4 ms·

It seems to be a solution in search of a problem, and probably also relates to the then Chancellor now PM announcing last year that he wanted to make the UK "a

by rwmj 4y ago

It seems to be a solution in search of a problem, and probably also relates to the then Chancellor now PM announcing last year that he wanted to make the UK "a global hub for cryptoasset technology and investment"[1]. Since crypto is now generally regarded as a scam by the wider public, that has been quietly forgotten, but apparently the BoE didn't get the memo yet. The latest thing is they want to use the digital currency to "bank the unbanked", ignoring that basic bank accounts already exist, and banks are required to provide them[2]. [1] https://www.gov.uk/government/news/government-sets-out-plan-to-make-uk-a-global-cryptoasset-technology-hub https://www.gov.uk/government/news/government-sets-out-plan-... [2] https://www.gov.uk/government/collections/basic-bank-accounts https://www.gov.uk/government/collections/basic-bank-account...

azangru 4y ago
> It seems to be a solution in search of a problem Maybe the next step will be to create one? :-)
- AzzieElbab 4y ago
  It aims to combat strategic shortages of the # signs
krona 4y ago
> and banks are required to provide them Do you know if any of the political dissidents in the UK who have had their accounts shut down have successfully challenged a bank in court?
- ben_w 4y ago
  > political dissidents Who? Do you mean like the IRA? Or do you mean like Sinn Féin, Plaid Cymru, and the SNP? I've not actually heard of any private individual in the UK getting un-banked. On the other hand, I do assume there's a need to prove one's identity and if that fails an account may be closed, and identity can be too expensive for some people. Not sure how to resolve that.
  - helsinkiandrew 4y ago
    Apart from a few Russian billionaires, about 25 people in the UK (£61K in total) have had their bank accounts "frozen" - it seems mostly Jihadist terrorists who have left the country to fight with ISIS: https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2994515/Only-25-British-terror-suspects-bank-accounts-frozen-despite-600-UK-jihadists-travelling-fight-ISIS-report-reveals.html https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2994515/Only-25-Bri... If you were found guilty and sentenced for money laundering, funding terrorism, or political corruption etc, I would guess many banks would not want you to have an account with them. There's a list of "sanctioned" people/organisation - who would probably find it hard to open a bank account in the UK: https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/the-uk-sanctions-list https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/the-uk-sanctions-...
  - krona 4y ago
    > I've not actually heard of any private individual in the UK getting un-banked. Of course you haven't because they are just ordinary people who just happen to have unsavoury political views. You can do your own research.
    - d4rti 4y ago
      Do your own research is in this case code for it hasn’t happened. The closest you can find is: - the hostile environment denying immigrants banking services (while an obvious injustice, unrelated to their political views) [1] - seizures etc related to crime (including terrorism) Most denials of banking services are due to poor credit history and as mentioned in this thread Basic Bank accounts exist as a mandated product to serve this market. You can see some of the reasons why around a million U.K. adults are unbanked through this research and evidence [2] - suspiciously not appearing on this list is anything with even a hint of denial due to political belief or actions. So please do enlighten us of all these alleged cases of politically motivated un-banking. 1. https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/sep/22/home-office-errors-already-leading-to-people-being-denied-bank-accounts https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/sep/22/home-office-... 2. https://publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm201719/cmselect/cmtreasy/1642/164205.htm https://publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm201719/cmselect/cmtr...
    - 4y ago
- blitzar 4y ago
  > Do you know if any of the political dissidents in the UK who have had their accounts shut down No > had their accounts shut down have successfully challenged a bank in court. To challenge it in court, first it needs to happen. 9 out of 10 political dissidents, dictators, launderers, arms dealers, cartels and run-of-the-mill tax dodgers globally chose the UK banks every day.
- notahacker 4y ago
  Do you know of any political dissidents in the UK who have had their accounts shut down who are likely to be granted access to a personal digital sterling account [linked to their bank account] by the UK government?
pibechorro 4y ago
Crypto a scam? The only scams I see are people, companies like ftx and idiots collecting monkey nfts. Crypto, actual crypto like btc, etc is doing just fine, in fact better than most assets.
- corobo 4y ago
  Didn't Bitcoin lose half its value like 6 months ago?
  - wizeman 4y ago
    > Didn't Bitcoin lose half its value like 6 months ago? Let's say the following statement is true: "If X is a scam then X's price eventually goes down". That doesn't necessarily make the converse statement true: "If X's price eventually goes down then X is a scam". This is a common logical fallacy. Those two statements are logically distinct propositions and if one is true, it doesn't necessarily make the other one true as well. This is just basic logic. Which means that bitcoin's price going down does not necessarily mean that bitcoin is a scam. Commodities' prices can fluctuate substantially. In October 2008, oil had lost more than 50% of its value in 3 months. [1] In August 1999, gold had lost more than 70% of its value since its all-time-high in 1980. [2] Would you also have said at those times that oil and gold are a scam because their value had gone down significantly? (Cue the "but oil and gold are useful" responses, obliviating the fact that cryptocurrencies such as bitcoin are extremely useful in many ways, some of them unique, and that gold's industrial/ornamental utility does not justify its historical or current price by a long shot, but rather, its utility as an investment/store of value/wealth protection/diversification asset does). [1] https://www.nytimes.com/2008/10/17/business/worldbusiness/17oil.html https://www.nytimes.com/2008/10/17/business/worldbusiness/17... [2] https://goldprice.org/gold-price-history.html https://goldprice.org/gold-price-history.html
    - corobo 4y ago
      I was responding to > actual crypto like btc, etc is doing just fine I was not saying Bitcoin is a scam. I was questioning it "doing just fine" and "in fact better than most assets" A very common logical fallacy I come across online is someone assuming a person has said something that they didn't say and writing a wall of text opposing it. Thank you for the basic logic tips on a site named Hacker News though, I appreciate the refresher :P I'll quote reply in future to avoid confusion :)

by rwmj 4y ago

azangru 4y ago

> It seems to be a solution in search of a problem Maybe the next step will be to create one? :-)

AzzieElbab 4y ago
It aims to combat strategic shortages of the # signs

krona 4y ago

> and banks are required to provide them Do you know if any of the political dissidents in the UK who have had their accounts shut down have successfully challenged a bank in court?

ben_w 4y ago
> political dissidents Who? Do you mean like the IRA? Or do you mean like Sinn Féin, Plaid Cymru, and the SNP? I've not actually heard of any private individual in the UK getting un-banked. On the other hand, I do assume there's a need to prove one's identity and if that fails an account may be closed, and identity can be too expensive for some people. Not sure how to resolve that.
- helsinkiandrew 4y ago
  Apart from a few Russian billionaires, about 25 people in the UK (£61K in total) have had their bank accounts "frozen" - it seems mostly Jihadist terrorists who have left the country to fight with ISIS: https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2994515/Only-25-British-terror-suspects-bank-accounts-frozen-despite-600-UK-jihadists-travelling-fight-ISIS-report-reveals.html https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2994515/Only-25-Bri... If you were found guilty and sentenced for money laundering, funding terrorism, or political corruption etc, I would guess many banks would not want you to have an account with them. There's a list of "sanctioned" people/organisation - who would probably find it hard to open a bank account in the UK: https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/the-uk-sanctions-list https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/the-uk-sanctions-...
- krona 4y ago
  > I've not actually heard of any private individual in the UK getting un-banked. Of course you haven't because they are just ordinary people who just happen to have unsavoury political views. You can do your own research.
  - d4rti 4y ago
    Do your own research is in this case code for it hasn’t happened. The closest you can find is: - the hostile environment denying immigrants banking services (while an obvious injustice, unrelated to their political views) [1] - seizures etc related to crime (including terrorism) Most denials of banking services are due to poor credit history and as mentioned in this thread Basic Bank accounts exist as a mandated product to serve this market. You can see some of the reasons why around a million U.K. adults are unbanked through this research and evidence [2] - suspiciously not appearing on this list is anything with even a hint of denial due to political belief or actions. So please do enlighten us of all these alleged cases of politically motivated un-banking. 1. https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/sep/22/home-office-errors-already-leading-to-people-being-denied-bank-accounts https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/sep/22/home-office-... 2. https://publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm201719/cmselect/cmtreasy/1642/164205.htm https://publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm201719/cmselect/cmtr...
  - 4y ago
blitzar 4y ago
> Do you know if any of the political dissidents in the UK who have had their accounts shut down No > had their accounts shut down have successfully challenged a bank in court. To challenge it in court, first it needs to happen. 9 out of 10 political dissidents, dictators, launderers, arms dealers, cartels and run-of-the-mill tax dodgers globally chose the UK banks every day.
notahacker 4y ago
Do you know of any political dissidents in the UK who have had their accounts shut down who are likely to be granted access to a personal digital sterling account [linked to their bank account] by the UK government?

pibechorro 4y ago

Crypto a scam? The only scams I see are people, companies like ftx and idiots collecting monkey nfts. Crypto, actual crypto like btc, etc is doing just fine, in fact better than most assets.

corobo 4y ago
Didn't Bitcoin lose half its value like 6 months ago?
- wizeman 4y ago
  > Didn't Bitcoin lose half its value like 6 months ago? Let's say the following statement is true: "If X is a scam then X's price eventually goes down". That doesn't necessarily make the converse statement true: "If X's price eventually goes down then X is a scam". This is a common logical fallacy. Those two statements are logically distinct propositions and if one is true, it doesn't necessarily make the other one true as well. This is just basic logic. Which means that bitcoin's price going down does not necessarily mean that bitcoin is a scam. Commodities' prices can fluctuate substantially. In October 2008, oil had lost more than 50% of its value in 3 months. [1] In August 1999, gold had lost more than 70% of its value since its all-time-high in 1980. [2] Would you also have said at those times that oil and gold are a scam because their value had gone down significantly? (Cue the "but oil and gold are useful" responses, obliviating the fact that cryptocurrencies such as bitcoin are extremely useful in many ways, some of them unique, and that gold's industrial/ornamental utility does not justify its historical or current price by a long shot, but rather, its utility as an investment/store of value/wealth protection/diversification asset does). [1] https://www.nytimes.com/2008/10/17/business/worldbusiness/17oil.html https://www.nytimes.com/2008/10/17/business/worldbusiness/17... [2] https://goldprice.org/gold-price-history.html https://goldprice.org/gold-price-history.html
  - corobo 4y ago
    I was responding to > actual crypto like btc, etc is doing just fine I was not saying Bitcoin is a scam. I was questioning it "doing just fine" and "in fact better than most assets" A very common logical fallacy I come across online is someone assuming a person has said something that they didn't say and writing a wall of text opposing it. Thank you for the basic logic tips on a site named Hacker News though, I appreciate the refresher :P I'll quote reply in future to avoid confusion :)