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Hyundai, Kia to update security on millions of vehicles after TikTok challenge

181 points by gwill 4y ago

gwill 4y ago
"Hyundai and Kia forced to update software on millions of vehicles because of viral TikTok challenge" is the original title. i did my best to preserve it. one thing that irritates me about this is the keyword "forced". This issue started in 2020, with numbers going up to nearly 20 cars stolen per day. Seems like a very slow and labored response to such a terrible problem with their cars.
- kube-system 4y ago
  There were 2220 cars stolen per day in 2020. While token bypass is a problem, I suspect that the biggest vulnerability is that nearly all cars lack MFA. Steal the token and you can steal the car.
  - InitialLastName 4y ago
    I can't imagine the hell that borrowing a friend's car will be in a world that requires MFA to start the engine.
    - charlieyu1 4y ago
      I can't imagine a world where thieves get away with their crimes so easily neither.
    - poglet 4y ago
      A password or PIN might work if sharing cars.
  - katbyte 4y ago
    here in vancovuer canada the police started a baitcar (and bait bike/boat) program that proved very effective at discouraging car thefts. This what police should be doing instead of going after people selling drugs or giving out speeding tickets.
    - kube-system 4y ago
      According to wikipedia, BC's program was modeled after a program started by Minneapolis police in 1998. Bait car programs are pretty well known in the US: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bait_Car_(TV_series) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bait_Car_(TV_series) And police in the recent problem areas have been doing this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CAZh6D9sftw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CAZh6D9sftw
    - selectodude 4y ago
      Bait cars are racist now. https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2018/08/police-bait-truck-filled-with-nike-shoes-angers-black-chicago-residents.html https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2018/08/police-bait-truc...
      - kube-system 4y ago
        The racist part in this article is not a bait car. The story isn’t even about a bait car, the bait was merchandise. It’s that a black neighborhood was targeted and the vehicle was filled with stereotypical merchandise.
IronWolve 4y ago
Yup, cars up here in Seattle are getting stolen left and right with that damn usb cord trick.
mmastrac 4y ago
The headline on the site is a bit misleading. It's not "because of viral TikTok challenge", it's because the software and physical ignition interface is, in fact, totally broken: "The thefts are reportedly easy to pull off because many 2015-2019 Hyundai and Kia vehicles lack electronic immobilizers that prevent thieves from simply breaking in and bypassing the ignition. The feature is standard equipment on nearly all vehicles from the same period made by other manufacturers." And from: https://www.hotcars.com/kia-boyz-easily-steal-base-kia-hyundais-across-america/ https://www.hotcars.com/kia-boyz-easily-steal-base-kia-hyund... "Based on research conducted by Donut Media, we see that stealing a Hyundai or a Kia model produced between 2011 and 2021 is astonishingly simple. Folks at Donut Media started this research with a regular screwdriver and a USB cable. They start by unscrewing the steering column case and exposing the wires and the ignition cylinder. Once they pull out the ignition cylinder, they find a twist lever that fits perfectly into the slot of a USB-A cable. Once they connect their spare USB Type-A to the ignition cylinder male port, they rotate the unit in a clockwise motion to find the car starting without a proper car key. " This is like saying that movies in the 1980s sparked a rash of car thefts because they showed people hotwiring cars all the time.
- a_shovel 4y ago
  From what I've gathered, "Viral TikTok Challenge" and its variations are sleeper-agent activation phrases for news editors which make them automatically accept the next story pitch you give them.
  - jdlshore 4y ago
    Headlines are chosen by the editor, not the journalist, to my knowledge.
- kens 4y ago
  I'm pretty sure that steering wheel locks were required by law starting in the 1970s. Does this process bypass the steering wheel lock somehow? Or do these cars not have steering wheel locks?
  - 4y ago
apnew 4y ago
[flagged]
- cute_boi 4y ago
  The US gov would probably ban tiktok instead of making proper laws to protect the consumers.
  - sam_lowry_ 4y ago
    Oh wait...
- brianwawok 4y ago
  What regulation did they bypass? It’s mostly just egg on their face and a reason to not buy their car in the future.
  - Mountain_Skies 4y ago
    I was under the impression that immobilizers had been required on all new vehicles for a long time, maybe since around 2000? Maybe the requirement didn't define how well they have to work. Edit: It appears Canada started requiring them in 2007 but the US has only recently started writing the requirements that would align the US with Canada on issues related to vehicle theft.
    - kube-system 4y ago
      As I understand, theft prevention requirements in the US require automakers to engrave VIN numbers in certain car parts. https://www.ecfr.gov/current/title-49/subtitle-B/chapter-V/part-541 https://www.ecfr.gov/current/title-49/subtitle-B/chapter-V/p... And automakers can gain an exemption from this requirement by adding an immobilizer. https://www.federalregister.gov/documents/2016/09/29/2016-22061/exemption-from-vehicle-theft-prevention-standard https://www.federalregister.gov/documents/2016/09/29/2016-22...
- ars 4y ago
AshamedCaptain 4y ago
Always depressing how _any_ metric that is not regularly benchmarked will be ignored by manufacturers and noticeable degrade in a short timeframe. No matter what consumer's reasonable expectations of that metric are.
SHAKEDECADE 4y ago
I kept thinking of this scene from the movie Fight Club: Narrator: A new car built by my company leaves somewhere traveling at 60 mph. The rear differential locks up. The car crashes and burns with everyone trapped inside. Now, should we initiate a recall? Take the number of vehicles in the field, A, multiply by the probable rate of failure, B, multiply by the average out-of-court settlement, C. A times B times C equals X. If X is less than the cost of a recall, we don't do one. Business woman on plane: Are there a lot of these kinds of accidents? Narrator: You wouldn't believe. Business woman on plane: Which car company do you work for? Narrator: A major one.
- hef19898 4y ago
  Totally ignoring all recalls car companies are legally required to do, aka those recalls in which the companies have no say in whatsoever. It makes for a good dialogue in a movie so.
- Johnny555 4y ago
  That makes fun movie dialog, but I don't think the car company decides on their own whether or not to do a safety recall. The NHTSA can force them to do a recall for a serious issue if the manufacturer doesn't do it voluntarily. The NHTSA usually finds out about defects by owners filing directly with the NHTSA, so it doesn't take direct cooperation from the manufacturer to start an investigation.
  - rtkwe 4y ago
    In the early stages or sufficiently low levels of B they can. The NHTSA doesn't investigate every crash like the FAA does for plane crashes.
    - sokoloff 4y ago
      The NTSB has a much larger role than the FAA in plane crash investigations.
      - 4y ago
xxpor 4y ago
Surprised they didn't mention the City of Seattle lawsuit: https://www.kuow.org/stories/seattle-sues-kia-and-hyundai-after-rise-in-car-thefts https://www.kuow.org/stories/seattle-sues-kia-and-hyundai-af... That's probably a bigger issue.
ortusdux 4y ago
Related: State Farm reportedly excludes 14 Hyundai and Kia models from new policies https://www.autoblog.com/2023/02/09/hyundai-kia-models-state-farm-denied-insurance-policies/ https://www.autoblog.com/2023/02/09/hyundai-kia-models-state... Seattle City Attorney Files Lawsuit Against Kia and Hyundai to Abate Public Safety Hazard Created by Exponential Rise in Theft of Their Vehicles https://news.seattle.gov/2023/01/25/seattle-city-attorney-files-lawsuit-against-kia-and-hyundai-to-abate-public-safety-hazard-created-by-exponential-rise-in-theft-of-their-vehicles/ https://news.seattle.gov/2023/01/25/seattle-city-attorney-fi...
- theGnuMe 4y ago
  My 2016 sorento lx v6 has an immobilizer and uses a regular key (not a pushbutton)... I know it works cause I've tripped it.
farmaway 4y ago
Milwaukee vlogger's experience hanging out with car-stealing "Kia Boys:" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fbTrLyqL_nw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fbTrLyqL_nw Over 10,000 cars were stolen in Milwaukee in 2021. That's one stolen auto for every 60 Milwaukee residents, young and old. South Korea's full of vulnerable Kia and Hyundai vehicles, yet doesn't have this problem of teenage serial car thieves. American social dysfunction is a big part of the equation that results in the numbers above.
- flerchin 4y ago
  Is that true? I know the European-market cars all have an immobilizer due to regulation. I can't find evidence whether the South Korean market cars do or do not.
- op00to 4y ago
  Perhaps there is no market for stolen cars in South Korea. Perhaps South Korea has an immobilizer law like many other industrialized nations. Perhaps more cars are parked in secure areas in South Korea, and cars in Milwaukee are parked on streets or driveways. Perhaps there is more CCTV and other surveillance in South Korea that makes it impossible to escape with a stolen car. Not saying it's not a social issue, but there's a lot of other factors as well.
  - farmaway 4y ago
    >Perhaps South Korea has an immobilizer law like many other industrialized nations. Do they? I spent a few minutes searching but couldn't find an answer.
  - jewayne 4y ago
    Here in my city, at least, virtually none of the stolen Kias/Hyundais were being sold. They were being stolen by middle schoolers for joy rides. Throughout the summer of 2022, groups of kids as young as 13 were stealing a different car each day, abandoning the ride of the day when it was out of gas (or damaged to the point of being inoperable). It was pure crime of opportunity.
- 4y ago
Lammy 4y ago
[flagged]
- ceejayoz 4y ago
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immobiliser https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immobiliser > A 2016 study in the Economic Journal finds that the immobiliser lowered the overall rate of car theft by about 40% between 1995 and 2008. Getting it stolen renders you "not allowed to drive it" pretty effectively, and it's a lot more likely than your immobilizer malfunctioning. If you don't drive a Hyundai, Kia, or a 30 year old car, chances are your car already has one.
  - Lammy 4y ago
    Can't wait for the future where the interlock is tied to my personal identity instead of to a physical fob so my car can refuse to start once I've exceeded my personal quarterly energy usage.
    - Johnny555 4y ago
      They're half way there with smartphone apps that can be linked to your car to allow you to unlock and start it. All they need to do is stop issuing keyfobs.
    - CamperBob2 4y ago
      Not much of a joke -- and not something that should be downvoted -- considering that Congress has already ordered NHTSA to do that very thing with alcohol sensors [1]. 1: https://www.aclu.org/news/privacy-technology/congressional-drunk-driver-detection-mandate-raises-privacy-questions https://www.aclu.org/news/privacy-technology/congressional-d...
      - erulabs 4y ago
        It's being downvoted because it's "old man yells at cloud" mixed with paranoia and hyperbole.
kkielhofner 4y ago
From what I know all of this originated in Milwaukee with the original "Kia Boyz"[0]. It's been going on there for years - to the point where I've seen wedding invitations that explicitly state not to bring a Kia/Hyundai to Milwaukee. Additionally, car rental companies will not rent Kia/Hyundai anywhere near Milwaukee. As is the case with most car thefts they are an absolute menace to the streets. "Drive it like it's stolen" is a very real thing[1][2]. Warning - discussion on this topic gets especially racist very quickly so as usual ignore the comments. Seriously, don't even look. [0] - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fbTrLyqL_nw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fbTrLyqL_nw [1] - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YdilXqQaQZU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YdilXqQaQZU [2] - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2VJhLJsBs74 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2VJhLJsBs74
- farmaway 4y ago
  [flagged]
  - cvhashim04 4y ago
    > Notably, South Korea has millions of the same vulnerable vehicles but no car theft epidemic. I thought the US was the only country that was shipped Kias/Hyundais without theft security measures. > Black men commit a wildly disproportionate fraction of violent crime in America. The reasons for this are complex. It is politically difficult to discuss. There it is
    - farmaway 4y ago
      An ugly and uncomfortable truth to be sure, but truth nonetheless. I live in Wisconsin near Milwaukee and face these issues daily. You can't make this bad situation any better by ignoring it.
      - BoorishBears 4y ago
        I mean black people who have have been incarcerated for any reason, violent or non-violent, account for about 1% of the Black population, so I don't think it's a lack of black people that leaves South Korea's safe? I'm a black immigrant and seeing commentary like this feels a lot like that comic of a man shoving a stick in his bike wheel and yelling out someone else's name... - But I also don't get how your original comment followed the racist comment section: White men commit a wildly disproportionate fraction of child sexual abuse in America, yet not every conversation about white men devolves into them being called names I think it speaks more to the people making the comments. Along the lines of how ChatGPT ends up being "racist against non-minorities": if you ask a comment section "What can whites do better", you'll get softballs like "be more mindful of privilege". Ask a comment section what black people can do better and you'll get something cancerous...
olliej 4y ago
They weren’t stolen because of TikTok, they were stolen because there’s no mechanical lock on the steering wheel and no requirement for the key to be present when running the car. The “usb cable” for the attack is not anything technical, it’s purely because a usb plug is approximately the same size as the socket used to house the ignition switch/key. You could also just use a screwdriver, knife, etc
dusted 4y ago
"The thefts are reportedly easy to pull off because many 2015-2019 Hyundai and Kia vehicles lack electronic immobilizers" <-- Being the unfortunate owner of an even older suzuki ignis (secondary car, don't judge), who have has a key break and lost just the damn immobilizer chip from inside the key.. (meaning I had to spend over $100 for a replacement for a security system for a car nobody would steal anyway) I'm making a mental note that a 2015 Kia is a reasonable next car. I'd pay a premium for a car with no digital electronics in the critical path (meaning I can repeair everything with a bag of diodes, resistors and capacitors)
- shortcake27 4y ago
  > …for a car nobody would steal anyway) I'm making a mental note that a 2015 Kia is a reasonable next car. But people are stealing the Kia’s. In bulk. That’s the issue discussed in the article. This contradicts your own reasoning about what people would want to steal. I’d rather spend $100 on the extremely rare occasion I lose or break a key than own a car that’s trivial to steal. Each to their own though.
  - dusted 4y ago
    To be honest, I don't even lock my car anyway.. If people are stealing cars in bulk in a society, what that society has is not a problem with insufficient locks. But I get your point.. If I was in a place like that and couldn't get out, I'd have no choice but to learn to love the security system, even if it is an additional risk of making trouble for me.
garduque 4y ago
It looks like Hyundais are starting to get updates, anyway. I'm having trouble finding information on Kia updates.
can16358p 4y ago
Normally I hate TikTok but this time the challenge did good: auto makers should take software and security much more seriously.
kotaKat 4y ago
The best part is this 'fix' is just adding an ignition kill-switch routine that requires you unlock with the keyfob to be able to start the car, then re-lock afterwards to disable the ignition. Wonder what happens when your keyfob fails at that point - you can get in with the mechanical key, but now can't enable the ignition because you can't unlock it with the fob to signal the software. (And if they make it so you can unlock and drive with an actual mechanical key in the door disabling the system, then it only takes 30-60 more seconds for someone with a Lishi pick to pop the door open and trigger the unlock themselves.)
askvictor 4y ago
I thought immobilisers were not only standard nowadays, but a legal requirement in some places. I don't understand why they would regress on something so simple.
p0pcult 4y ago
Last summer, my piece of shit 2014 Kia Soul was stolen by our local "Kia Boyz" franchise. The thieves totaled it. I got a check for more than it was worth at the time. We were contemplating going down to one car anyway, because of permanent work from home policies. I couldn't have been happier. Oh, and fuck you Kia, your car was a piece of shit.
- briHass 4y ago
  Kia is a lot like the American cars of the 90s. Once you creep near 100K, major problems (or repairs that effectively total the vehicle) pop up like weeds. Their GDI, gasoline direct injection, engines are garbage: the valves and injectors get coated in carbon from the lack of a 'fuel wash', and they burn oil like crazy. The official word from Kia/Hyundai is that burning a quart of oil every 1000 miles is perfectly normal, and that you should be checking your oil level at every fill up to avoid the likely scenario where you seize the engine. Before K/H will consider that you have an issue (even with dozens of class actions filed), you need to have the dealership perform a measured oil burn test and a piston soak, all out of pocket to the owner. My wife's Kia Soul has burned so much oil that it now throws codes indicating a catalytic converter failure at <100K miles. I won't be sinking that kind of money into that trash heap. Maybe I can interest the Kia Boys in a ride? Just make sure you total it and don't hurt anybody.
CottonMcKnight 4y ago
> update the “theft alarm software logic” to extend the length of the alarm sound from 30 seconds to one minute Almost literally Steven Wright's joke: "I couldn't fix your brakes so I made your horn louder."
mrtweetyhack 4y ago
[dead]

181 points by gwill 4y ago

"Hyundai and Kia forced to update software on millions of vehicles because of viral TikTok challenge" is the original title. i did my best to preserve it. one thing that irritates me about this is the keyword "forced". This issue started in 2020, with numbers going up to nearly 20 cars stolen per day. Seems like a very slow and labored response to such a terrible problem with their cars.

kube-system 4y ago
There were 2220 cars stolen per day in 2020. While token bypass is a problem, I suspect that the biggest vulnerability is that nearly all cars lack MFA. Steal the token and you can steal the car.
- InitialLastName 4y ago
  I can't imagine the hell that borrowing a friend's car will be in a world that requires MFA to start the engine.
  - charlieyu1 4y ago
    I can't imagine a world where thieves get away with their crimes so easily neither.
  - poglet 4y ago
    A password or PIN might work if sharing cars.
- katbyte 4y ago
  here in vancovuer canada the police started a baitcar (and bait bike/boat) program that proved very effective at discouraging car thefts. This what police should be doing instead of going after people selling drugs or giving out speeding tickets.
  - kube-system 4y ago
    According to wikipedia, BC's program was modeled after a program started by Minneapolis police in 1998. Bait car programs are pretty well known in the US: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bait_Car_(TV_series) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bait_Car_(TV_series) And police in the recent problem areas have been doing this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CAZh6D9sftw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CAZh6D9sftw
  - selectodude 4y ago
    Bait cars are racist now. https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2018/08/police-bait-truck-filled-with-nike-shoes-angers-black-chicago-residents.html https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2018/08/police-bait-truc...
    - kube-system 4y ago
      The racist part in this article is not a bait car. The story isn’t even about a bait car, the bait was merchandise. It’s that a black neighborhood was targeted and the vehicle was filled with stereotypical merchandise.

IronWolve 4y ago

Yup, cars up here in Seattle are getting stolen left and right with that damn usb cord trick.

mmastrac 4y ago

The headline on the site is a bit misleading. It's not "because of viral TikTok challenge", it's because the software and physical ignition interface is, in fact, totally broken: "The thefts are reportedly easy to pull off because many 2015-2019 Hyundai and Kia vehicles lack electronic immobilizers that prevent thieves from simply breaking in and bypassing the ignition. The feature is standard equipment on nearly all vehicles from the same period made by other manufacturers." And from: https://www.hotcars.com/kia-boyz-easily-steal-base-kia-hyundais-across-america/ https://www.hotcars.com/kia-boyz-easily-steal-base-kia-hyund... "Based on research conducted by Donut Media, we see that stealing a Hyundai or a Kia model produced between 2011 and 2021 is astonishingly simple. Folks at Donut Media started this research with a regular screwdriver and a USB cable. They start by unscrewing the steering column case and exposing the wires and the ignition cylinder. Once they pull out the ignition cylinder, they find a twist lever that fits perfectly into the slot of a USB-A cable. Once they connect their spare USB Type-A to the ignition cylinder male port, they rotate the unit in a clockwise motion to find the car starting without a proper car key. " This is like saying that movies in the 1980s sparked a rash of car thefts because they showed people hotwiring cars all the time.

a_shovel 4y ago
From what I've gathered, "Viral TikTok Challenge" and its variations are sleeper-agent activation phrases for news editors which make them automatically accept the next story pitch you give them.
- jdlshore 4y ago
  Headlines are chosen by the editor, not the journalist, to my knowledge.
kens 4y ago
I'm pretty sure that steering wheel locks were required by law starting in the 1970s. Does this process bypass the steering wheel lock somehow? Or do these cars not have steering wheel locks?
- 4y ago

apnew 4y ago

[flagged]

cute_boi 4y ago
The US gov would probably ban tiktok instead of making proper laws to protect the consumers.
- sam_lowry_ 4y ago
  Oh wait...
brianwawok 4y ago
What regulation did they bypass? It’s mostly just egg on their face and a reason to not buy their car in the future.
- Mountain_Skies 4y ago
  I was under the impression that immobilizers had been required on all new vehicles for a long time, maybe since around 2000? Maybe the requirement didn't define how well they have to work. Edit: It appears Canada started requiring them in 2007 but the US has only recently started writing the requirements that would align the US with Canada on issues related to vehicle theft.
  - kube-system 4y ago
    As I understand, theft prevention requirements in the US require automakers to engrave VIN numbers in certain car parts. https://www.ecfr.gov/current/title-49/subtitle-B/chapter-V/part-541 https://www.ecfr.gov/current/title-49/subtitle-B/chapter-V/p... And automakers can gain an exemption from this requirement by adding an immobilizer. https://www.federalregister.gov/documents/2016/09/29/2016-22061/exemption-from-vehicle-theft-prevention-standard https://www.federalregister.gov/documents/2016/09/29/2016-22...
ars 4y ago

AshamedCaptain 4y ago

Always depressing how _any_ metric that is not regularly benchmarked will be ignored by manufacturers and noticeable degrade in a short timeframe. No matter what consumer's reasonable expectations of that metric are.

SHAKEDECADE 4y ago

I kept thinking of this scene from the movie Fight Club: Narrator: A new car built by my company leaves somewhere traveling at 60 mph. The rear differential locks up. The car crashes and burns with everyone trapped inside. Now, should we initiate a recall? Take the number of vehicles in the field, A, multiply by the probable rate of failure, B, multiply by the average out-of-court settlement, C. A times B times C equals X. If X is less than the cost of a recall, we don't do one. Business woman on plane: Are there a lot of these kinds of accidents? Narrator: You wouldn't believe. Business woman on plane: Which car company do you work for? Narrator: A major one.

hef19898 4y ago
Totally ignoring all recalls car companies are legally required to do, aka those recalls in which the companies have no say in whatsoever. It makes for a good dialogue in a movie so.
Johnny555 4y ago
That makes fun movie dialog, but I don't think the car company decides on their own whether or not to do a safety recall. The NHTSA can force them to do a recall for a serious issue if the manufacturer doesn't do it voluntarily. The NHTSA usually finds out about defects by owners filing directly with the NHTSA, so it doesn't take direct cooperation from the manufacturer to start an investigation.
- rtkwe 4y ago
  In the early stages or sufficiently low levels of B they can. The NHTSA doesn't investigate every crash like the FAA does for plane crashes.
  - sokoloff 4y ago
    The NTSB has a much larger role than the FAA in plane crash investigations.
    - 4y ago

xxpor 4y ago

Surprised they didn't mention the City of Seattle lawsuit: https://www.kuow.org/stories/seattle-sues-kia-and-hyundai-after-rise-in-car-thefts https://www.kuow.org/stories/seattle-sues-kia-and-hyundai-af... That's probably a bigger issue.

ortusdux 4y ago

Related: State Farm reportedly excludes 14 Hyundai and Kia models from new policies https://www.autoblog.com/2023/02/09/hyundai-kia-models-state-farm-denied-insurance-policies/ https://www.autoblog.com/2023/02/09/hyundai-kia-models-state... Seattle City Attorney Files Lawsuit Against Kia and Hyundai to Abate Public Safety Hazard Created by Exponential Rise in Theft of Their Vehicles https://news.seattle.gov/2023/01/25/seattle-city-attorney-files-lawsuit-against-kia-and-hyundai-to-abate-public-safety-hazard-created-by-exponential-rise-in-theft-of-their-vehicles/ https://news.seattle.gov/2023/01/25/seattle-city-attorney-fi...

theGnuMe 4y ago
My 2016 sorento lx v6 has an immobilizer and uses a regular key (not a pushbutton)... I know it works cause I've tripped it.

farmaway 4y ago

Milwaukee vlogger's experience hanging out with car-stealing "Kia Boys:" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fbTrLyqL_nw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fbTrLyqL_nw Over 10,000 cars were stolen in Milwaukee in 2021. That's one stolen auto for every 60 Milwaukee residents, young and old. South Korea's full of vulnerable Kia and Hyundai vehicles, yet doesn't have this problem of teenage serial car thieves. American social dysfunction is a big part of the equation that results in the numbers above.

flerchin 4y ago
Is that true? I know the European-market cars all have an immobilizer due to regulation. I can't find evidence whether the South Korean market cars do or do not.
op00to 4y ago
Perhaps there is no market for stolen cars in South Korea. Perhaps South Korea has an immobilizer law like many other industrialized nations. Perhaps more cars are parked in secure areas in South Korea, and cars in Milwaukee are parked on streets or driveways. Perhaps there is more CCTV and other surveillance in South Korea that makes it impossible to escape with a stolen car. Not saying it's not a social issue, but there's a lot of other factors as well.
- farmaway 4y ago
  >Perhaps South Korea has an immobilizer law like many other industrialized nations. Do they? I spent a few minutes searching but couldn't find an answer.
- jewayne 4y ago
  Here in my city, at least, virtually none of the stolen Kias/Hyundais were being sold. They were being stolen by middle schoolers for joy rides. Throughout the summer of 2022, groups of kids as young as 13 were stealing a different car each day, abandoning the ride of the day when it was out of gas (or damaged to the point of being inoperable). It was pure crime of opportunity.
4y ago

Lammy 4y ago

[flagged]

ceejayoz 4y ago
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immobiliser https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immobiliser > A 2016 study in the Economic Journal finds that the immobiliser lowered the overall rate of car theft by about 40% between 1995 and 2008. Getting it stolen renders you "not allowed to drive it" pretty effectively, and it's a lot more likely than your immobilizer malfunctioning. If you don't drive a Hyundai, Kia, or a 30 year old car, chances are your car already has one.
- Lammy 4y ago
  Can't wait for the future where the interlock is tied to my personal identity instead of to a physical fob so my car can refuse to start once I've exceeded my personal quarterly energy usage.
  - Johnny555 4y ago
    They're half way there with smartphone apps that can be linked to your car to allow you to unlock and start it. All they need to do is stop issuing keyfobs.
  - CamperBob2 4y ago
    Not much of a joke -- and not something that should be downvoted -- considering that Congress has already ordered NHTSA to do that very thing with alcohol sensors [1]. 1: https://www.aclu.org/news/privacy-technology/congressional-drunk-driver-detection-mandate-raises-privacy-questions https://www.aclu.org/news/privacy-technology/congressional-d...
    - erulabs 4y ago
      It's being downvoted because it's "old man yells at cloud" mixed with paranoia and hyperbole.

kkielhofner 4y ago

From what I know all of this originated in Milwaukee with the original "Kia Boyz"[0]. It's been going on there for years - to the point where I've seen wedding invitations that explicitly state not to bring a Kia/Hyundai to Milwaukee. Additionally, car rental companies will not rent Kia/Hyundai anywhere near Milwaukee. As is the case with most car thefts they are an absolute menace to the streets. "Drive it like it's stolen" is a very real thing[1][2]. Warning - discussion on this topic gets especially racist very quickly so as usual ignore the comments. Seriously, don't even look. [0] - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fbTrLyqL_nw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fbTrLyqL_nw [1] - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YdilXqQaQZU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YdilXqQaQZU [2] - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2VJhLJsBs74 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2VJhLJsBs74

farmaway 4y ago
[flagged]
- cvhashim04 4y ago
  > Notably, South Korea has millions of the same vulnerable vehicles but no car theft epidemic. I thought the US was the only country that was shipped Kias/Hyundais without theft security measures. > Black men commit a wildly disproportionate fraction of violent crime in America. The reasons for this are complex. It is politically difficult to discuss. There it is
  - farmaway 4y ago
    An ugly and uncomfortable truth to be sure, but truth nonetheless. I live in Wisconsin near Milwaukee and face these issues daily. You can't make this bad situation any better by ignoring it.
    - BoorishBears 4y ago
      I mean black people who have have been incarcerated for any reason, violent or non-violent, account for about 1% of the Black population, so I don't think it's a lack of black people that leaves South Korea's safe? I'm a black immigrant and seeing commentary like this feels a lot like that comic of a man shoving a stick in his bike wheel and yelling out someone else's name... - But I also don't get how your original comment followed the racist comment section: White men commit a wildly disproportionate fraction of child sexual abuse in America, yet not every conversation about white men devolves into them being called names I think it speaks more to the people making the comments. Along the lines of how ChatGPT ends up being "racist against non-minorities": if you ask a comment section "What can whites do better", you'll get softballs like "be more mindful of privilege". Ask a comment section what black people can do better and you'll get something cancerous...

olliej 4y ago

They weren’t stolen because of TikTok, they were stolen because there’s no mechanical lock on the steering wheel and no requirement for the key to be present when running the car. The “usb cable” for the attack is not anything technical, it’s purely because a usb plug is approximately the same size as the socket used to house the ignition switch/key. You could also just use a screwdriver, knife, etc

dusted 4y ago

"The thefts are reportedly easy to pull off because many 2015-2019 Hyundai and Kia vehicles lack electronic immobilizers" <-- Being the unfortunate owner of an even older suzuki ignis (secondary car, don't judge), who have has a key break and lost just the damn immobilizer chip from inside the key.. (meaning I had to spend over $100 for a replacement for a security system for a car nobody would steal anyway) I'm making a mental note that a 2015 Kia is a reasonable next car. I'd pay a premium for a car with no digital electronics in the critical path (meaning I can repeair everything with a bag of diodes, resistors and capacitors)

shortcake27 4y ago
> …for a car nobody would steal anyway) I'm making a mental note that a 2015 Kia is a reasonable next car. But people are stealing the Kia’s. In bulk. That’s the issue discussed in the article. This contradicts your own reasoning about what people would want to steal. I’d rather spend $100 on the extremely rare occasion I lose or break a key than own a car that’s trivial to steal. Each to their own though.
- dusted 4y ago
  To be honest, I don't even lock my car anyway.. If people are stealing cars in bulk in a society, what that society has is not a problem with insufficient locks. But I get your point.. If I was in a place like that and couldn't get out, I'd have no choice but to learn to love the security system, even if it is an additional risk of making trouble for me.

garduque 4y ago

It looks like Hyundais are starting to get updates, anyway. I'm having trouble finding information on Kia updates.

can16358p 4y ago

Normally I hate TikTok but this time the challenge did good: auto makers should take software and security much more seriously.

kotaKat 4y ago

The best part is this 'fix' is just adding an ignition kill-switch routine that requires you unlock with the keyfob to be able to start the car, then re-lock afterwards to disable the ignition. Wonder what happens when your keyfob fails at that point - you can get in with the mechanical key, but now can't enable the ignition because you can't unlock it with the fob to signal the software. (And if they make it so you can unlock and drive with an actual mechanical key in the door disabling the system, then it only takes 30-60 more seconds for someone with a Lishi pick to pop the door open and trigger the unlock themselves.)

askvictor 4y ago

I thought immobilisers were not only standard nowadays, but a legal requirement in some places. I don't understand why they would regress on something so simple.

p0pcult 4y ago

Last summer, my piece of shit 2014 Kia Soul was stolen by our local "Kia Boyz" franchise. The thieves totaled it. I got a check for more than it was worth at the time. We were contemplating going down to one car anyway, because of permanent work from home policies. I couldn't have been happier. Oh, and fuck you Kia, your car was a piece of shit.

briHass 4y ago
Kia is a lot like the American cars of the 90s. Once you creep near 100K, major problems (or repairs that effectively total the vehicle) pop up like weeds. Their GDI, gasoline direct injection, engines are garbage: the valves and injectors get coated in carbon from the lack of a 'fuel wash', and they burn oil like crazy. The official word from Kia/Hyundai is that burning a quart of oil every 1000 miles is perfectly normal, and that you should be checking your oil level at every fill up to avoid the likely scenario where you seize the engine. Before K/H will consider that you have an issue (even with dozens of class actions filed), you need to have the dealership perform a measured oil burn test and a piston soak, all out of pocket to the owner. My wife's Kia Soul has burned so much oil that it now throws codes indicating a catalytic converter failure at <100K miles. I won't be sinking that kind of money into that trash heap. Maybe I can interest the Kia Boys in a ride? Just make sure you total it and don't hurt anybody.

CottonMcKnight 4y ago

> update the “theft alarm software logic” to extend the length of the alarm sound from 30 seconds to one minute Almost literally Steven Wright's joke: "I couldn't fix your brakes so I made your horn louder."

mrtweetyhack 4y ago

[dead]