the content, which will open up new revenue streams.

coob 15y ago
Apple tried rental of TV shows. They shuttered it: http://allthingsd.com/20110826/apple-pulls-the-plug-on-tv-rentals/ http://allthingsd.com/20110826/apple-pulls-the-plug-on-tv-re...
- mattmanser 15y ago
  But look at the price point. Originally $1.99 per episode to just rent it. Even $0.99 sounds a lot to me. That's almost $50 for an entire series. What's the average amount of time someone would spend watching TV series per night? An episode of this, an episode of that, 3 or 4 times a week. Suddenly you're spending vastly more than cable. That's more than a modern box set will cost you, e.g. Boardwalk Empire, just released is selling for $40 on Amazon. Yet they spent $5million per episode, that's a lot of views to just break even, plus the server hosting costs and vendor marketplace cut to make. The whole thing is overly complex, per item rental is too complicated, a fractured marketplace makes subscriptions poor, the time drip model that studios and channels used to use is dying, but they won't let it go. I think it'll be 5 to 10 years before we finally see a decent resolution to this where actually paying is less hassle than piracy.

trotsky 15y ago

Windows activation is shockingly easy. Enter your key and when you go online it verifies it. If you're not connected to the internet make a 5 minute phone call. If you don't want to do that, no problem - there is no need to activate for up to 180 days. Really don't want to activate? No problem - it'll just turn your screen black and announce it's unlicensed software. It seems the author's only significant complaint is that they don't provide him with updated slipstreams to download. It's true - he'd have to make them himself with the free tools they provide. Maybe they should provide public updated slipstreams, but this hardly seems like a valid reason to refuse to pay for the software.

sp332 15y ago
I've tried 3 or 4 times, but I never figured out how to make a slipstream of Win7. It seems more complex than with XP.
dchest 15y ago
Online activation works only a certain number of times, and then you'll have to make a call. In my experience, this call took more than 5 minutes, and they asked a few none-of-their-business questions that made me think that I'm asking for their permission to please let me reinstall Windows once again. This was a few years ago with Windows XP, in Russia.
ChiperSoft 15y ago
Many other Microsoft products will not install on a copy of Windows that hasn't been activated. This includes all the Live apps and I think Office. I think it also restricts access to Software Update to only critical patches (been a while since I tried without activation).
- rjbond3rd 15y ago
  Yes, and also Windows Security Essentials. A family member has a legit retail copy which failed to activate, and just lives with the degraded experience. Quite a contrast with other OS's.
hrktb 15y ago

tgrass 15y ago

#7 on the front page of Hacker News. And there's confusion as to why SOPA is being considered by Congress.

joejohnson 15y ago

This is another example of companies pushing away would-be paying customers. This dumb logic has been the music industries policy for a while now; every person brought to trail for piracy was a potential customer or fan of the artist whose music they were pirating.

ChuckMcM 15y ago

I share the pain this guy experiences. I had Age of Empires 3 which would not run on my machine, period, because it didn't recognize the CD Rom driver and, as Microsoft explained, it might be a 'virtual' CD ROM and that would violate the terms of service. And even though it wasn't and didn't I could never run their software on that machine. Thus the who piracy economic argument is broken in three ways: 1) Folks who pirate software won't pay full price, sometimes they won't pay any price. So the economic 'loss' from piracy is either '0' or the area under the curve described by units pirated vs actual purchase price. The loss is 0 if you use the reasoning that if there were perfect piracy prevention, none of these people would have paid for the retail version. 2) The cost of protection adds additional production costs (printing unique product code stickers and adding them) adding additional steps to boxing/shipping, adding additional activation software and its testing. 3) The additional cost of support when legitimate users like this guy call support to have a human you're paying anywhere between 10 and 25/hr to 'solve' this persons install/operation problems. Folks who have done the math, with real numbers (and Lotus comes to mind), determine that they earn more money by not including DRM on the product. When Lotus first announced they were removing DRM from their 1-2-3 product they mentioned that nothing they had done had ever slowed down the availability of pirated versions but had added additional support burdens every time.

6ren 15y ago
Just had a thought on seeing your point 1): Part of the value some people buy is exclusivity. If others can get it for free, it reduces this aspect of its value.
- cgoddard 15y ago
  How does exclusivity add any value to a piece of software? The utility and productivity that I get out of a piece of software is in no way influenced by how anyone else obtained it. Sure, I might be bitter that I didn't also break the law and obtain an illegal free copy of my software, but that's really just sour grapes. And in business if the value I'm able to produce with software is governed more by my exclusive ownership than my skill with it and other professional skills, then it's probably a good idea to find another line of work.

andrest 15y ago

This was the case for music for a long time (still is, but to a lesser extent) before iTunes came along. Downloading music through Napster, Limewire or BitTorrent was simply easier and more effortless. Even though people were willing to pay, they didn't because that would have required more effort to do so.

Too 15y ago

This is why i will always save a copy of my windows xp enterprise edition cd. It's xp, which is still decent enough, and it doesn't require any activation, as opposed to the home/pro-editions. In case apocalypse happens (ehum, my ISP goes down for 24h) i know i can still get a computer up and running without problem if i have to.

nextparadigms 15y ago
Is that legal? One of the reasons MPAA/RIAA are pissing everyone off and have lost all credibility is that they have helped write and pass many copyright related laws that make even the most natural things to do illegal. They are so out of touch with reality.

kenneth_chau 15y ago

http://windows.microsoft.com/en-US/windows/shop/download-windows-7 http://windows.microsoft.com/en-US/windows/shop/download-win...

danudey 15y ago

The result has been the same for as long as Windows has had serial keys: Pirates find a way around them, they share keys, they disable activation, they patch files, they block hostnames in their hosts files. Regular users jump through hoops, have activation issues, lose their discs, need to phone in, etc. I'm anti-piracy in general, but whenever I install Windows 7 I always bypass the activation because I've had too many problems going legit. Likewise with Photoshop. At a previous company, we had a license that would let us install on up to five machines. At some point, we hit that limit and couldn't activate it. The confusing thing was that we only had three machines running it (the main user's desktop, her laptop, and another coworker's laptop). What we realized was that we'd reinstalled her laptop and the coworker's laptop recently, and both of those machines were still activated. When we called Adobe, they pointed us to a KB article on how to de-activate a Photoshop install, but that requires that it still be installed and working. Adobe said that they couldn't actually de-activate those machines. After some arguing back and forth, they agreed to add another machine to our account (so now we have six machines registered, four with it installed, and two using it concurrently). Now, every time we reformat a machine, we have to call them again because no one remembers to de-register Photoshop before they reformat a user's machine. iTunes lets you register five computers, and if you hit the limit, de-register them all to start over again. How hard is that?

schoudha 15y ago

You don't have to use Windows. The best way to protest is by using another product. Claiming that you have the moral authority to pirate it is just wrong, doing so re-enforces the need for MSFT to have even stricter anti-piracy measures.

baby 15y ago

Bought windows XP. Lost the CD. Had to pirate it. Bought windows 7 online. Had to download it through windows special download manager which took ages, then gave me some exec that I couldn't burn on a CD... I had to pirate it.

maurits 15y ago

Although I don't find MS to be the worst of all suppliers, it is yet an other prime example how companies fail to grasp that the only way they will ever compete with pirated content (be it right or wrong) is by service and by service only. The pirated price is already unbeatable and shamefully, its service is arguably better. A bit of a rant, but I am getting a bit tired that, still as we enter 2012, what does the paying customer get for his troubles? You don't live in country xx? You can't see/listen/buy online content yy. Although definitely in music and games there has been progress, I could still add hundreds of more examples. And what currently is the envisioned answer to this flawed business model? A set of laws that will inevitably alter some of our more dear democratic principles. Not to mention the economic fallout. On a side note, I can't help wondering my thoughts to the teen-sex debates in the US, where some people hopelessly cling to abstinence measures which in theory, work fine. Whereas in practice, there seems to be quiet some empirical evidence that young people, well, just do it.

kyriakos 15y ago

I'm actually pirating the version of windows i am using to write this. I bought this laptop which came with a super bloated version of windows 7 64 home edition. no media was provided. you can create your own but it includes the bloatware that comes with it originally installed which defeats the puprose. therefore i went to my favorite torrent site and download windows 7 64 bit home edition and installed it. i know its not exactly microsoft's fault their os gets so much bloat.. but the experience i was getting from new machine was nowhere near the one i am getting after the clean install.

ubuntuftw 15y ago

I, too, am getting really tired of this. It's not just Microsoft though. It's a lot of different companies. Right now, I'm in the middle of an epic battle with Adobe to get a refund. I bought an educational version of the CS3 master collection back in 2007 when I was in college. I tried to upgrade it because a chat representative said I could, but they were wrong. After calling their support line 10 times, spending 2-3 hours of my life either on hold or talking to them, being told twice they would call me in X hours and them not calling, they have still refused to honor the deal. It has been the worst customer service experience of my life. At this point, it's up to some committee at Adobe to decide whether I should get my refund. Like, really? It's that hard of a decision? You told me X when X wasn't true. Give me my money back! Quit being tools. Anyways, I'm hoping I get it. It's a lost opportunity for them though. They could have said, "Hey, we screwed up. Here are three licenses. We value your business and hope you'll stay a loyal customer." Then, they could have kept my money, and kept me as a customer. But that's not what they did. Going forward, I really don't think I'll be buying Adobe products anymore. Not because their products are bad. It's that they're over-priced and their customer service sucks.

andrewfelix 15y ago

Disaster recovery is much easier with a legitimate windows licence. Both in terms of having the original recovery disk, and support. There are subtle issues with pirated installations that can cause serious issues when things start to go wrong. (Speaking from experience)

WettowelReactor 15y ago

I dont know why they do this for their client OS but for server OS you can get a free evaluation download of any server product and activate it with a purchased key, no muss no fuss. Also using the provided download manager I have never seen speed issues with these downloads. As far as phone activation, which we have to do for several sites without internet access, the process is a bit long but not nearly as tedious as described. I am admittedly against DRM but if anyone comes close to doing it right its Microsoft on their OS software.

GigabyteCoin 15y ago

These are all valid points, aligned with many of the views being upvoted today. However, I'd just like to point something out. According to this article and many others, we all "pirate stuff" because it's "easier than the paid model"... well, the same goes for driving a car. I would much rather just walk into my underground parking lot, hotwire a car, and ditch it once I got to my destination. But, I have morals. I am not likening stealing a car to copyright infringement, only pointing out the reasoning that "I pirate because it's easier to do so" isn't really a moral/valid point. It's easier for me to kill you instantly with my gun than it is for me to reason with you about a topic I don't care to reason about, too.

Drbble 15y ago
Killing only easy in the absence of social and legal pressure, and in our instincts to not harm members of our "tribe"

zanst 15y ago

Seriously, you should start to support free Operating Systems instead of loose your time with Microsoft, pirating it or not.

samstave 15y ago

>"Why can't I just enter my product key and download an updated ISO with slipstreamed service packs? " This is why i still use the MSDN account from many employers ago... YOU CAN DO THIS with MSDN -- Why not make the MSDN model the way everyone receives their copy. Also, stop selling me CDs or DVDs - put them on USB sticks.

asmosoinio 15y ago

The site seems down. Do we need a mirroring service to help with "the HN effect"? Or just people to fix their sites?

billpatrianakos 15y ago

This is laughable! User gets pissed by activation system. User does the exact thing that causes the activation to not only exist but become more infuriating as time goes on. How about you either deal with it or not use Windows. If its that much of a pain then there's no reason to use it. Come on. How do we not see the blatant excuse to pirate something here?

cgoddard 15y ago
What's more laughable is that a minority decide to pirate a piece of software, and everyone gets punished. No, actually, in large part only the people who chose not to pirate get punished. How far does it have to go before people realize the whole strategy is absurd?

akg 15y ago

Plain and simple, the existence of piracy is not due to the lack of legislation but due to market failure. I find that many people are more than happy to pay for good service and good products -- even if there are cheaper/free alternatives.

dspillett 15y ago

This is not how to show them, nor is it a way to justify piracy. Unless you really can't live without the next version of Windows, don't use it at all. Keep with the current version for as long as you can (I'm still on XP on the only Windows machine I have) or switch to an alternative (this may be the route I take when I next rebuild). I'll be rebuilding that desktop machine at some point this year and what-ever OS goes on the new build I hope will not need reinstalling for a few years (so I'll have to upgrade from XP as it drops out of security update support early in 2014). I'm trying to decide to go for Windows 7, or just go completely Linux - currently the Linux option is winning in my mind. Pretty much the only reason I still run Windows on this home desktop is games. I use OpenOffice for my own documents, and when I need access to MS Office, Visual Studio, and so forth from here I simply VPN+RDC into my machine at the office these days. The rub is that lately I've not been playing that much (I've not had time) and there aren't any games in the near future that I could name as being something I'm waiting for (I'm done waiting for HL?EP3 - if they release it before I leave Windows-land then I'll pre-order, if not then they'll only get a sale out of me if it runs on Linux fine), with PC gaming apparently going in the "beg and jump through hoops or we won't let you play" direction (http://games.slashdot.org/story/12/01/17/1838237/ubisoft-has-windows-style-hardware-based-drm-for-games http://games.slashdot.org/story/12/01/17/1838237/ubisoft-has...) I can see myself simply refusing to buy any new games from the major publishers even if I do keep Windows, and most of the games I have played much of recently could probably be implemented in browsers soon enough (if not already) at which point the choice of underlying OS becomes irrelevant. So my position is: if I buy Windows 7 in the next six months it may well be the last Windows license I personally purchase. If I don't, then XP will have been (unless you count the Windows 7 Starter license that came with my netbook but currently remains unused). Either way I won't pirate it: it is a buy or don't decision. Heck, if I decide to not keep up-to-date games wise (and decide that I'm not likely to be bothered by losing access to the games I've bought previously) then I'll not only save £80 for the Windows license but I could save a chunk getting a less flashy GFX card too (I'm only upgrading that in this build to get a card with 3 or more outputs that can be used concurrently). Pirating will just tells them that you want their platform but don't want to pay, using something else tells them that you can live without them and if they want you not to live without them then there are things they need to change.

15y ago

ilitirit 15y ago

I've got several legitimate Windows licenses. I tried to install it on my dad's computer but I had to leave before the installation completed. I returned a few days later to activate it but somehow a virus managed to infect it. I removed the virus, but Windows just refused to activate with a LEGAL KEY. I tried activating by phone and I received an activation key but it didn't work either (permissions error or something). So I just did the sensible thing and installed a version that I found on TPB. Seriously Microsoft, drop the activation scheme. It's not necessary and causes nothing but frustration for your end users.

steder 15y ago

I think the author is missing the point. Microsoft doesn't really care about the license fee. Your lifetime value to them as a consumer of Windows specific services, digital media, and software is much more valuable than the license fees you'll pay. On a related note why bother to use Windows if you don't plan on purchasing other Windows-only software? Is the author also planning to pirate Visual Studio and the like as well? If no Microsoft software is being used why not try Linux or Mac?

razzaj 15y ago

I disagree totally with the logic the article is following. If you do not like Microsoft's products and services (I don't) that is totally acceptable, and i might add understandable, deal with other software vendors ! I do not understand the logic saying "I hate your service and so i will just steal the product". If you want to make your point just go ahead and complain, send a written letter move to another vendor (I Have). Stealing, And i will call it that because it is stealing, is not a legitimate nor a logical reaction to crappy service. The entire internet philosophy, IMO, was build on trust and a certain code of honor if i may say (at the risk of sounding corny) breaking that breaks the internet. Imagine people just screwing up Wikipedia because they think Jimmy Wales did something wrong in their opinion or because an article of their got removed or whatever. Piracy has always been, and will always be, a thing of the internet. think of it as a wicked charm. I will not encourage eradicating it. To be honest i have used pirated software to evaluate when vendors wont offer evaluation options. But then i would go and buy the damn license, because: 1 - it is the right thing to do, regardless. 2 - If i like something, paying for it will support the vendor to continue on making the stuff i like. I personally do not like the way Microsoft does business, i dont like their products and i think they are arrogant pricks but if i need to use windows (god forbid) i will still pay for the damn license.