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Biggest Barrier to Biking Is a Fear of Cars

119 points by jseliger 4y ago

PaulHoule 4y ago
It's been a controversial point among cycling advocates for years. One fear is that if a handful of bike lanes exist, cyclists will feel confined to them, that they don't feel it is safe and permissible to ride on the roads -- like you need to haul your bike on the back of an SUV to an authorized bike trail if you want to bike.
- hooverd 4y ago
  On the other hand, I don't know if telling kids and families to just take the lane is the right approach.
  - uneekname 4y ago
    I think it depends on what kind of street it is. If I had my way, downtown areas would have very low speed limits, and narrower streets would discourage cars from going fast. People who need cars (or, make deliveries) could still use them, but the streets would be slow enough that pedestrians and cyclist would feel seen and in-control.
    - Reason077 4y ago
      > "If I had my way, downtown areas would have very low speed limits, and narrower streets would discourage cars from going fast." Thankfully, this is exactly the sort of urban design we're gradually seeing more of, at least in many bigger European cities. New UK Department for Transport guidance is for all urban and residential streets to have 20 mph (~30 km/h) speed limits, down from 30 mph previously. It is, however, still up to local authorities to actually set those limits. In London, most streets have been 20 mph for a while now.
  - ThatGeoGuy 4y ago
    Vehicular cycling is such a ridiculous ideology and mantra. John Forester has done more damage to not-cars-means-of-transportation than pretty much any other person riding a bike, and many more outside of that group. The "Well there's your problem" podcast goes over a lot of his ideas in great detail [0]. The crux of it is what the above study says: if you want to encourage cycling you have to build dedicated infrastructure (and maintain that infrastructure in all weather and conditions) in order for people to view it as something reliable. The key is to avoid what the parent poster specified by just increasing supply: to assuage fears that there are "only a handful of bike lanes and paths (and thus cyclists fear they are confined)" is to just build more. It's vastly cheaper than our current car-focused infrastructure. Cities exist today that seem to figure this out without turning into Amsterdam, so surely the rest of us can figure it out as well. [0]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zm29fd-s7tQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zm29fd-s7tQ
    - epakai 4y ago
      Vehicular cycling at least puts you where drivers expect other vehicles to be coming from. It's a good choice in many situations. Being in pedestrian areas, riding as far right as possible (area-specific mandate), or in a bike lane makes you practically invisible in many cases. Cycling specific infrastructure can do a lot, but it can never be a solution for all destinations because of limitations enforced by pre-existing infrastructure.
      - trmsw 4y ago
        my knee-jerk reaction is: and because streets aren't just for cars! But more pragmatically, vehicular cycling is often the best choice because of visibility and predictability, and also as regards driver awareness and expectation: it at least seems safer if drivers are accustomed to sharing the road than if they never have to.
    - deadbeeves 4y ago
      Nah. Unless you ride in a town where everyone rides and no one drives, you're gonna have to interact with cars at some point. It's just inevitable. You need to know how to ride on a road with other vehicles. I'm not convinced that the answer is just more infrastructure. IME, most bike paths are just bad. They're some combination of poorly designed, poorly made, or poorly maintained. There's one on the way to my office that has marked loading bays for trucks such that I have to keep getting off onto the car traffic because there's no way I'm passing between a vehicle and the sidewalk. Why would you build something like that there? And of course if you decide that it's just too risky to use the bike path people scream at you because they think they're entitled to that lane that you didn't even ask for.
- dkarp 4y ago
  There's one particular bike lane on my commute that I hate. There are cars parked all along the road and it's a single line placed 3-4ft away from the average car. Any above average sized vehicle or poorly parked vehicle takes up some or all of the "bike lane". I refuse to cycle in it, but I can feel the judgement of every driver trying to pass me. I would much rather that cycle lane wasn't there.
  - maxerickson 4y ago
    Eh, they would glare at you anyway. I was pacing the vehicle in front of me and briefly took the lane around an s curve on a town street sharrows, a couple blocks from a stop sign. The guy behind me closed the following distance to intimidate me and when I went up on the sidewalk and yelled at him at the stop sign, he told me to go ride on a bike path. He put my life at unnecessary risk for the offense of being on a designated bike street...
- Reason077 4y ago
  What tends to happen in London is about 90% of cyclists use the bike lanes, while a few racing-bike hotshots will skip them (especially when congested) and use the car lanes. Usually those guys are easily fast enough to keep up with the cars on busy city streets anyway. There's certainly no rule, real or imaginary, that says if bike lanes exist then cyclists must use them. But having decent cycle lanes there absolutely does encourage more people to cycle!
  - nicolapede 4y ago
    As a regular commuter who cycles through Surrey and south London, I must say that most cycle lanes in London are a joke. They are either shared bus lanes (the good case, albeit you might get in trouble when multiple buses queue one after another) or half-a-meter wide ones, where cars are allowed to cross your lane from both sides. Sometimes using the car lane just seems safer than that.
    - Reason077 4y ago
      There's some good ones in central London. The C2, C3, C6, etc. Wide segregated routes, fully signalised at intersections so turning traffic doesn't cross the cycle lane, etc. I'm not so familiar with South London but some boroughs are better at doing cycling than others. eg: Hackney and Camden very good. Kensington & Chelsea very bad.
      - nicolapede 4y ago
        I agree -- there is a lot of variability depending on boroughs. Hope they will extend the good practices more and more.
  - Symbiote 4y ago
    With pressure from cycling groups over 10 years ago, it wasn't made a legal requirement for cyclists to use a cycling facility where one exists. That's not the case in every country. In Denmark, if there's a cycle path/lane you're required to use it.
  - 4y ago
knorker 4y ago
Was there ever any doubt about this?
- awb 4y ago
  It seems under acknowledged by the “share the road” signs, or bike lanes that are in between car lanes.
- quicklime 4y ago
  For a long time, "vehicular cycling" was a big thing - the idea being that bicyclists should use the road as if they were driving a car. This put a lot of focus on teaching people how to ride a bike on the road, rather than designing safer infrastructure for them. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vehicular_cycling https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vehicular_cycling
  - deadbeeves 4y ago
    It makes sense, no? If someone wants to ride now, they should know how to do it safely, not have to way until someone makes the road safe enough that they don't have to learn anything.
    - xboxnolifes 4y ago
      It makes sense at an individual level, but does not make sense at a population level. On an individual level, I would tell someone how to stay safe, but if I was advocating at a population level I would be focusing my time on infrastructure change.
ryeights 4y ago
https://abc7news.com/oakland-cyclists-attacked-injured-dooring-surveillance-video/12810609/ https://abc7news.com/oakland-cyclists-attacked-injured-doori... I wonder why…
goodgoblin 4y ago
I used to ride my bike to work in Boston, and one day I ran into the rear fender of a car who had cut me off, basically crashing into the car at pretty high speed, and the car didn't even notice. I realized that even if I was a master at city biking, through no fault of my own I could easily die or be seriously injured, and I haven't ridden a except for fun now and then since.
- realworldperson 4y ago
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freeqaz 4y ago
I spend a lot of time fantasizing about what building a city "from scratch" would look like. It's a painful problem to actually make it happen because cities are all about network effects (you live there because people you know are there, etc). I just think it would be very appealing to me to live in a city that is optimized for biking + walking instead of having to own a car. If I were ever to get rich, this would be an area I'd throw funding at to figure out. Is anybody aware of any research in this area?
- jlhawn 4y ago
  You should check out Culdesac[1]. [1] https://culdesac.com/ https://culdesac.com/
- reidjs 4y ago
  If you get a chance visit Amsterdam and rent a bike, fantastic city for biking.
  - mcv 4y ago
    The entire country is. Amsterdam traffic is hell compared to many other Dutch cities and smaller towns.
- campbel 4y ago
  Yep and I know this to be true because my family often vacations in places that have this as a core feature. It's easier in resort type areas for the reasons you mention. The freedom of biking and walking about is a great feeling.
- burlesona 4y ago
  This is something that I'm working on and hope my next startup will be about, I know there are others interested in it. The problem is generally the regulatory environment, it's a surprisingly difficult thing to do in any habitable location. Marc Lore is working on this, throwing his billions into a concept for a new city out in the desert somewhere: https://cityoftelosa.com https://cityoftelosa.com The team at Culdesac are trying this in a "compliant" way, they built an apartment complex with basically no parking in Tempe, AZ but are positioning it as a car-free neighborhood. I believe this is their prototype and they hope to scale it up in future projects, this is about as realistic of a path as I think anyone has. Building for cars is required by law across North America, and getting around that is quite hard.
elijaht 4y ago
Easily the case for me around the NYC area. I biked recreationally both within the city and in Jersey on more country roads. The fear of getting hit in both scenarios eventually became to big for me, and I picked less dangerous forms of exercise. It's a shame as I never felt as free as when I was tooling around on my bike
- hackitup7 4y ago
  A friend of mine was a bike messenger in early 2000s NYC over the summer, and quit before the summer was out because he'd been hit by cars twice. It's such a shame as NYC's density, weather ~9mo out of the year, and elevation change all lend themselves to extensive biking.
- toshredsyousay 4y ago
  That is one of the most frustrating things about bike advocacy in NYC. 90% of the people who would bike don't because they think it is dangerous, and then people at CB meetings say we don't need to build bike lanes because they don't see anyone biking. They think of it as a way to increase safety of existing bikers and not a way to draw in new bikers. And because of fractured nature of how these decisions are made, and the vetocratic nature of how our political system gives everyone a way to say 'no', every bike lane is a painful fight. And in the end, even if a bike lane gets built, the city doesn't actually put physical barriers to stop people parking cars in them. Then you factor in the lack of traffic enforcement in this city and the situation is pretty dire. That said, there has been very slow progress. Compared to 15 years ago it is quite a bit better, but good lord it is a very drawn out fight. I try to encourage folks to show up to local community board meetings to advocate for bike lanes because I do think it makes a difference. Thinking about how much is within a 5-6 mile distance of you at any point in time in NYC, you can see the potential for NYC to be an incredible place to bike if we prioritized safety, pollution and efficiency when we allocate street space in the city.
nayuki 4y ago
I'm even afraid of walking because of cars. Last week when crossing a driveway near where I live, twice a car blasted through the pedestrian crosswalk without even looking. Drivers are out of control and are blissfully (or willfully) unaware of the dangers they pose to others.
- realworldperson 4y ago
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sourcecodeplz 4y ago
And for good reason ... that's why they have bicycle lanes in west EU all over the place.
FigurativeVoid 4y ago
My fear off cars has been going up recently, mostly because of extremely dangerous driving, aka people using their phones I was rear-ended because the driver behind me was on their phone. When I am driving now, all I can see is the amount of people that are looking at their lap and completely ignoring the road. I have even seen people watching TV while driving. This has made me, for better or worse, a really conservative and defensive driver. edit: grammar good
- trgn 4y ago
  > The amount of people that are looking at their lap It's uncanny. Once you see it, you can't unsee it. That half cocked head, the periodic glancing up, one hand out of view. It's the posture of like half the drivers out there. It's new normal.
- extr0pian 4y ago
  This. I was born and raised in Portland and recently moved to Austin, having cycled and driven in both (though primarily in Portland). Both are often celebrated as being bicycle friendly, however in both cities, taking public transportation gives you a view into people's vehicles while you pass by and it's scary just how many people are texting or scrolling their social media feed while driving. I think Austin is a bit more dangerous because 1) there are far more oversized pickup trucks driven by city people that reduce the driver's visibility (part of the whole "Texas identity" thing) and 2) the city finds it acceptable to allow/encourage cyclists onto streets where the speed limit is 55mph which are basically highway speeds (sometimes there are painted bike lanes, sometimes there isn't). Within the first few months of moving to Austin, I had a middle aged woman aggressively cut in front of me while I was riding down a hill and yell at me for riding in the street (which is not only legal, it's required for cyclists). Then follow me home in her pickup truck and try to call the police. Police never showed up, likely informing her she was in the wrong.
- prawn 4y ago
  It's not even just the phone thing. I'm not from the US but have driven 10,000+ miles there in the last few years on various roadtrips. So many American drivers drive with a death wish, like they're invulnerable and are not fussed if they do or don't survive their next lane change.
jmclnx 4y ago
100% true for most people. I commuted by bicycle for decades and for me, I got used to it. But as time progressed and the number of autos, the size of these pickups and the road conditions, I can easily see why people are afraid. Also on the roads I commuted on, people started to drive much faster as time progressed. In 30mph (50kph) zones the ave speed now is around 50mph (80kph), back then people did not drive like that. Another thing, when I was young, large trucks were not allowed to drive inside City Boundaries in my US State, plus they were not allowed on the roads on Sundays. But that ended when Regean forced my State to de-regulate their Trucking Regulations in the 80s. So yes, I can see why people are afraid now. But one positive, now-a-days I do not get bottles or cans thrown at me and dogs are much more friendly :)
- PaulHoule 4y ago
  This book http://bikeretrogrouch.blogspot.com/2014/01/foresters-effective-cycling.html http://bikeretrogrouch.blogspot.com/2014/01/foresters-effect... quoted accident statistics from the 1970s where it seemed every scenario other than the “cyclist gets hit from behind by a driver out of ignorance or malice” such as “cyclist hit dog”, “cyclist hit parked car” (my worst cycling accident of all time), “cyclist hit cyclist” (I still think cops oughta arrest cyclist for rising in peloton), “cyclist got hit by driver in intersection because the bike lane had no visibility where it crossed the road” killed more cyclists. Newer accidents statistics seem to show the “hit from behind” accidents happen more than previously indicated, particularly in the American South.
seper8 4y ago
I live in the Netherlands and biked (in almost any weather) to school for about 4km every day from ~8 years old. But I wouldn't dare bike to work in most places in the world... Even in Belgium I would hesitate to do this in the big cities.
- Reason077 4y ago
  Big cities tend to be the better and safer places to cycle in my experience. More cyclists on the streets, so cycling is "normal" and car drivers are used to seeing cyclists and know how to behave. Better cycle lanes and infrastructure. Generally slower traffic speeds so bikes are moving closer to the same speed as cars. In rural areas you may have less traffic, but it will be travelling much faster, and not every driver may be paying attention and looking out for cyclists.
gaoshan 4y ago
I've spent time living in China and where I was they had these fantastic protected bike lanes. They were double wide lanes that had an island (with a decorative but still robust and functional metal barrier down the center and attractive plants and trees all around it) protecting it from the traffic. It was like a bike specific roadway that only interacted with cars when crossing at intersections and it felt so safe that riding downtown in crazy Chinese vehicle traffic became a non-issue (they did need bollards at the entrances to these lanes otherwise someone in a smaller vehicle would eventually try to use it to get around the traffic). I wish we had that sort of system where I live in the US.
- rahimnathwani 4y ago
  they did need bollards at the entrances to these lanes otherwise someone in a smaller vehicle would eventually try to use it to get around the traffic In Beijing, many of these lanes (辅路) double as parking lanes. The side by the sidewalk is full of parked cars, and the side near the island is for bicycles, scooters and cars getting in/out of parking spots. Even though cars may be present anywhere in the 辅路, they're not going fast when looking for parking. So I still felt far safer cycling in Beijing (a city of 20MM people) than I do in San Francisco (sub-1MM).
Hamuko 4y ago
The biggest obstacle for me has been the weather. If it rains, you get soaked and all of the shit from the road flies onto your clothes. And during winter, the roads are so icy and uneven that I'm worried I go tumbling downhill and slide right under a car. Helps that the bike path situation here is decent, where you're usually on a shared-use path with a curb, although you really need to pay attention when the bike path crosses a road. Some people just don't see you and others don't know that they actually need to yield to cyclists in quite a lot of intersections.
- JohnFen 4y ago
  I've been commuting by bike daily for the last 20 years, and the only weather that I think is too unpleasant or dangerous to bike in is the same weather that cars shouldn't drive in, too (with one exception: wind. Lord, how I hate the wind). But, as with all other outdoor activities, I dress for it. I wear raingear when it rains, etc. I've been through plenty of downpours and have never arrived at my destination soaked, once I take the raingear off.
mcv 4y ago
Solution seems simple to me: build more bike lanes and bike paths, especially in cities. Although honestly, sharing a road with cars isn't that big of a problem as long as car drivers are responsible drivers. Put more emphasis on interaction with bicycles in driver license tests, and keep the murderous idiots that you get in some countries off the roads.
- pm90 4y ago
  Drivers can’t be trusted. We absolutely must have dedicated bike infrastructure.
  - mcv 4y ago
    That's a matter of culture and driving standards. I trust Dutch drivers. I had no problem bicycling when we didn't have as many separate bike paths yet. That some other countries have drivers who don't care about the lives of cyclists is utterly insane to me. Those people do not belong in cars, or even out in public.
glonq 4y ago
Also a barrier to mopeds or motorcycles. Car drivers can become blind to non-car traffic.
burna_aws_acct 4y ago
In some states (e.g., Texas), drivers pride themselves on inducing fear in cyclists. Why? Cycling is viewed as a direct threat to their way of life. Quite a sinister and successful brainwashing campaign by car manufacturers and lobbyists.
- JohnFen 4y ago
  What's the reasoning here? Do they think that someone is going to pull them out of their cars and force them to bike?
  - pm90 4y ago
    There doesn’t have to be a good reason. Just imply that all cyclists are leftists soy sipping femboys that are wasting your tax money on wasteful bike infrastructure and you’ve got 95% of this group riled up.
favflam 4y ago
1. Vehicular drivers have no incentive to care. The laws around liability have to be changed. 2. Cities have to deprioritize car traffic to below pedestrians, bicycles, buses/trams. Free parking mandated or provided by the city needs to be eliminated. Zoning for building dense hS to be loosened up. Thankfully, this trend is picking up. Car lifestyle is heavily subsidized by the state now.
- Spivak 4y ago
  Wish granted! monkey's paw curls * Bicycles are now granted the same "always have right of way" status as pedestrians. The ensuing panic following the damages payout for the first cyclist to be maimed by a vehicle causes local governments to enact laws restricting cyclists to designated bike lanes and sidewalks. The bill is sold as a measure to protect cyclists but it's really so insurance premiums for drivers don't go up. Since breaking local laws doesn't eliminate the liability the city police aggressively ticket cyclists who "jayride." * Minimum parking spaces mandated by the city go away. And nothing changes because parking spaces in tight areas are worth their weight in gold to the businesses that own them. * Zoning for multi-family homes and apartment complexes open up. Developers see $$$ and buy up land in trendy well-to-do areas and build "luxury" apartment complexes. It's great for a while until those apartment dwellers want more space and to stop paying rent forever and move to where you can still find affordable single family homes -- low income areas! Ooops, you wanted to avoid gentrification, right? You can't law your way out of a culture that likes cars and single family homes. You have to make a desirable end-state for people with kids and hobbies. This might work in SF where there is a huge amount of latent demand but in your average med sized city it'll backfire.
  - bluefirebrand 4y ago
    > You have to make a desirable end-state for people with kids and hobbies. This is the thing I never really understand. Dense urban living seems very nice for young workers who want cheap rent and a small walkable world. It's pretty hostile to having children or any hobbies that take any kind of space. You can't have a metalworking shop in a condo.
thot_experiment 4y ago
If you're interested in 13 minutes of beautiful art from a completely different viewpoint, I highly recommend checking out Lucas Brunelle's "Road Sage" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bPSxU8a8CwM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bPSxU8a8CwM This video changed my life.
- deadbeeves 4y ago
  I'm always conflicted by Brunelle's videos. The skill displayed is certainly impressive, but I think it's wrong to glorify that kind of behavior. Those people are irresponsible fools. If you want to do stunts, don't do it around people who don't want to be involved. And I say this as someone who commutes by road bike daily.
  - thot_experiment 4y ago
    I agree with you on some level, and I don't condone everything in this video. I think I probably draw the line in a different spot than most people however. Alex Honnold has honed his craft to a point where he can casually do things that would probably have a 99% mortality rate if tried by most climbers. These folk aren't that good, but there's a huge gulf between your average road bike enjoyer and someone who races to win alleycats. While this behavior on a bike CAN cause severe injury, including to bystanders, I think compared to checking directions on your phone etc. the amortized increase in mortality for those around you is likely much lower. I think it's wrong to "glorify" this behavior, but I don't want to live in a world where we can't appreciate the beauty of it. Where we don't understand why some people chose to do it, and where we can't take a step back to reflect that perhaps chasing this visceral sense of aliveness is worth some the danger it may cause to other people, perhaps more so than checking your phone while driving, or even going maskless in public during flu season.
pacomerh 4y ago
This is the main reason I stopped biking to places in the city. Now I just use bike paths in places where they're wide. I've met people that take pride in bullying cyclists because of course when we drive we become the most impatient creatures in the planet.
johnea 4y ago
Well, not really "the cars"... More like the fear of being CRUSHED by "the cars"
fbrncci 4y ago
Absolutely. Growing up in the Netherlands, I would bike everywhere. At my height, I would be biking 90-120km per week. From commuting to work, to the gym on the other end of town and some trips .. whenever. Now I am in Asia, there are people biking here, but not me. Suddenly all the trips I take, even the shortest ones are by car. Because screw cars.
decafninja 4y ago
As a New Yorker my biggest obstacle to biking more is theft.
sershe 4y ago
I really doubt it is. The biggest barrier must be the weather - biking in the cold and rain is just super unpleasant for an average person, especially for errands and commute. I know you can prep, but it's still pain. I gave up due to Seattle rain, and I am not even an average commuter - I'd go on a major hike on a rainy day... but biking in the same weather just sucks so much. And Seattle is mild. I can see how it can be the 2nd biggest barrier, although for me in Seattle it's the fear of my bike being stolen. Dunno if I'm lucky or what, but the only 2 times I've been in serious cycling accidents it was 100% my fault (both times at 20+ mph passing cars on the left - rear ended another car once, and rode into tram tracks the other). I'm still afraid of cars but not as much as having to uber back in wet cycling clothes if my bike gets stolen :)

119 points by jseliger 4y ago

It's been a controversial point among cycling advocates for years. One fear is that if a handful of bike lanes exist, cyclists will feel confined to them, that they don't feel it is safe and permissible to ride on the roads -- like you need to haul your bike on the back of an SUV to an authorized bike trail if you want to bike.

hooverd 4y ago
On the other hand, I don't know if telling kids and families to just take the lane is the right approach.
- uneekname 4y ago
  I think it depends on what kind of street it is. If I had my way, downtown areas would have very low speed limits, and narrower streets would discourage cars from going fast. People who need cars (or, make deliveries) could still use them, but the streets would be slow enough that pedestrians and cyclist would feel seen and in-control.
  - Reason077 4y ago
    > "If I had my way, downtown areas would have very low speed limits, and narrower streets would discourage cars from going fast." Thankfully, this is exactly the sort of urban design we're gradually seeing more of, at least in many bigger European cities. New UK Department for Transport guidance is for all urban and residential streets to have 20 mph (~30 km/h) speed limits, down from 30 mph previously. It is, however, still up to local authorities to actually set those limits. In London, most streets have been 20 mph for a while now.
- ThatGeoGuy 4y ago
  Vehicular cycling is such a ridiculous ideology and mantra. John Forester has done more damage to not-cars-means-of-transportation than pretty much any other person riding a bike, and many more outside of that group. The "Well there's your problem" podcast goes over a lot of his ideas in great detail [0]. The crux of it is what the above study says: if you want to encourage cycling you have to build dedicated infrastructure (and maintain that infrastructure in all weather and conditions) in order for people to view it as something reliable. The key is to avoid what the parent poster specified by just increasing supply: to assuage fears that there are "only a handful of bike lanes and paths (and thus cyclists fear they are confined)" is to just build more. It's vastly cheaper than our current car-focused infrastructure. Cities exist today that seem to figure this out without turning into Amsterdam, so surely the rest of us can figure it out as well. [0]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zm29fd-s7tQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zm29fd-s7tQ
  - epakai 4y ago
    Vehicular cycling at least puts you where drivers expect other vehicles to be coming from. It's a good choice in many situations. Being in pedestrian areas, riding as far right as possible (area-specific mandate), or in a bike lane makes you practically invisible in many cases. Cycling specific infrastructure can do a lot, but it can never be a solution for all destinations because of limitations enforced by pre-existing infrastructure.
    - trmsw 4y ago
      my knee-jerk reaction is: and because streets aren't just for cars! But more pragmatically, vehicular cycling is often the best choice because of visibility and predictability, and also as regards driver awareness and expectation: it at least seems safer if drivers are accustomed to sharing the road than if they never have to.
  - deadbeeves 4y ago
    Nah. Unless you ride in a town where everyone rides and no one drives, you're gonna have to interact with cars at some point. It's just inevitable. You need to know how to ride on a road with other vehicles. I'm not convinced that the answer is just more infrastructure. IME, most bike paths are just bad. They're some combination of poorly designed, poorly made, or poorly maintained. There's one on the way to my office that has marked loading bays for trucks such that I have to keep getting off onto the car traffic because there's no way I'm passing between a vehicle and the sidewalk. Why would you build something like that there? And of course if you decide that it's just too risky to use the bike path people scream at you because they think they're entitled to that lane that you didn't even ask for.
dkarp 4y ago
There's one particular bike lane on my commute that I hate. There are cars parked all along the road and it's a single line placed 3-4ft away from the average car. Any above average sized vehicle or poorly parked vehicle takes up some or all of the "bike lane". I refuse to cycle in it, but I can feel the judgement of every driver trying to pass me. I would much rather that cycle lane wasn't there.
- maxerickson 4y ago
  Eh, they would glare at you anyway. I was pacing the vehicle in front of me and briefly took the lane around an s curve on a town street sharrows, a couple blocks from a stop sign. The guy behind me closed the following distance to intimidate me and when I went up on the sidewalk and yelled at him at the stop sign, he told me to go ride on a bike path. He put my life at unnecessary risk for the offense of being on a designated bike street...
Reason077 4y ago
What tends to happen in London is about 90% of cyclists use the bike lanes, while a few racing-bike hotshots will skip them (especially when congested) and use the car lanes. Usually those guys are easily fast enough to keep up with the cars on busy city streets anyway. There's certainly no rule, real or imaginary, that says if bike lanes exist then cyclists must use them. But having decent cycle lanes there absolutely does encourage more people to cycle!
- nicolapede 4y ago
  As a regular commuter who cycles through Surrey and south London, I must say that most cycle lanes in London are a joke. They are either shared bus lanes (the good case, albeit you might get in trouble when multiple buses queue one after another) or half-a-meter wide ones, where cars are allowed to cross your lane from both sides. Sometimes using the car lane just seems safer than that.
  - Reason077 4y ago
    There's some good ones in central London. The C2, C3, C6, etc. Wide segregated routes, fully signalised at intersections so turning traffic doesn't cross the cycle lane, etc. I'm not so familiar with South London but some boroughs are better at doing cycling than others. eg: Hackney and Camden very good. Kensington & Chelsea very bad.
    - nicolapede 4y ago
      I agree -- there is a lot of variability depending on boroughs. Hope they will extend the good practices more and more.
- Symbiote 4y ago
  With pressure from cycling groups over 10 years ago, it wasn't made a legal requirement for cyclists to use a cycling facility where one exists. That's not the case in every country. In Denmark, if there's a cycle path/lane you're required to use it.
- 4y ago

knorker 4y ago

Was there ever any doubt about this?

awb 4y ago
It seems under acknowledged by the “share the road” signs, or bike lanes that are in between car lanes.
quicklime 4y ago
For a long time, "vehicular cycling" was a big thing - the idea being that bicyclists should use the road as if they were driving a car. This put a lot of focus on teaching people how to ride a bike on the road, rather than designing safer infrastructure for them. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vehicular_cycling https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vehicular_cycling
- deadbeeves 4y ago
  It makes sense, no? If someone wants to ride now, they should know how to do it safely, not have to way until someone makes the road safe enough that they don't have to learn anything.
  - xboxnolifes 4y ago
    It makes sense at an individual level, but does not make sense at a population level. On an individual level, I would tell someone how to stay safe, but if I was advocating at a population level I would be focusing my time on infrastructure change.

ryeights 4y ago

https://abc7news.com/oakland-cyclists-attacked-injured-dooring-surveillance-video/12810609/ https://abc7news.com/oakland-cyclists-attacked-injured-doori... I wonder why…

goodgoblin 4y ago

I used to ride my bike to work in Boston, and one day I ran into the rear fender of a car who had cut me off, basically crashing into the car at pretty high speed, and the car didn't even notice. I realized that even if I was a master at city biking, through no fault of my own I could easily die or be seriously injured, and I haven't ridden a except for fun now and then since.

realworldperson 4y ago
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freeqaz 4y ago

I spend a lot of time fantasizing about what building a city "from scratch" would look like. It's a painful problem to actually make it happen because cities are all about network effects (you live there because people you know are there, etc). I just think it would be very appealing to me to live in a city that is optimized for biking + walking instead of having to own a car. If I were ever to get rich, this would be an area I'd throw funding at to figure out. Is anybody aware of any research in this area?

jlhawn 4y ago
You should check out Culdesac[1]. [1] https://culdesac.com/ https://culdesac.com/
reidjs 4y ago
If you get a chance visit Amsterdam and rent a bike, fantastic city for biking.
- mcv 4y ago
  The entire country is. Amsterdam traffic is hell compared to many other Dutch cities and smaller towns.
campbel 4y ago
Yep and I know this to be true because my family often vacations in places that have this as a core feature. It's easier in resort type areas for the reasons you mention. The freedom of biking and walking about is a great feeling.
burlesona 4y ago
This is something that I'm working on and hope my next startup will be about, I know there are others interested in it. The problem is generally the regulatory environment, it's a surprisingly difficult thing to do in any habitable location. Marc Lore is working on this, throwing his billions into a concept for a new city out in the desert somewhere: https://cityoftelosa.com https://cityoftelosa.com The team at Culdesac are trying this in a "compliant" way, they built an apartment complex with basically no parking in Tempe, AZ but are positioning it as a car-free neighborhood. I believe this is their prototype and they hope to scale it up in future projects, this is about as realistic of a path as I think anyone has. Building for cars is required by law across North America, and getting around that is quite hard.

elijaht 4y ago

Easily the case for me around the NYC area. I biked recreationally both within the city and in Jersey on more country roads. The fear of getting hit in both scenarios eventually became to big for me, and I picked less dangerous forms of exercise. It's a shame as I never felt as free as when I was tooling around on my bike

hackitup7 4y ago
A friend of mine was a bike messenger in early 2000s NYC over the summer, and quit before the summer was out because he'd been hit by cars twice. It's such a shame as NYC's density, weather ~9mo out of the year, and elevation change all lend themselves to extensive biking.
toshredsyousay 4y ago
That is one of the most frustrating things about bike advocacy in NYC. 90% of the people who would bike don't because they think it is dangerous, and then people at CB meetings say we don't need to build bike lanes because they don't see anyone biking. They think of it as a way to increase safety of existing bikers and not a way to draw in new bikers. And because of fractured nature of how these decisions are made, and the vetocratic nature of how our political system gives everyone a way to say 'no', every bike lane is a painful fight. And in the end, even if a bike lane gets built, the city doesn't actually put physical barriers to stop people parking cars in them. Then you factor in the lack of traffic enforcement in this city and the situation is pretty dire. That said, there has been very slow progress. Compared to 15 years ago it is quite a bit better, but good lord it is a very drawn out fight. I try to encourage folks to show up to local community board meetings to advocate for bike lanes because I do think it makes a difference. Thinking about how much is within a 5-6 mile distance of you at any point in time in NYC, you can see the potential for NYC to be an incredible place to bike if we prioritized safety, pollution and efficiency when we allocate street space in the city.

nayuki 4y ago

I'm even afraid of walking because of cars. Last week when crossing a driveway near where I live, twice a car blasted through the pedestrian crosswalk without even looking. Drivers are out of control and are blissfully (or willfully) unaware of the dangers they pose to others.

realworldperson 4y ago
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sourcecodeplz 4y ago

And for good reason ... that's why they have bicycle lanes in west EU all over the place.

FigurativeVoid 4y ago

My fear off cars has been going up recently, mostly because of extremely dangerous driving, aka people using their phones I was rear-ended because the driver behind me was on their phone. When I am driving now, all I can see is the amount of people that are looking at their lap and completely ignoring the road. I have even seen people watching TV while driving. This has made me, for better or worse, a really conservative and defensive driver. edit: grammar good

trgn 4y ago
> The amount of people that are looking at their lap It's uncanny. Once you see it, you can't unsee it. That half cocked head, the periodic glancing up, one hand out of view. It's the posture of like half the drivers out there. It's new normal.
extr0pian 4y ago
This. I was born and raised in Portland and recently moved to Austin, having cycled and driven in both (though primarily in Portland). Both are often celebrated as being bicycle friendly, however in both cities, taking public transportation gives you a view into people's vehicles while you pass by and it's scary just how many people are texting or scrolling their social media feed while driving. I think Austin is a bit more dangerous because 1) there are far more oversized pickup trucks driven by city people that reduce the driver's visibility (part of the whole "Texas identity" thing) and 2) the city finds it acceptable to allow/encourage cyclists onto streets where the speed limit is 55mph which are basically highway speeds (sometimes there are painted bike lanes, sometimes there isn't). Within the first few months of moving to Austin, I had a middle aged woman aggressively cut in front of me while I was riding down a hill and yell at me for riding in the street (which is not only legal, it's required for cyclists). Then follow me home in her pickup truck and try to call the police. Police never showed up, likely informing her she was in the wrong.
prawn 4y ago
It's not even just the phone thing. I'm not from the US but have driven 10,000+ miles there in the last few years on various roadtrips. So many American drivers drive with a death wish, like they're invulnerable and are not fussed if they do or don't survive their next lane change.

jmclnx 4y ago

100% true for most people. I commuted by bicycle for decades and for me, I got used to it. But as time progressed and the number of autos, the size of these pickups and the road conditions, I can easily see why people are afraid. Also on the roads I commuted on, people started to drive much faster as time progressed. In 30mph (50kph) zones the ave speed now is around 50mph (80kph), back then people did not drive like that. Another thing, when I was young, large trucks were not allowed to drive inside City Boundaries in my US State, plus they were not allowed on the roads on Sundays. But that ended when Regean forced my State to de-regulate their Trucking Regulations in the 80s. So yes, I can see why people are afraid now. But one positive, now-a-days I do not get bottles or cans thrown at me and dogs are much more friendly :)

PaulHoule 4y ago
This book http://bikeretrogrouch.blogspot.com/2014/01/foresters-effective-cycling.html http://bikeretrogrouch.blogspot.com/2014/01/foresters-effect... quoted accident statistics from the 1970s where it seemed every scenario other than the “cyclist gets hit from behind by a driver out of ignorance or malice” such as “cyclist hit dog”, “cyclist hit parked car” (my worst cycling accident of all time), “cyclist hit cyclist” (I still think cops oughta arrest cyclist for rising in peloton), “cyclist got hit by driver in intersection because the bike lane had no visibility where it crossed the road” killed more cyclists. Newer accidents statistics seem to show the “hit from behind” accidents happen more than previously indicated, particularly in the American South.

seper8 4y ago

I live in the Netherlands and biked (in almost any weather) to school for about 4km every day from ~8 years old. But I wouldn't dare bike to work in most places in the world... Even in Belgium I would hesitate to do this in the big cities.

Reason077 4y ago
Big cities tend to be the better and safer places to cycle in my experience. More cyclists on the streets, so cycling is "normal" and car drivers are used to seeing cyclists and know how to behave. Better cycle lanes and infrastructure. Generally slower traffic speeds so bikes are moving closer to the same speed as cars. In rural areas you may have less traffic, but it will be travelling much faster, and not every driver may be paying attention and looking out for cyclists.

gaoshan 4y ago

I've spent time living in China and where I was they had these fantastic protected bike lanes. They were double wide lanes that had an island (with a decorative but still robust and functional metal barrier down the center and attractive plants and trees all around it) protecting it from the traffic. It was like a bike specific roadway that only interacted with cars when crossing at intersections and it felt so safe that riding downtown in crazy Chinese vehicle traffic became a non-issue (they did need bollards at the entrances to these lanes otherwise someone in a smaller vehicle would eventually try to use it to get around the traffic). I wish we had that sort of system where I live in the US.

rahimnathwani 4y ago
they did need bollards at the entrances to these lanes otherwise someone in a smaller vehicle would eventually try to use it to get around the traffic In Beijing, many of these lanes (辅路) double as parking lanes. The side by the sidewalk is full of parked cars, and the side near the island is for bicycles, scooters and cars getting in/out of parking spots. Even though cars may be present anywhere in the 辅路, they're not going fast when looking for parking. So I still felt far safer cycling in Beijing (a city of 20MM people) than I do in San Francisco (sub-1MM).

Hamuko 4y ago

The biggest obstacle for me has been the weather. If it rains, you get soaked and all of the shit from the road flies onto your clothes. And during winter, the roads are so icy and uneven that I'm worried I go tumbling downhill and slide right under a car. Helps that the bike path situation here is decent, where you're usually on a shared-use path with a curb, although you really need to pay attention when the bike path crosses a road. Some people just don't see you and others don't know that they actually need to yield to cyclists in quite a lot of intersections.

JohnFen 4y ago
I've been commuting by bike daily for the last 20 years, and the only weather that I think is too unpleasant or dangerous to bike in is the same weather that cars shouldn't drive in, too (with one exception: wind. Lord, how I hate the wind). But, as with all other outdoor activities, I dress for it. I wear raingear when it rains, etc. I've been through plenty of downpours and have never arrived at my destination soaked, once I take the raingear off.

mcv 4y ago

Solution seems simple to me: build more bike lanes and bike paths, especially in cities. Although honestly, sharing a road with cars isn't that big of a problem as long as car drivers are responsible drivers. Put more emphasis on interaction with bicycles in driver license tests, and keep the murderous idiots that you get in some countries off the roads.

pm90 4y ago
Drivers can’t be trusted. We absolutely must have dedicated bike infrastructure.
- mcv 4y ago
  That's a matter of culture and driving standards. I trust Dutch drivers. I had no problem bicycling when we didn't have as many separate bike paths yet. That some other countries have drivers who don't care about the lives of cyclists is utterly insane to me. Those people do not belong in cars, or even out in public.

glonq 4y ago

Also a barrier to mopeds or motorcycles. Car drivers can become blind to non-car traffic.

burna_aws_acct 4y ago

In some states (e.g., Texas), drivers pride themselves on inducing fear in cyclists. Why? Cycling is viewed as a direct threat to their way of life. Quite a sinister and successful brainwashing campaign by car manufacturers and lobbyists.

JohnFen 4y ago
What's the reasoning here? Do they think that someone is going to pull them out of their cars and force them to bike?
- pm90 4y ago
  There doesn’t have to be a good reason. Just imply that all cyclists are leftists soy sipping femboys that are wasting your tax money on wasteful bike infrastructure and you’ve got 95% of this group riled up.

favflam 4y ago

1. Vehicular drivers have no incentive to care. The laws around liability have to be changed. 2. Cities have to deprioritize car traffic to below pedestrians, bicycles, buses/trams. Free parking mandated or provided by the city needs to be eliminated. Zoning for building dense hS to be loosened up. Thankfully, this trend is picking up. Car lifestyle is heavily subsidized by the state now.

Spivak 4y ago
Wish granted! monkey's paw curls * Bicycles are now granted the same "always have right of way" status as pedestrians. The ensuing panic following the damages payout for the first cyclist to be maimed by a vehicle causes local governments to enact laws restricting cyclists to designated bike lanes and sidewalks. The bill is sold as a measure to protect cyclists but it's really so insurance premiums for drivers don't go up. Since breaking local laws doesn't eliminate the liability the city police aggressively ticket cyclists who "jayride." * Minimum parking spaces mandated by the city go away. And nothing changes because parking spaces in tight areas are worth their weight in gold to the businesses that own them. * Zoning for multi-family homes and apartment complexes open up. Developers see $$$ and buy up land in trendy well-to-do areas and build "luxury" apartment complexes. It's great for a while until those apartment dwellers want more space and to stop paying rent forever and move to where you can still find affordable single family homes -- low income areas! Ooops, you wanted to avoid gentrification, right? You can't law your way out of a culture that likes cars and single family homes. You have to make a desirable end-state for people with kids and hobbies. This might work in SF where there is a huge amount of latent demand but in your average med sized city it'll backfire.
- bluefirebrand 4y ago
  > You have to make a desirable end-state for people with kids and hobbies. This is the thing I never really understand. Dense urban living seems very nice for young workers who want cheap rent and a small walkable world. It's pretty hostile to having children or any hobbies that take any kind of space. You can't have a metalworking shop in a condo.

thot_experiment 4y ago

If you're interested in 13 minutes of beautiful art from a completely different viewpoint, I highly recommend checking out Lucas Brunelle's "Road Sage" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bPSxU8a8CwM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bPSxU8a8CwM This video changed my life.

deadbeeves 4y ago
I'm always conflicted by Brunelle's videos. The skill displayed is certainly impressive, but I think it's wrong to glorify that kind of behavior. Those people are irresponsible fools. If you want to do stunts, don't do it around people who don't want to be involved. And I say this as someone who commutes by road bike daily.
- thot_experiment 4y ago
  I agree with you on some level, and I don't condone everything in this video. I think I probably draw the line in a different spot than most people however. Alex Honnold has honed his craft to a point where he can casually do things that would probably have a 99% mortality rate if tried by most climbers. These folk aren't that good, but there's a huge gulf between your average road bike enjoyer and someone who races to win alleycats. While this behavior on a bike CAN cause severe injury, including to bystanders, I think compared to checking directions on your phone etc. the amortized increase in mortality for those around you is likely much lower. I think it's wrong to "glorify" this behavior, but I don't want to live in a world where we can't appreciate the beauty of it. Where we don't understand why some people chose to do it, and where we can't take a step back to reflect that perhaps chasing this visceral sense of aliveness is worth some the danger it may cause to other people, perhaps more so than checking your phone while driving, or even going maskless in public during flu season.

pacomerh 4y ago

This is the main reason I stopped biking to places in the city. Now I just use bike paths in places where they're wide. I've met people that take pride in bullying cyclists because of course when we drive we become the most impatient creatures in the planet.

johnea 4y ago

Well, not really "the cars"... More like the fear of being CRUSHED by "the cars"

fbrncci 4y ago

Absolutely. Growing up in the Netherlands, I would bike everywhere. At my height, I would be biking 90-120km per week. From commuting to work, to the gym on the other end of town and some trips .. whenever. Now I am in Asia, there are people biking here, but not me. Suddenly all the trips I take, even the shortest ones are by car. Because screw cars.

decafninja 4y ago

As a New Yorker my biggest obstacle to biking more is theft.

sershe 4y ago

I really doubt it is. The biggest barrier must be the weather - biking in the cold and rain is just super unpleasant for an average person, especially for errands and commute. I know you can prep, but it's still pain. I gave up due to Seattle rain, and I am not even an average commuter - I'd go on a major hike on a rainy day... but biking in the same weather just sucks so much. And Seattle is mild. I can see how it can be the 2nd biggest barrier, although for me in Seattle it's the fear of my bike being stolen. Dunno if I'm lucky or what, but the only 2 times I've been in serious cycling accidents it was 100% my fault (both times at 20+ mph passing cars on the left - rear ended another car once, and rode into tram tracks the other). I'm still afraid of cars but not as much as having to uber back in wet cycling clothes if my bike gets stolen :)