5 ms·

Xoogler here. I'll ignore the AI and "has Google lost its way?" threads, not that they're not interesting. Rather, Sundar: he's the inevitable product when yo

Xoogler here. I'll ignore the AI and "has Google lost its way?" threads, not that they're not interesting. Rather, Sundar: he's the inevitable product when you hire a CEO based on his longevity and whether everyone likes him. In the military they distinguish between a "barracks general" and a "combat general." He's the former. He looks good when nothing bad is happening.

oofta-boofta 4y ago
Whew boy you hit the nail on the head. Google just seems to be aimless at this point, and now with the layoffs (despite their immense profitability) they're going to have a much tougher time hiring and retaining top talent.
- cheeze 4y ago
  Where is the top talent going to go? Seems like a vast majority of FAANG* ended up laying folks off.
  - applecrazy 4y ago
    I would make the argument that top talent wasn’t the contingent that was laid off.
    - raydev 4y ago
      You would be provably wrong.
      - applecrazy 4y ago
        > provably wrong How so? I don't see any examples of top talent being fired (barring the scuffles at Twitter, but that isn't FAANG). Most people on my LinkedIn feed being let go are new grads or middle management who ostensibly didn't perform to company expectations of perfromance.
- warning26 4y ago
  I don't understand why the board hasn't ousted Sundar yet -- has he even spearheaded a single successful initiative that wasn't sunsetted within a few years? Seems like you could make an LLM generate product ideas and it would be about equally effective.
  - tadfisher 4y ago
    Chrome and ChromeOS come to mind. But he wasn't CEO then.
    - AlbertCory 4y ago
      As I recall (someone correct me on timing?) he was actually in charge of Chrome for a long time.
  - daydream 4y ago
    > I don't understand why the board hasn't ousted Sundar yet They didn’t realize they were at war until about 3 months ago. That’s why. It takes time.
    - Corrado 4y ago
      This is why I think Google is in real trouble. They really don't recognize that they could fail. It's kinda like you can't smell yourself and don't realize you stink, until everyone leaves the party because of it.
  - AlbertCory 4y ago
    Offhand, I don't remember who's on Alphabet's board, but let's take two other leading candidates for Worst Board of All Time: Yahoo's: had an offer from Microsoft for ~$33B in 2004 or so, declined, and later hired Marissa Mayer. Eventually sold to Verizon for ~$4B. HP's: hired Carly Fiorina, Mark Hurd, Léo Apotheker, and then Meg Whitman Modern boards rarely act in any sort of timely manner.
    - evanelias 4y ago
- pphysch 4y ago
  Microsoft's GitHub, which is apparently at the forefront of the "LLM revolution" with Copilot, also announced significant cost-cuts. What's your point?
  - bigfoot675 4y ago
    Totally unrelated point to the person you're replying to
    - pphysch 4y ago
      The topic of "layoffs" is, in fact, directly related to the topic of "layoffs and other cost-cutting". Google being "aimless" is pure speculation.
MisterPea 4y ago
See also Buggins' Turn: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buggins%27_turn https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buggins%27_turn
- AlbertCory 4y ago
  I hadn't heard that one, and having read all 20 of the Aubrey/Maturin books twice, I'm not unfamiliar with the Royal Navy. Thanks!
itsdrewmiller 4y ago
Sounds like Ben Horowitz's peacetime CEO/wartime CEO, which even uses google as an example - https://a16z.com/2011/04/14/peacetime-ceo-wartime-ceo https://a16z.com/2011/04/14/peacetime-ceo-wartime-ceo
- AlbertCory 4y ago
  > Peacetime CEO spends time defining the culture. Wartime CEO lets the war define the culture. Beautifully put. I knew there was some reason why I'm so irresistibly drawn to books about warfare. Patton in WW II was the quintessential wartime general. Even though it WAS a war, his style was too much for Eisenhower. Until the Battle of the Bulge.
  - matwood 4y ago
    You touched on something else I wanted to mention - that there is nothing wrong with a peacetime general as long as you're not at war. Your point about Patton is spot on, he needs a war or his style is too much. I see this in startups. The people/leadership you need to go from 0->1 are often not the same people to go from 1->N. To bring this back around to Google. People are talking about the CEO, but does Google have the rank and file ready to go to war?
    - AlbertCory 4y ago
      having been out for 5 1/2 years, I can't say for sure. But even in 2017, there were a large number of "born on third base and think they hit a triple" people.
  - dc-programmer 4y ago
    I consider Grant the ultimate when the rubber hits the road guy. In his interbellum years he was kind of an aimless loser but when the stakes could not be higher, he stepped up and lead the union to victory.

oofta-boofta 4y ago

Whew boy you hit the nail on the head. Google just seems to be aimless at this point, and now with the layoffs (despite their immense profitability) they're going to have a much tougher time hiring and retaining top talent.

cheeze 4y ago
Where is the top talent going to go? Seems like a vast majority of FAANG* ended up laying folks off.
- applecrazy 4y ago
  I would make the argument that top talent wasn’t the contingent that was laid off.
  - raydev 4y ago
    You would be provably wrong.
    - applecrazy 4y ago
      > provably wrong How so? I don't see any examples of top talent being fired (barring the scuffles at Twitter, but that isn't FAANG). Most people on my LinkedIn feed being let go are new grads or middle management who ostensibly didn't perform to company expectations of perfromance.
warning26 4y ago
I don't understand why the board hasn't ousted Sundar yet -- has he even spearheaded a single successful initiative that wasn't sunsetted within a few years? Seems like you could make an LLM generate product ideas and it would be about equally effective.
- tadfisher 4y ago
  Chrome and ChromeOS come to mind. But he wasn't CEO then.
  - AlbertCory 4y ago
    As I recall (someone correct me on timing?) he was actually in charge of Chrome for a long time.
- daydream 4y ago
  > I don't understand why the board hasn't ousted Sundar yet They didn’t realize they were at war until about 3 months ago. That’s why. It takes time.
  - Corrado 4y ago
    This is why I think Google is in real trouble. They really don't recognize that they could fail. It's kinda like you can't smell yourself and don't realize you stink, until everyone leaves the party because of it.
- AlbertCory 4y ago
  Offhand, I don't remember who's on Alphabet's board, but let's take two other leading candidates for Worst Board of All Time: Yahoo's: had an offer from Microsoft for ~$33B in 2004 or so, declined, and later hired Marissa Mayer. Eventually sold to Verizon for ~$4B. HP's: hired Carly Fiorina, Mark Hurd, Léo Apotheker, and then Meg Whitman Modern boards rarely act in any sort of timely manner.
  - evanelias 4y ago
pphysch 4y ago
Microsoft's GitHub, which is apparently at the forefront of the "LLM revolution" with Copilot, also announced significant cost-cuts. What's your point?
- bigfoot675 4y ago
  Totally unrelated point to the person you're replying to
  - pphysch 4y ago
    The topic of "layoffs" is, in fact, directly related to the topic of "layoffs and other cost-cutting". Google being "aimless" is pure speculation.

MisterPea 4y ago

See also Buggins' Turn: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buggins%27_turn https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buggins%27_turn

AlbertCory 4y ago
I hadn't heard that one, and having read all 20 of the Aubrey/Maturin books twice, I'm not unfamiliar with the Royal Navy. Thanks!

itsdrewmiller 4y ago

Sounds like Ben Horowitz's peacetime CEO/wartime CEO, which even uses google as an example - https://a16z.com/2011/04/14/peacetime-ceo-wartime-ceo https://a16z.com/2011/04/14/peacetime-ceo-wartime-ceo

AlbertCory 4y ago
> Peacetime CEO spends time defining the culture. Wartime CEO lets the war define the culture. Beautifully put. I knew there was some reason why I'm so irresistibly drawn to books about warfare. Patton in WW II was the quintessential wartime general. Even though it WAS a war, his style was too much for Eisenhower. Until the Battle of the Bulge.
- matwood 4y ago
  You touched on something else I wanted to mention - that there is nothing wrong with a peacetime general as long as you're not at war. Your point about Patton is spot on, he needs a war or his style is too much. I see this in startups. The people/leadership you need to go from 0->1 are often not the same people to go from 1->N. To bring this back around to Google. People are talking about the CEO, but does Google have the rank and file ready to go to war?
  - AlbertCory 4y ago
    having been out for 5 1/2 years, I can't say for sure. But even in 2017, there were a large number of "born on third base and think they hit a triple" people.
- dc-programmer 4y ago
  I consider Grant the ultimate when the rubber hits the road guy. In his interbellum years he was kind of an aimless loser but when the stakes could not be higher, he stepped up and lead the union to victory.