3 ms·

Then banks just charge stupidly high card-reader and merchant account fees. It still sucks for small businesses in EU.

by mantas 4y ago

mschuster91 4y ago
Sumup charges 39€ once per terminal, .9% for debit card transactions and 1.9% for credit card transactions. Nothing more. The times when accepting card payments was expensive have been over for years. Everyone whining about "card payments cost so much" should look what the combination of pricing caps and competition have brought up, especially with the pandemic. [1] https://help.sumup.com/de-DE/articles/4oI3qHHji2I2S9dyvRfec3-pricing-fees https://help.sumup.com/de-DE/articles/4oI3qHHji2I2S9dyvRfec3...
- traspler 4y ago
  Seems to be a bit more in Switzerland: https://www.sumup.com/de-ch/ec-kartleser-kosten/ https://www.sumup.com/de-ch/ec-kartleser-kosten/
- mantas 4y ago
  It's still an expense to avoid for small businesses. Especially those who do relatively few transactions.
  - mschuster91 4y ago
    To the contrary, small businesses can save costs by going at least partially cashless. Cash costs money in itself on a variety of factors - employee theft, employee mistakes (e.g. handing too much change, accepting counterfeit cash), robberies, counting and transporting the cash to a bank, securing the cash on-premises, lost business by people not carrying wads of cash any more...
    - mantas 4y ago
      Many small businesses are +/- one-man-operations. Robberies are not a problem in many parts of a world (last local robbing I hard about was 25-ish years ago). Customer retention is not a problem if people are used to cash. Transporting and keeping cash is still a thing if you accept cash. Accepting cash and cards is just doubling costs and logistical issues.
      - orwin 4y ago
        The issue for one man business is accounting. You have exceptions in some places (farmer's market) you can basically do as you wish, but in small shops you have to follow rules that makes cashless less painful. In France at least.
        mantas 4y ago
        Modern cashier's machines do accounting pretty well. But looking at businesses I visit - old good pen&paper seem to work great as well.
        orwin 4y ago
        Yes, but modern cashier's machine are more expensive (again, in France) than this new white terminal the new businesses around me uses. > old good pen&paper seem to work great as well I think that for food businesses in brick and mortar shops in France, if you take cash, you have to get a cashier's machine. Not 100% sure that's true but that's the explanation i got from a bubble tea shop who didn't take cash.
        mantas 4y ago
        Cashier's machine is one-off purchase. You can get a really cheap 2nd hand. Meanwhile card processing embraced subscriptions all the way. > I think that for food businesses in brick and mortar shops in France Even tiny food businesses have quite a few transactions in a day. Wit weird sums that may make cash painful in other ways. €6.71 is fast by card than counting coins and queue length may matter at peak times. I was talking more about, for example, hairdresser where amount is square and there're very few transactions in a day.
- djkivi 4y ago
  Why does it need to be a percentage? Isn't processing a $1.00 payment the same as processing a $1000 payment?
  - mschuster91 4y ago
    > Isn't processing a $1.00 payment the same as processing a $1000 payment? Technically yes, but the cost that Sumup or whatever else processor you use gets charged is based on a percentage amount set by the card networks. Sumup just adds a .5 or whatever onto the rates they get from the card networks and there's the .9/1.9% final charge.
yxhuvud 4y ago
That still sounds like a situation where the merchants could shop around and where a functioning market could be created. That is a lot harder with the transaction fees as merchants typically don't charge different prices to customers with different cards.

Then banks just charge stupidly high card-reader and merchant account fees. It still sucks for small businesses in EU.

by mantas 4y ago

Then banks just charge stupidly high card-reader and merchant account fees. It still sucks for small businesses in EU.

Sumup charges 39€ once per terminal, .9% for debit card transactions and 1.9% for credit card transactions. Nothing more. The times when accepting card payments was expensive have been over for years. Everyone whining about "card payments cost so much" should look what the combination of pricing caps and competition have brought up, especially with the pandemic. [1] https://help.sumup.com/de-DE/articles/4oI3qHHji2I2S9dyvRfec3-pricing-fees https://help.sumup.com/de-DE/articles/4oI3qHHji2I2S9dyvRfec3...

traspler 4y ago
Seems to be a bit more in Switzerland: https://www.sumup.com/de-ch/ec-kartleser-kosten/ https://www.sumup.com/de-ch/ec-kartleser-kosten/
mantas 4y ago
It's still an expense to avoid for small businesses. Especially those who do relatively few transactions.
- mschuster91 4y ago
  To the contrary, small businesses can save costs by going at least partially cashless. Cash costs money in itself on a variety of factors - employee theft, employee mistakes (e.g. handing too much change, accepting counterfeit cash), robberies, counting and transporting the cash to a bank, securing the cash on-premises, lost business by people not carrying wads of cash any more...
  - mantas 4y ago
    Many small businesses are +/- one-man-operations. Robberies are not a problem in many parts of a world (last local robbing I hard about was 25-ish years ago). Customer retention is not a problem if people are used to cash. Transporting and keeping cash is still a thing if you accept cash. Accepting cash and cards is just doubling costs and logistical issues.
    - orwin 4y ago
      The issue for one man business is accounting. You have exceptions in some places (farmer's market) you can basically do as you wish, but in small shops you have to follow rules that makes cashless less painful. In France at least.
      - mantas 4y ago
        Modern cashier's machines do accounting pretty well. But looking at businesses I visit - old good pen&paper seem to work great as well.
        orwin 4y ago
        Yes, but modern cashier's machine are more expensive (again, in France) than this new white terminal the new businesses around me uses. > old good pen&paper seem to work great as well I think that for food businesses in brick and mortar shops in France, if you take cash, you have to get a cashier's machine. Not 100% sure that's true but that's the explanation i got from a bubble tea shop who didn't take cash.
        mantas 4y ago
        Cashier's machine is one-off purchase. You can get a really cheap 2nd hand. Meanwhile card processing embraced subscriptions all the way. > I think that for food businesses in brick and mortar shops in France Even tiny food businesses have quite a few transactions in a day. Wit weird sums that may make cash painful in other ways. €6.71 is fast by card than counting coins and queue length may matter at peak times. I was talking more about, for example, hairdresser where amount is square and there're very few transactions in a day.
djkivi 4y ago
Why does it need to be a percentage? Isn't processing a $1.00 payment the same as processing a $1000 payment?
- mschuster91 4y ago
  > Isn't processing a $1.00 payment the same as processing a $1000 payment? Technically yes, but the cost that Sumup or whatever else processor you use gets charged is based on a percentage amount set by the card networks. Sumup just adds a .5 or whatever onto the rates they get from the card networks and there's the .9/1.9% final charge.

yxhuvud 4y ago

That still sounds like a situation where the merchants could shop around and where a functioning market could be created. That is a lot harder with the transaction fees as merchants typically don't charge different prices to customers with different cards.