9 ms·

In the long run, sure. In the short to medium term, though, they solidly dominate the field. We're still in that phase phase of both Tesla and Bing AI.

matthewdgreen 4y ago
In the short term Google has an utterly dominant position in Search, and Bing AI is basically irrelevant to this. What people are worried about are the implications for the long term.
- mynameisvlad 4y ago
  The comment you replied to makes no mentions of timelines, and everything they said applies up to the point the first mover falls, which is clearly not the long term per your own argument. The goal posts also aren't "search" they're "AI enhanced search", let's not muddy the waters by moving them. Google may certainly be dominating in search, but they are clearly trying to sprint from miles behind in the latter.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
- darthrupert 4y ago
  I don't give a fuck about Bing, frankly, but ChatGPT (the actual first mover here) has already replaced a lot of what I used Google for during a work day. I'll be their paying customer soon. It would be great if that meant I had privacy as well, but I kinda bleakly realize that that might be a bit of a pipe dream.
  - philliphaydon 4y ago
    Over the past 2 weeks I’ve barely used Google. I just ask ChatGPT. The results it produces are just superior to Google in every way.
  - l33tman 4y ago
    The big improvement in the chatgpt integrated by bing is that it can take today's search results into the chat to analyze seamlessly (after all, Bing already has all the search results cached internally). ChatGPT as it stands has old knowledge only unless you paste in the results you want to analyze.
- gjsman-1000 4y ago
  If I were the EU, I would perhaps consider slapping restrictions on Google's Chat AI (say, Bard) as being a separate field (AI-Assisted Search) being propped up by a monopoly in Standard Search. That would hurt Google's dominance quicker than any other action. Same for the DOJ. Remember how much trouble Microsoft got into for having a basic monopoly on desktops with Windows, and trying to bundle Internet Explorer? Replace Windows with Standard Google, and Internet Explorer with AI-based Google Search. You'll cut Google off at the knees with that move. And even if they survive the ~4-5 years litigation, they'll be severely hampered, kind of like how Microsoft was with the mobile phone market.
- monkmartinez 4y ago
  I have switched to Bing and Edge, then wrote a script to rack up points in hopes that I get moved up for the new BingGPT. Google search results have been trending toward crap for a while from my POV. 'Google it' is sticky, but I absolutely have not missed a beat with Edge and Bing. In fact, Edge has been a really pleasant surprise with features Chrome doesn't have. A calculator in the side bar is fracking awesome!
  - phkahler 4y ago
    >> A calculator in the side bar is fracking awesome! Another case of the browser doing what the OS and Desktop environment should be doing. I like to point at tabs - DEs and GUI toolkits never really came up with a good way to handle multiple documents well.
    - mynameisvlad 4y ago
      I think every major OS ships with some sort of calculator. The problem is discoverability. If you're in the middle of browsing, it's quite a bit of effort to say "oh that's right I have a calculator on here let me just find it in the start menu/Applications folder" as opposed to it just being there in the same app you're already using. Widgets would be a potential solution but they keep being tried and abandoned soon after in desktop OSes.
      - mejutoco 4y ago
        In linux I press the super key (windows key), type "calc" and enter. In Mac Os one can use spotlight with cmd + space with similar results. Or sometimes I check a calculator I implemented myself (shameless plug: https://getcalculator.app/ https://getcalculator.app/)
        mynameisvlad 4y ago
        I mean, you can do Win+R and then "calc" on windows too, but that's still context switching and having to remember it's there. Once again, compared to it just being there in front of you and ready to go that's still work to do to get it there.
nwienert 4y ago
Bing isn't dominating anything haha.
- mynameisvlad 4y ago
  I mean, they certainly are in the "AI integrated search" field, considering.... You know.... This entire post and discussion happening.
  - matthewdgreen 4y ago
    Google isn't going to suffer severe business consequences for (temporarily) losing dominance in the "AI integrated search" field, because the revenue from that field is effectively NaN compared to Google's current revenue. They might hypothetically suffer if AI integrated search grows to become a major fraction of the existing Search revenue and Google fails to deploy their massive existing ML/AI resources to match Bing/OpenAI's unpatented, non-secret and easily-replicated techniques. And big firms have made such strategic errors in the past! But none of that is going to happen in the short term.
    - mynameisvlad 4y ago
      Please show me exactly where I said otherwise. Read the comment thread you just replied to and tell me how any of what you just said is relevant to me correcting the sentence "Bing isn't dominating anything haha."
      - robertlagrant 4y ago
        Good point. It's also dominating in the segment of "web search companies called Bing".
      - nwienert 4y ago
        You said they are dominating "AI search" but that's wrong in many ways: - Google's entire search engine has had many layers of "AI" powering it for years. - Bing hasn't even released this supposed AI search engine to the public. Your other example was Tesla and the two examples couldn't be more different. Your statement would be like someone saying Tesla was "dominating" electric cars before they ever even sold a single Roadster and had just posted a demo video. It's just wrong. I can be first to market with a banana that glows in the dark, am I in the club now too? They may dominate if this exact form of conversational answers proves popular and if launched more than a hacked together demo and only then is some strong claim they are doing anything interesting could be worthwhile. Until then they are kind-of first-but-actually-not-really in a kind-of-theoretical-market, and not dominating it all or reaping any first-mover advantage given their opponents are ready to follow on immediately.
rootusrootus 4y ago
It will be interesting to see how the next few years play out in the EV space. Tesla suddenly has actual competition that is very good. Arguably better, aside from that nagging little detail -- the charger network. Tesla needs to keep throwing money at the Supercharger network and do whatever they can to keep it exclusive. Anything that puts the competition on an equal playing field for fast charging would be devastating to Tesla's market share.
- mynameisvlad 4y ago
  Yes, I'm quite excited to see the new EVs coming out in the next few years. Still like my Tesla but the list of grievances grows over time. I think they'll ultimately have to open up the charging to get federal funding, but it'll be interesting to see what happens when they do. It's definitely a massive advantage right now.
- whamlastxmas 4y ago
  It's unlikely Tesla's market share of the total car market is going to go down no matter how well other companies do. What we're seeing is a general shift towards electric cars, which is only a good thing for Tesla.
  - rootusrootus 4y ago
    Yes, in this case when I say 'market share' I mean EV market share.
    - whamlastxmas 4y ago
      My point is more that you used the word "devastating" when there's nothing negative happening to Tesla in that situation
- p4coder 4y ago
  I think the charging network is going to prove to be the iMessage of Tesla. By keeping it closed, they will be selling many more cars. In Europe where they had to use the standard port and open the network, there will be much stiffer competition.

matthewdgreen 4y ago

In the short term Google has an utterly dominant position in Search, and Bing AI is basically irrelevant to this. What people are worried about are the implications for the long term.

mynameisvlad 4y ago
The comment you replied to makes no mentions of timelines, and everything they said applies up to the point the first mover falls, which is clearly not the long term per your own argument. The goal posts also aren't "search" they're "AI enhanced search", let's not muddy the waters by moving them. Google may certainly be dominating in search, but they are clearly trying to sprint from miles behind in the latter.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
darthrupert 4y ago
I don't give a fuck about Bing, frankly, but ChatGPT (the actual first mover here) has already replaced a lot of what I used Google for during a work day. I'll be their paying customer soon. It would be great if that meant I had privacy as well, but I kinda bleakly realize that that might be a bit of a pipe dream.
- philliphaydon 4y ago
  Over the past 2 weeks I’ve barely used Google. I just ask ChatGPT. The results it produces are just superior to Google in every way.
- l33tman 4y ago
  The big improvement in the chatgpt integrated by bing is that it can take today's search results into the chat to analyze seamlessly (after all, Bing already has all the search results cached internally). ChatGPT as it stands has old knowledge only unless you paste in the results you want to analyze.
gjsman-1000 4y ago
If I were the EU, I would perhaps consider slapping restrictions on Google's Chat AI (say, Bard) as being a separate field (AI-Assisted Search) being propped up by a monopoly in Standard Search. That would hurt Google's dominance quicker than any other action. Same for the DOJ. Remember how much trouble Microsoft got into for having a basic monopoly on desktops with Windows, and trying to bundle Internet Explorer? Replace Windows with Standard Google, and Internet Explorer with AI-based Google Search. You'll cut Google off at the knees with that move. And even if they survive the ~4-5 years litigation, they'll be severely hampered, kind of like how Microsoft was with the mobile phone market.
monkmartinez 4y ago
I have switched to Bing and Edge, then wrote a script to rack up points in hopes that I get moved up for the new BingGPT. Google search results have been trending toward crap for a while from my POV. 'Google it' is sticky, but I absolutely have not missed a beat with Edge and Bing. In fact, Edge has been a really pleasant surprise with features Chrome doesn't have. A calculator in the side bar is fracking awesome!
- phkahler 4y ago
  >> A calculator in the side bar is fracking awesome! Another case of the browser doing what the OS and Desktop environment should be doing. I like to point at tabs - DEs and GUI toolkits never really came up with a good way to handle multiple documents well.
  - mynameisvlad 4y ago
    I think every major OS ships with some sort of calculator. The problem is discoverability. If you're in the middle of browsing, it's quite a bit of effort to say "oh that's right I have a calculator on here let me just find it in the start menu/Applications folder" as opposed to it just being there in the same app you're already using. Widgets would be a potential solution but they keep being tried and abandoned soon after in desktop OSes.
    - mejutoco 4y ago
      In linux I press the super key (windows key), type "calc" and enter. In Mac Os one can use spotlight with cmd + space with similar results. Or sometimes I check a calculator I implemented myself (shameless plug: https://getcalculator.app/ https://getcalculator.app/)
      - mynameisvlad 4y ago
        I mean, you can do Win+R and then "calc" on windows too, but that's still context switching and having to remember it's there. Once again, compared to it just being there in front of you and ready to go that's still work to do to get it there.

nwienert 4y ago

Bing isn't dominating anything haha.

mynameisvlad 4y ago
I mean, they certainly are in the "AI integrated search" field, considering.... You know.... This entire post and discussion happening.
- matthewdgreen 4y ago
  Google isn't going to suffer severe business consequences for (temporarily) losing dominance in the "AI integrated search" field, because the revenue from that field is effectively NaN compared to Google's current revenue. They might hypothetically suffer if AI integrated search grows to become a major fraction of the existing Search revenue and Google fails to deploy their massive existing ML/AI resources to match Bing/OpenAI's unpatented, non-secret and easily-replicated techniques. And big firms have made such strategic errors in the past! But none of that is going to happen in the short term.
  - mynameisvlad 4y ago
    Please show me exactly where I said otherwise. Read the comment thread you just replied to and tell me how any of what you just said is relevant to me correcting the sentence "Bing isn't dominating anything haha."
    - robertlagrant 4y ago
      Good point. It's also dominating in the segment of "web search companies called Bing".
    - nwienert 4y ago
      You said they are dominating "AI search" but that's wrong in many ways: - Google's entire search engine has had many layers of "AI" powering it for years. - Bing hasn't even released this supposed AI search engine to the public. Your other example was Tesla and the two examples couldn't be more different. Your statement would be like someone saying Tesla was "dominating" electric cars before they ever even sold a single Roadster and had just posted a demo video. It's just wrong. I can be first to market with a banana that glows in the dark, am I in the club now too? They may dominate if this exact form of conversational answers proves popular and if launched more than a hacked together demo and only then is some strong claim they are doing anything interesting could be worthwhile. Until then they are kind-of first-but-actually-not-really in a kind-of-theoretical-market, and not dominating it all or reaping any first-mover advantage given their opponents are ready to follow on immediately.

rootusrootus 4y ago

It will be interesting to see how the next few years play out in the EV space. Tesla suddenly has actual competition that is very good. Arguably better, aside from that nagging little detail -- the charger network. Tesla needs to keep throwing money at the Supercharger network and do whatever they can to keep it exclusive. Anything that puts the competition on an equal playing field for fast charging would be devastating to Tesla's market share.

mynameisvlad 4y ago
Yes, I'm quite excited to see the new EVs coming out in the next few years. Still like my Tesla but the list of grievances grows over time. I think they'll ultimately have to open up the charging to get federal funding, but it'll be interesting to see what happens when they do. It's definitely a massive advantage right now.
whamlastxmas 4y ago
It's unlikely Tesla's market share of the total car market is going to go down no matter how well other companies do. What we're seeing is a general shift towards electric cars, which is only a good thing for Tesla.
- rootusrootus 4y ago
  Yes, in this case when I say 'market share' I mean EV market share.
  - whamlastxmas 4y ago
    My point is more that you used the word "devastating" when there's nothing negative happening to Tesla in that situation
p4coder 4y ago
I think the charging network is going to prove to be the iMessage of Tesla. By keeping it closed, they will be selling many more cars. In Europe where they had to use the standard port and open the network, there will be much stiffer competition.