11 ms·

im so tired of non-substance rust content on hn. i dont want to know THAT it is written in rust (shocking, i know!) I want to know WHAT made it better to be in

by aliqot 4y ago

im so tired of non-substance rust content on hn. i dont want to know THAT it is written in rust (shocking, i know!) I want to know WHAT made it better to be in rust rather than x. I'd read the shit out of an article about that. its starting to become a meme cheatcode, just add "in rust!" to the end of your post title and you'll get a baseline starter pack of hn votes

ClapperHeid 4y ago
I was going to add a boring "me too" reply. But then I re-wrote it in Rust and it's now 10 times more insightful!
- ihatepython 4y ago
  I am going to have to borrow this comment.
  - jonpalmisc 4y ago
    For how long?
    - SCLeo 4y ago
      For their entire 'lifetime.
mrkeen 4y ago
It's just over-correction for past criticisms of other loved languages. "Oh yeah? If X is so good, why aren't there any real software projects written in it?" etc.
pclmulqdq 4y ago
The constant Rust spam on the front page makes me think that there may be some sort of pro-rust bot that upvotes them. There probably isn't, just a lot of enthusiasm, but it's tiring. However, it has also convinced me that Rust isn't faster than C++ in practical applications, thanks to the number of "we moved our C++ codebase to Rust" blog posts that have 0 benchmarks. You can practically guarantee that if their code had gotten faster, they would have said something about it. That has dulled my enthusiasm for the language significantly. Also, it is humorous to me to see blog posts that say, "[Rust feature that causes inconvenience] enables compilers to do [compiler optimization that C++ compilers already do]."
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- imtringued 4y ago
  >Also, it is humorous to me to see blog posts that say, "[Rust feature that causes inconvenience] enables compilers to do [compiler optimization that C++ compilers already do]." What? You can't safely do strict aliasing in C++ and even if you did, it was broken anyway to the point where the Rust compiler had to disable it because of LLVM bugs. https://github.com/rust-lang/rust/issues/54878#issuecomment-429578187 https://github.com/rust-lang/rust/issues/54878#issuecomment-... https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25624538 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25624538
  - jcranmer 4y ago
    Strict aliasing maps to TBAA in LLVM; the buggy feature is noalias, which corresponds to C's restrict.
    - pclmulqdq 4y ago
      The restrict keyword historically has meant "I know these pointers are different, please optimize as though they are." It had nothing to do with correctness. It is quite tricky to check for correctness in the general case of this kind of keyword.
- xpe 4y ago
  > The constant Rust spam on the front page makes me think that there may be some sort of pro-rust bot that upvotes them. There probably isn't, just a lot of enthusiasm, but it's tiring. I get it; we all have our annoyances. Personally, the above kind of comment is tiring. Complaints about what makes the HN front page seem like a waste of energy. How can we contribute to moving the conversation forward? By "forward" I mean learning from each other, sharing ideas, and other constructive goals. P.S. If you don't want to see [keyword] in HN, there are probably browser extensions that can help you.
  - 4y ago
hdhrufjdi 4y ago
Usually everyone knows what made it better to be in Rust, especially when it comes to C and C++.
- andruby 4y ago
  N=1, but I don't always know what made it better in Rust.
- tiledjinn 4y ago
  I've never seen a need to use rust, and regularly work on small projects in C. As far as I can tell, there isn't really a compelling reason to switch.
  - surfmike 4y ago
    Security / memory safety and preventing concurrency bugs Security is an especially big one for lots of systems
    - aliqot 4y ago
      You can just toss out names of qualities and it might impress someone with no experience but to the rest of us we're just waving our hands like "ok.. and then?" waiting for the substance, which this comment provides none of
      - hardwaregeek 4y ago
        I'm not sure I agree. If anything someone with experience has first-hand knowledge of the perils of buffer overflows, double frees, and other memory bugs. Sure we can go into more detail but it's a little disingenuous to act as if someone with experience writing C would not be able to fill in the blanks.
        aliqot 4y ago
        >someone with experience writing C would not be able to fill in the blanks. "yeah well if you're smart you wouldn't need explanation" except the people you're swaying with such remarks aren't the ones who already know, its the ones who are afraid to ask lest they be judged so they just kinda laugh along and parrot the smartest-bully.
timeon 4y ago
> shocking, i know! How is most generic comment under HN Rust topic shocking?
turtlebits 4y ago
Rust and Golang projects are generally more interesting as they generally are small static binaries and have the lowest friction to try out/deploy. It's almost the opposite effect of all the comments that appear on Electron projects regarding bloat.
agumonkey 4y ago
There was an accumulation of trust in the fact that most rust rewrites would yield interesting results. So the gates are wide open now.

by aliqot 4y ago

ClapperHeid 4y ago

I was going to add a boring "me too" reply. But then I re-wrote it in Rust and it's now 10 times more insightful!

ihatepython 4y ago
I am going to have to borrow this comment.
- jonpalmisc 4y ago
  For how long?
  - SCLeo 4y ago
    For their entire 'lifetime.

mrkeen 4y ago

It's just over-correction for past criticisms of other loved languages. "Oh yeah? If X is so good, why aren't there any real software projects written in it?" etc.

pclmulqdq 4y ago

The constant Rust spam on the front page makes me think that there may be some sort of pro-rust bot that upvotes them. There probably isn't, just a lot of enthusiasm, but it's tiring. However, it has also convinced me that Rust isn't faster than C++ in practical applications, thanks to the number of "we moved our C++ codebase to Rust" blog posts that have 0 benchmarks. You can practically guarantee that if their code had gotten faster, they would have said something about it. That has dulled my enthusiasm for the language significantly. Also, it is humorous to me to see blog posts that say, "[Rust feature that causes inconvenience] enables compilers to do [compiler optimization that C++ compilers already do]."

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
imtringued 4y ago
>Also, it is humorous to me to see blog posts that say, "[Rust feature that causes inconvenience] enables compilers to do [compiler optimization that C++ compilers already do]." What? You can't safely do strict aliasing in C++ and even if you did, it was broken anyway to the point where the Rust compiler had to disable it because of LLVM bugs. https://github.com/rust-lang/rust/issues/54878#issuecomment-429578187 https://github.com/rust-lang/rust/issues/54878#issuecomment-... https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25624538 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25624538
- jcranmer 4y ago
  Strict aliasing maps to TBAA in LLVM; the buggy feature is noalias, which corresponds to C's restrict.
  - pclmulqdq 4y ago
    The restrict keyword historically has meant "I know these pointers are different, please optimize as though they are." It had nothing to do with correctness. It is quite tricky to check for correctness in the general case of this kind of keyword.
xpe 4y ago
> The constant Rust spam on the front page makes me think that there may be some sort of pro-rust bot that upvotes them. There probably isn't, just a lot of enthusiasm, but it's tiring. I get it; we all have our annoyances. Personally, the above kind of comment is tiring. Complaints about what makes the HN front page seem like a waste of energy. How can we contribute to moving the conversation forward? By "forward" I mean learning from each other, sharing ideas, and other constructive goals. P.S. If you don't want to see [keyword] in HN, there are probably browser extensions that can help you.
- 4y ago

hdhrufjdi 4y ago

Usually everyone knows what made it better to be in Rust, especially when it comes to C and C++.

andruby 4y ago
N=1, but I don't always know what made it better in Rust.
tiledjinn 4y ago
I've never seen a need to use rust, and regularly work on small projects in C. As far as I can tell, there isn't really a compelling reason to switch.
- surfmike 4y ago
  Security / memory safety and preventing concurrency bugs Security is an especially big one for lots of systems
  - aliqot 4y ago
    You can just toss out names of qualities and it might impress someone with no experience but to the rest of us we're just waving our hands like "ok.. and then?" waiting for the substance, which this comment provides none of
    - hardwaregeek 4y ago
      I'm not sure I agree. If anything someone with experience has first-hand knowledge of the perils of buffer overflows, double frees, and other memory bugs. Sure we can go into more detail but it's a little disingenuous to act as if someone with experience writing C would not be able to fill in the blanks.
      - aliqot 4y ago
        >someone with experience writing C would not be able to fill in the blanks. "yeah well if you're smart you wouldn't need explanation" except the people you're swaying with such remarks aren't the ones who already know, its the ones who are afraid to ask lest they be judged so they just kinda laugh along and parrot the smartest-bully.

timeon 4y ago

> shocking, i know! How is most generic comment under HN Rust topic shocking?

turtlebits 4y ago

Rust and Golang projects are generally more interesting as they generally are small static binaries and have the lowest friction to try out/deploy. It's almost the opposite effect of all the comments that appear on Electron projects regarding bloat.

agumonkey 4y ago

There was an accumulation of trust in the fact that most rust rewrites would yield interesting results. So the gates are wide open now.