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The problem with statement's like yours is that there is no evidence to support the things you are saying. - "I am a firm believer that 100% remote work as act

The problem with statement's like yours is that there is no evidence to support the things you are saying. - "I am a firm believer that 100% remote work as actually a net negative for collaboration." You're entitled to your beliefs, but they are just that. I'd hate to see companies making decisions based on "feelings" they have in regards to one format being more effective than another. - "Workshops, ideation, brainstorming, all of these thrive when people are engaged in the moment, not on a scheduled zoom call." I'll counter your anecdote with my own: I've observed no difference.

MAGZine 4y ago
"there's no evidence to support the things you are saying, but they're wrong." Is it really hard to believe that activities that rely on communication thrive in environments that support high-bandwidth communication? nb: lack of evidence does not substantiate the absence of something, it may mean nobody has bothered to collect the evidence (or that the evidence is difficult to capture).
- rybosworld 4y ago
  Why did you append "but they're wrong" to my quote? That's not different than lying.
  - MAGZine 4y ago
    It's not lying, that's how your comment came across to me. It was extremely dismissive. A simple 'but could you provide evidence?' would be fine. But no--it was more akin to "there is no evidence, your argument is invalid." Maybe you didn't use the word 'wrong', but you did dismiss their opinion without consideration, and then proceeded to commit the same fallacy so as to prove a point. So not only was your comment dismissive, but it was devoid of content or constructive conversation. Actually, the inclusion of the counter example actually made it the opposite of constructive imo. Why participate in the same rhetoric you're throwing out, even for example, when what you're saying is already quite clear? This isn't debate club. It's a conversation.
    - rybosworld 4y ago
      "It's not lying, that's how your comment came across to me" - altering a quotation in order to change it's meaning is lying. The fact that you interpreted what I said in your own way does not change that. The OP's argument is invalid because there is no evidence. It seems silly to discuss that point further. "proceeded to commit the same fallacy so as to prove a point" - what fallacy is that? I never made any broad assertions and stated them as fact. I even stated that I was providing my own anecdote. The OP did the opposite. That is, they stated their anecdotal experience as fact. How any of this could be misinterpreted is beyond understanding, and is a you problem. In my opinion, it seems like you are having a reading comprehension issue here.
      - MAGZine 4y ago
        You've fundamentally missed the point that I was making in order to take more 'technically correct' potshots. Perhaps you should try to internalize the whole of my comment (i.e. comprehend it) before trying to reply again. Sniping individual pieces by being needlessly pedantic is--again--not productive to conversation. Anyhow, I won't be replying again unless if you have something constructive to add to the conversation; I'm not interested in debate club with you. Perhaps ChatGPT is though!
- lordnacho 4y ago
  He's just saying "your word is as good as mine". Neither side is bringing any evidence. You can throw in all sorts of argumentation, eg remote people have more time, you can get better people casting a wider net, and so on. But until someone does a proper study you don't know what arguments are backed up by data.
danielrpa 4y ago
And I'll add my own anecdote: the top performers on the 100+ software engineer org I work in are either fully remote or mostly remote. Losing our fully remote people would be catastrophic to the team. Collaboration with them is extremely easy, even from different time zones. On the days I go to my office, all I observe is people wearing headphones to be able to focus. Team lunches are nice, but we never talk about work. As I've already developed personal connections with my coworkers, I could go months without seeing them in person (as a matter of fact, that's what happens with my coworkers who live across the country). The famous "whiteboarding sessions where ideas are born" can be easily done remotely, or in one off events in the office if people who believe in office work insist. I found shared docs and basic digital whiteboards allowing me to draw rectangles, arrows and labels as efficient than physical chalk/marker boards. Why? Because the hard work is on the ideas and conversations, not the drawing. Also anecdotally, in 10+ years of office work, I've never observed a single "watercooler conversation" leading to a particularly interesting idea. I generally hear sports, weather chat and complaints about the food by the watercooler. Oh, have you seen that? I'll counter that with the dozens of non-watercooler conversations that led to interesting ideas.
- rybosworld 4y ago
  I always laugh when I hear the importance of "watercooler conversation" in birthing new ideas.
- macNchz 4y ago
  > On the days I go to my office, all I observe is people wearing headphones to be able to focus. It's funny to hear all this hand wringing about the loss of spontaneous collaboration in offices, because in 10 years of working in tech offices in NYC, this was by far the dominant pattern: dozens of people sitting in a big open room wearing noise canceling headphones, talking to each other on Slack.
- slotrans 4y ago
  > Also anecdotally, in 10+ years of office work, I've never observed a single "watercooler conversation" leading to a particularly interesting idea. I have. Happens all the time. > The famous "whiteboarding sessions where ideas are born" can be easily done remotely Really? How? All the tools are garbage and none have the tactility of a marker.
Ferret7446 4y ago
You're posting on an article that is literally evidence supporting this perspective.

MAGZine 4y ago

"there's no evidence to support the things you are saying, but they're wrong." Is it really hard to believe that activities that rely on communication thrive in environments that support high-bandwidth communication? nb: lack of evidence does not substantiate the absence of something, it may mean nobody has bothered to collect the evidence (or that the evidence is difficult to capture).

rybosworld 4y ago
Why did you append "but they're wrong" to my quote? That's not different than lying.
- MAGZine 4y ago
  It's not lying, that's how your comment came across to me. It was extremely dismissive. A simple 'but could you provide evidence?' would be fine. But no--it was more akin to "there is no evidence, your argument is invalid." Maybe you didn't use the word 'wrong', but you did dismiss their opinion without consideration, and then proceeded to commit the same fallacy so as to prove a point. So not only was your comment dismissive, but it was devoid of content or constructive conversation. Actually, the inclusion of the counter example actually made it the opposite of constructive imo. Why participate in the same rhetoric you're throwing out, even for example, when what you're saying is already quite clear? This isn't debate club. It's a conversation.
  - rybosworld 4y ago
    "It's not lying, that's how your comment came across to me" - altering a quotation in order to change it's meaning is lying. The fact that you interpreted what I said in your own way does not change that. The OP's argument is invalid because there is no evidence. It seems silly to discuss that point further. "proceeded to commit the same fallacy so as to prove a point" - what fallacy is that? I never made any broad assertions and stated them as fact. I even stated that I was providing my own anecdote. The OP did the opposite. That is, they stated their anecdotal experience as fact. How any of this could be misinterpreted is beyond understanding, and is a you problem. In my opinion, it seems like you are having a reading comprehension issue here.
    - MAGZine 4y ago
      You've fundamentally missed the point that I was making in order to take more 'technically correct' potshots. Perhaps you should try to internalize the whole of my comment (i.e. comprehend it) before trying to reply again. Sniping individual pieces by being needlessly pedantic is--again--not productive to conversation. Anyhow, I won't be replying again unless if you have something constructive to add to the conversation; I'm not interested in debate club with you. Perhaps ChatGPT is though!
lordnacho 4y ago
He's just saying "your word is as good as mine". Neither side is bringing any evidence. You can throw in all sorts of argumentation, eg remote people have more time, you can get better people casting a wider net, and so on. But until someone does a proper study you don't know what arguments are backed up by data.

danielrpa 4y ago

And I'll add my own anecdote: the top performers on the 100+ software engineer org I work in are either fully remote or mostly remote. Losing our fully remote people would be catastrophic to the team. Collaboration with them is extremely easy, even from different time zones. On the days I go to my office, all I observe is people wearing headphones to be able to focus. Team lunches are nice, but we never talk about work. As I've already developed personal connections with my coworkers, I could go months without seeing them in person (as a matter of fact, that's what happens with my coworkers who live across the country). The famous "whiteboarding sessions where ideas are born" can be easily done remotely, or in one off events in the office if people who believe in office work insist. I found shared docs and basic digital whiteboards allowing me to draw rectangles, arrows and labels as efficient than physical chalk/marker boards. Why? Because the hard work is on the ideas and conversations, not the drawing. Also anecdotally, in 10+ years of office work, I've never observed a single "watercooler conversation" leading to a particularly interesting idea. I generally hear sports, weather chat and complaints about the food by the watercooler. Oh, have you seen that? I'll counter that with the dozens of non-watercooler conversations that led to interesting ideas.

rybosworld 4y ago
I always laugh when I hear the importance of "watercooler conversation" in birthing new ideas.
macNchz 4y ago
> On the days I go to my office, all I observe is people wearing headphones to be able to focus. It's funny to hear all this hand wringing about the loss of spontaneous collaboration in offices, because in 10 years of working in tech offices in NYC, this was by far the dominant pattern: dozens of people sitting in a big open room wearing noise canceling headphones, talking to each other on Slack.
slotrans 4y ago
> Also anecdotally, in 10+ years of office work, I've never observed a single "watercooler conversation" leading to a particularly interesting idea. I have. Happens all the time. > The famous "whiteboarding sessions where ideas are born" can be easily done remotely Really? How? All the tools are garbage and none have the tactility of a marker.

Ferret7446 4y ago

You're posting on an article that is literally evidence supporting this perspective.