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Given how short employees tend to stay at companies, long term impact seems to be a founder only concern. As an employee, I simply don’t give a damn if I creat

Given how short employees tend to stay at companies, long term impact seems to be a founder only concern. As an employee, I simply don’t give a damn if I create 10 liabilities in 5 years as I won’t be there in 5 years. Creating $10 of future costs for $1 in profit is a great deal for me. I want a quick buck, my bonus, and to move on to the next thing.

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
FL410 4y ago
Wow. I appreciate the perspective, but it’s hard for me to even understand how a person could operate that way.
- wccrawford 4y ago
  I think after enough companies treat you that way, it becomes a lot easier. I don't work that way, and I've been with my company for about 12 years now I think. But after watching the recent tech layoffs, it's pretty obvious that tech companies aren't thinking about their employees futures, just the present. The ones that don't give a generous severance are the worst, but even with that it can be rather difficult to find a new job... Especially one that you like. Many, many companies think of employees merely in terms of the money, and not how they're disrupting that person's life. It doesn't surprise me that there are non-managers that think and act the same way towards the company.
- throwawaysleep 4y ago
  Simple. Pivot to thinking of yourself as a corporation of 1, with the goal of maximizing your personal profit for minimal cost. Would a company cut quality to increase profit? Yes? Then so should you.
- Jcampuzano2 4y ago
  Simple - do the same things companies do. Optimize for profit. I honestly could give a rats ass what a companies profits are in 5 years since I won't be there. "Where do you see yourself in 5 years" - "not here because you 100% won't increase pay commensurate with market rate" Its relatively simple to see how people could operate that way, because companies don't actually care about employees. They're a line item for profit generation.
- antisthenes 4y ago
  Simple. You look at how companies are operating, how they are treating employees, how they are chasing short-term financial performance over long-term sustainability and simply mirror their behavior on an individual level. Personally, I am only invested in a company to the degree of making my immediate coworkers happy and making it easier for them to do work. I don't care about the long term (5-10 year timeline) success of the strategic goals for 2 reasons: 1. The company is not invested in me in the long term. 2. I don't have strategic visibility to make improvements anyway, because I am not an executive, so it makes no sense to worry about something I can't control.
grugagag 4y ago
Yeah, but this will bite you as well when other people do it and you have to fix it. Or I guess you’ll always go look for low hanging fruit and run away from any responsibility/accountability forever. But even that bites back at some point or another when you run out of luck
- throwawaysleep 4y ago
  Whether or not I do it, I get bit by others doing it. Whether or not the guy before me leaves a pile of crap behind is not determined by me.
  - latexr 4y ago
    > Whether or not I do it, I get bit by others doing it. You could choose to stop the cycle instead of biting the next person down the line just because you were bitten by someone unrelated. > Whether or not the guy before me leaves a pile of crap behind is not determined by me. Maybe not directly, but it does play a part. When no one cares about doing things right, even the ones who did care get fatigued and stop. The way to fix the situation is to be better yourself, thus giving others the chance to be at their best.
    - grugagag 4y ago
      Ive done it a few times. Simplified everything and moved on to other projects only to see the the project be evolved by other into an unorganized pile of crap. I also got laughed at for not using sime pattern or framework du jour
- Jcampuzano2 4y ago
  I mean this is sort of how things already work, so much so that the trope of "the old devs didn't know shit" and memes about needing to replace everything or crapping on legacy code when starting a new job is talked about daily among devs. I'm not really worried about what other people do because when I have to fix it, I'll be being paid to, and so would the next guy after me. If companies don't feel responsible for treating employees well/not turning their backs on them in the sake of profit then I feel 0 responsibility for anything I leave behind when I'm gone.
hef19898 4y ago
Considering how many founders only stayed around until the whole thing is pushed to retail investors, I think long term is relative.
blululu 4y ago
There are many reasons to leave a company. Tech companies are frequently fundamentally unstable operations. In my opinion experience employee churn is more a matter of the environment than the individual and their plans.
gamechangr 4y ago
I dont think many employee's have this mindset. This mindset would contribute to the issue and would be one that I would have not considered...so I thank you for your transparency.
GeneralAntilles 4y ago
If everybody defects everybody loses and the world gets a little worse with each cycle. Sucks to be the guy cooperating in this scenario, but it's the only way to start clawing things back from the brink.

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

FL410 4y ago

Wow. I appreciate the perspective, but it’s hard for me to even understand how a person could operate that way.

wccrawford 4y ago
I think after enough companies treat you that way, it becomes a lot easier. I don't work that way, and I've been with my company for about 12 years now I think. But after watching the recent tech layoffs, it's pretty obvious that tech companies aren't thinking about their employees futures, just the present. The ones that don't give a generous severance are the worst, but even with that it can be rather difficult to find a new job... Especially one that you like. Many, many companies think of employees merely in terms of the money, and not how they're disrupting that person's life. It doesn't surprise me that there are non-managers that think and act the same way towards the company.
throwawaysleep 4y ago
Simple. Pivot to thinking of yourself as a corporation of 1, with the goal of maximizing your personal profit for minimal cost. Would a company cut quality to increase profit? Yes? Then so should you.
Jcampuzano2 4y ago
Simple - do the same things companies do. Optimize for profit. I honestly could give a rats ass what a companies profits are in 5 years since I won't be there. "Where do you see yourself in 5 years" - "not here because you 100% won't increase pay commensurate with market rate" Its relatively simple to see how people could operate that way, because companies don't actually care about employees. They're a line item for profit generation.
antisthenes 4y ago
Simple. You look at how companies are operating, how they are treating employees, how they are chasing short-term financial performance over long-term sustainability and simply mirror their behavior on an individual level. Personally, I am only invested in a company to the degree of making my immediate coworkers happy and making it easier for them to do work. I don't care about the long term (5-10 year timeline) success of the strategic goals for 2 reasons: 1. The company is not invested in me in the long term. 2. I don't have strategic visibility to make improvements anyway, because I am not an executive, so it makes no sense to worry about something I can't control.

grugagag 4y ago

Yeah, but this will bite you as well when other people do it and you have to fix it. Or I guess you’ll always go look for low hanging fruit and run away from any responsibility/accountability forever. But even that bites back at some point or another when you run out of luck

throwawaysleep 4y ago
Whether or not I do it, I get bit by others doing it. Whether or not the guy before me leaves a pile of crap behind is not determined by me.
- latexr 4y ago
  > Whether or not I do it, I get bit by others doing it. You could choose to stop the cycle instead of biting the next person down the line just because you were bitten by someone unrelated. > Whether or not the guy before me leaves a pile of crap behind is not determined by me. Maybe not directly, but it does play a part. When no one cares about doing things right, even the ones who did care get fatigued and stop. The way to fix the situation is to be better yourself, thus giving others the chance to be at their best.
  - grugagag 4y ago
    Ive done it a few times. Simplified everything and moved on to other projects only to see the the project be evolved by other into an unorganized pile of crap. I also got laughed at for not using sime pattern or framework du jour
Jcampuzano2 4y ago
I mean this is sort of how things already work, so much so that the trope of "the old devs didn't know shit" and memes about needing to replace everything or crapping on legacy code when starting a new job is talked about daily among devs. I'm not really worried about what other people do because when I have to fix it, I'll be being paid to, and so would the next guy after me. If companies don't feel responsible for treating employees well/not turning their backs on them in the sake of profit then I feel 0 responsibility for anything I leave behind when I'm gone.

hef19898 4y ago

Considering how many founders only stayed around until the whole thing is pushed to retail investors, I think long term is relative.

blululu 4y ago

There are many reasons to leave a company. Tech companies are frequently fundamentally unstable operations. In my opinion experience employee churn is more a matter of the environment than the individual and their plans.

gamechangr 4y ago

I dont think many employee's have this mindset. This mindset would contribute to the issue and would be one that I would have not considered...so I thank you for your transparency.

GeneralAntilles 4y ago

If everybody defects everybody loses and the world gets a little worse with each cycle. Sucks to be the guy cooperating in this scenario, but it's the only way to start clawing things back from the brink.