7 ms·

Go Ahead and Ban My Book

23 points by sohkamyung 4y ago

ajsnigrutin 4y ago
> To those who seek to stop young people from reading The Handmaid’s Tale: Good luck with that. It’ll only make them want to read it more. This is a double edged sword... On one hand, yes, kids will be more interested into why it's banned, and at first might be more interested to read it. On the other hand... kids might expect too much ("if it was banned, it must be real 'bad'"), and then be disappointed with the lack of stuff they expected. ...but this might be just a cultural thing, since here in europe, in the balkans, boobs and asses are visible in public adspaces, while US had the 'nipplegate', and we didn't have any real censorship since the fall of yugoslavia and communism.. (...well, until the EU started banning russian media... which again, made more people distrust eu and watch the russian media with soe workarounds). If a book got banned here, I'd expect at least a lot of graphic (as much as text in a book allows) sex, drugs and other illegal stuff when I was a kid. If I then got eg. Catcher in the rye, I'd be disapointed.
- hirundo 4y ago
  I read Breakfast of Champions, around age 14, only because I saw that it was not kept with the general library collection, and was told that children needed permission to read it. My mom was reluctant but agreed, and that was my introduction to Vonnegut. I liked it. That underlined an interest in things singled out like that. For instance I read the cancelled stories on HN first, and while the signal-to-noise ratio is low I've found an unusual number of pearls in that pile too. If you want me to read something forbidding it is a great sales pitch. It's a shame that I've already read Margaret Atwood's oeuvre since now I can't read her with that extra spice.
- denton-scratch 4y ago
  > On the other hand... kids might expect too much That was my experience with Lady Chatterley's Lover, and with Sexus. These books were not in my school's library, but copies circulated. It was easy to find the "dirty" bits, because the books fell open at those pages. I found both books pretty disappointing. I'm strongly against attempts to control young people's minds. If kids want to read a book, that's a good thing. If it's a book written for adults, that speaks to the kids' reading age and maturity; just because someone is at highschool doesn't mean they're childish. And if they are childish, then they'll likely close the book soon after opening it. US democracy is weird. Elections for sherriffs, judges and school-library censors seems bizarre to me.
DoItToMe81 4y ago
Banning something this minute and benign is ridiculous, but I can assure you, nobody at all below the age of 40 wants to read The Handsmaid's Tale.
- bwb 4y ago
  Eh, its selling like hot cakes?
  - aliqot 4y ago
    sir, take your hands off the question mark slowly
- p0pcult 4y ago
  Rather than assurances, how about some data?
  - bryanrasmussen 4y ago
    I think the data on viewership implies they're wrong https://www.statista.com/statistics/741790/the-handmaids-tale-viewership-usa-by-age/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/741790/the-handmaids-tal... assuming that viewership leads to people buying the book. on edit: https://www.pluggedin.com/book-reviews/handmaids-tale/#:~:text=Book%20Review&text=The%20Handmaid%27s%20Tale%20is%20written,in%20a%20student%27s%20junior%20year https://www.pluggedin.com/book-reviews/handmaids-tale/#:~:te.... The Handmaid’s Tale is written for adults but appears on high school reading lists, often in a student’s junior year. which I guess is why this whole conversation is happening.
- BaculumMeumEst 4y ago
  you can’t be serious
- yamtaddle 4y ago
  I read it some time between ages 18 and 23. No, not as a class assignment. And there wasn't a show out at the time. And I'm a dude. It's totally the kind of thing I'd have read in high school if I'd known about it then.
Pinegulf 4y ago
Say no to censorship. This includes the all idiots no matter if they fly woke or right wing banners.
- spacephysics 4y ago
  This is a high school library, not censorship from the government. You can still buy the book, or find the book in a town’s public library. I agree say no to censorship, but schools need to fit a common denominator, and let the parents decide when and how to expand that when parenting.
  - Nicksil 4y ago
    >This is a high school library, not censorship from the government. This is a public school. It is precisely censorship from the government.
    - luuuzeta 4y ago
      >This is a public school. It is precisely censorship from the government. It's not censorship from the government. Parents need and should have a say about what it's taught to their children in public schools. Government censorship would be the government preventing anyone from buying or borrowing through any legal mean, and penalizing those who read it.
      - Nicksil 4y ago
        >Government censorship would be the government preventing anyone from buying or borrowing through any legal mean, and penalizing those who read it. You're describing some thing being outlawed. A government may censor information that is otherwise available via legal alternative avenues of delivery.
      - denton-scratch 4y ago
        > Parents need and should have a say about what it's taught to their children in public schools. I strongly disagree. If parents think they know better how to educate children than professional teachers, they're free to homeschool. Most voters are not educators, and what materials are appropriate for educational purposes isn't a matter that should be put to a vote of the general population.
spacephysics 4y ago
There’s a difference from banning a book in public libraries (or even Amazon) vs a school board saying it’s not appropriate in school libraries. The former I agree has the reaction of the Streisand effect (like Dr Seuss-gate) However if a kid can get the book from online store with relative ease, or lookup why it’s banned and find it’s benign, I don’t think it’ll have nearly the effect this article predicts. In a school setting, I’m not against the library within the school being more restricted - it should be on the parents to provide, or withhold, books from kids when they deem appropriate. And if a board elects to have a book removed, then the process worked. Let the PTA or others voice concerns, or better yet, just get the book for your kid. I’d rather have the school library too strict than too relaxed with selection. Let the parents parent. If they want to take their kid to a public library, or get the books themselves, let that happen. This isn’t some mass societal book burning
- ceejayoz 4y ago
  > And if a board elects to have a book removed, then the process worked. Is this true for all decisions by the school board? When they decide to quietly shuffle off a child molester (example: https://www.berkeleyside.org/2021/11/23/berkeley-high-knew-about-matthew-bissell-sexual-misconduct-allegations https://www.berkeleyside.org/2021/11/23/berkeley-high-knew-a...) to a different district is that the process working?
  - afarrell 4y ago
    > Is this true for all decisions by the school board? No.
    - ceejayoz 4y ago
      Then why is it true in this case, specifically?
  - spacephysics 4y ago
    That’s quite the straw man. Obviously not in the case you mentioned, but this discussion is more about cultural differences within the states vs a specific school board banning a book. It’s further a discussion on what rights parents have to expose their children to what material. Especially if one’s opinion is that these books should be forcibly allowed in the school library (not saying that’s your opinion)
aaron695 4y ago
[dead]
nhchris 4y ago
Banned by Amazon, and now from school library shelves too? And that's on top of their foundation being deplatformed by all credit cards. They really don't want us reading White Identity by Jared Taylor. Oh, it's about Handmaid's Tale, the book about what if Sharia came to the US? With a well-publicized, well-funded TV series on major networks? Available literally everywhere except school libraries in one Virginia county? They so like cloaking themselves as noble crusaders against censorship, but their crusades never go beyond their ideological doorstep.
- causi 4y ago
  They so like cloaking themselves as noble crusaders against censorship, but their crusades never go further than their ideological doorstep. Sadly that's true for almost everyone on both ends of the political spectrum. The loudest voices are rarely raised in defense of expression they despise. Most people espouse whatever set of principles most benefits their own desires, and will abandon them the moment they don't.
recuter 4y ago
The handmaidens tail is hot garbage. Banning books is stupid. Time is a flat circle, we forget and repeat all these lessons endlessly. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fahrenheit_451 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fahrenheit_451 Don't send your kids to public school and avoid the loonies screeching (of whatever politics, as far lefties and far righties are eager to ban anything and everything they don't like).
- jmull 4y ago
  > The handmaidens tail is hot garbage. I’m kind of wondering if you read the real book or a similarly named knockoff?
  - recuter 4y ago
    It is derivative in the extreme. I'm allowed to be bored by mediocrity, sorry, it doesn't take anything away from you if you enjoyed it. Quite ironic the implied peer pressure implicit in your reply - I must like it or I am so stupid as to confuse it with a knockoff. I also am not a fan of Harry Potter. These are the sort of books that are wildly popular amongst people who otherwise don't read anything at all. So I suppose it is better than nothing.
    - sircastor 4y ago
      I think they’re mostly alluding to the fact that the book’s title is The Handmaid’s Tale and not The Handmaiden’s Tale as you wrote.
      - jonsty2023 4y ago
        Handmaiden’s Tail no less
      - recuter 4y ago
        Autocorrect strikes again. My bad. Shamful Disprey.
    - matthewmacleod 4y ago
BaculumMeumEst 4y ago
https://archive.md/7FOGY https://archive.md/7FOGY
charlieyu1 4y ago
I’m more annoyed about the lack of science and maths books in libraries in general… nobody cares about political takes at the age of 13. That university level organic chemistry textbook was so much more interesting.
- sircastor 4y ago
  I think you underestimate what 13-year-olds care about. I know it’s typical to portray them as caring only about pop-culture, but kids and teenagers are surprisingly adept and aware and care about a variety of subjects. And have strong, sometimes well-informed opinions about them.
kcmastrpc 4y ago
The author is being controversial for controversy sake, the cynic in me points to "buy my banned book", but we all know how much money authors make off commission, however, this might just elevate her profile enough to collect paychecks for book signings and other appearances. I'm awfully tired of this charade. Parents have a right to petition their local school boards with regard to what the school administers provision funds toward. In reality, this story is a cover for the more questionable books the school boards have been opting out of in their institutions because the author knows if those were covered most parents would be outright disgusted and possibly mad enough to pick up a pitchfork. This isn't banning or censorship, its parents having a say what their kids are exposed to. If you don't like that, go petition your school board or buy the book yourself and read it to your child before bed.
- matthewmacleod 4y ago
  I don't think multi-award-winning, multi-millionaire, world-famous novelist Margaret Atwood is in a position where she could possibly give a flying fuck about elevating her profile. You can argue reasonably that communities, schools, and parents' groups have some level of responsibility for making decisions about the content of school libraries. But schools also have a responsibility to ensure that this doesn't stray into the effect of a government body (the school) restricting access to speech on the basis of its content (there was a whole Supreme Court case about exactly this). And beside all of that it's totally legitimate to complain about stupid decisions that you think will hurt students.
carlosjobim 4y ago
I've seen a huge push the last years to try to redefine what it means to ban a book, where political activists claim that a book is "banned" when children are no longer forced to read it in school. As no surprise, these are the same political activists who work zealously to ban anybody they disagree with from modern communication platforms.

23 points by sohkamyung 4y ago

> To those who seek to stop young people from reading The Handmaid’s Tale: Good luck with that. It’ll only make them want to read it more. This is a double edged sword... On one hand, yes, kids will be more interested into why it's banned, and at first might be more interested to read it. On the other hand... kids might expect too much ("if it was banned, it must be real 'bad'"), and then be disappointed with the lack of stuff they expected. ...but this might be just a cultural thing, since here in europe, in the balkans, boobs and asses are visible in public adspaces, while US had the 'nipplegate', and we didn't have any real censorship since the fall of yugoslavia and communism.. (...well, until the EU started banning russian media... which again, made more people distrust eu and watch the russian media with soe workarounds). If a book got banned here, I'd expect at least a lot of graphic (as much as text in a book allows) sex, drugs and other illegal stuff when I was a kid. If I then got eg. Catcher in the rye, I'd be disapointed.

hirundo 4y ago
I read Breakfast of Champions, around age 14, only because I saw that it was not kept with the general library collection, and was told that children needed permission to read it. My mom was reluctant but agreed, and that was my introduction to Vonnegut. I liked it. That underlined an interest in things singled out like that. For instance I read the cancelled stories on HN first, and while the signal-to-noise ratio is low I've found an unusual number of pearls in that pile too. If you want me to read something forbidding it is a great sales pitch. It's a shame that I've already read Margaret Atwood's oeuvre since now I can't read her with that extra spice.
denton-scratch 4y ago
> On the other hand... kids might expect too much That was my experience with Lady Chatterley's Lover, and with Sexus. These books were not in my school's library, but copies circulated. It was easy to find the "dirty" bits, because the books fell open at those pages. I found both books pretty disappointing. I'm strongly against attempts to control young people's minds. If kids want to read a book, that's a good thing. If it's a book written for adults, that speaks to the kids' reading age and maturity; just because someone is at highschool doesn't mean they're childish. And if they are childish, then they'll likely close the book soon after opening it. US democracy is weird. Elections for sherriffs, judges and school-library censors seems bizarre to me.

DoItToMe81 4y ago

Banning something this minute and benign is ridiculous, but I can assure you, nobody at all below the age of 40 wants to read The Handsmaid's Tale.

bwb 4y ago
Eh, its selling like hot cakes?
- aliqot 4y ago
  sir, take your hands off the question mark slowly
p0pcult 4y ago
Rather than assurances, how about some data?
- bryanrasmussen 4y ago
  I think the data on viewership implies they're wrong https://www.statista.com/statistics/741790/the-handmaids-tale-viewership-usa-by-age/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/741790/the-handmaids-tal... assuming that viewership leads to people buying the book. on edit: https://www.pluggedin.com/book-reviews/handmaids-tale/#:~:text=Book%20Review&text=The%20Handmaid%27s%20Tale%20is%20written,in%20a%20student%27s%20junior%20year https://www.pluggedin.com/book-reviews/handmaids-tale/#:~:te.... The Handmaid’s Tale is written for adults but appears on high school reading lists, often in a student’s junior year. which I guess is why this whole conversation is happening.
BaculumMeumEst 4y ago
you can’t be serious
yamtaddle 4y ago
I read it some time between ages 18 and 23. No, not as a class assignment. And there wasn't a show out at the time. And I'm a dude. It's totally the kind of thing I'd have read in high school if I'd known about it then.

Pinegulf 4y ago

Say no to censorship. This includes the all idiots no matter if they fly woke or right wing banners.

spacephysics 4y ago
This is a high school library, not censorship from the government. You can still buy the book, or find the book in a town’s public library. I agree say no to censorship, but schools need to fit a common denominator, and let the parents decide when and how to expand that when parenting.
- Nicksil 4y ago
  >This is a high school library, not censorship from the government. This is a public school. It is precisely censorship from the government.
  - luuuzeta 4y ago
    >This is a public school. It is precisely censorship from the government. It's not censorship from the government. Parents need and should have a say about what it's taught to their children in public schools. Government censorship would be the government preventing anyone from buying or borrowing through any legal mean, and penalizing those who read it.
    - Nicksil 4y ago
      >Government censorship would be the government preventing anyone from buying or borrowing through any legal mean, and penalizing those who read it. You're describing some thing being outlawed. A government may censor information that is otherwise available via legal alternative avenues of delivery.
    - denton-scratch 4y ago
      > Parents need and should have a say about what it's taught to their children in public schools. I strongly disagree. If parents think they know better how to educate children than professional teachers, they're free to homeschool. Most voters are not educators, and what materials are appropriate for educational purposes isn't a matter that should be put to a vote of the general population.

spacephysics 4y ago

There’s a difference from banning a book in public libraries (or even Amazon) vs a school board saying it’s not appropriate in school libraries. The former I agree has the reaction of the Streisand effect (like Dr Seuss-gate) However if a kid can get the book from online store with relative ease, or lookup why it’s banned and find it’s benign, I don’t think it’ll have nearly the effect this article predicts. In a school setting, I’m not against the library within the school being more restricted - it should be on the parents to provide, or withhold, books from kids when they deem appropriate. And if a board elects to have a book removed, then the process worked. Let the PTA or others voice concerns, or better yet, just get the book for your kid. I’d rather have the school library too strict than too relaxed with selection. Let the parents parent. If they want to take their kid to a public library, or get the books themselves, let that happen. This isn’t some mass societal book burning

ceejayoz 4y ago
> And if a board elects to have a book removed, then the process worked. Is this true for all decisions by the school board? When they decide to quietly shuffle off a child molester (example: https://www.berkeleyside.org/2021/11/23/berkeley-high-knew-about-matthew-bissell-sexual-misconduct-allegations https://www.berkeleyside.org/2021/11/23/berkeley-high-knew-a...) to a different district is that the process working?
- afarrell 4y ago
  > Is this true for all decisions by the school board? No.
  - ceejayoz 4y ago
    Then why is it true in this case, specifically?
- spacephysics 4y ago
  That’s quite the straw man. Obviously not in the case you mentioned, but this discussion is more about cultural differences within the states vs a specific school board banning a book. It’s further a discussion on what rights parents have to expose their children to what material. Especially if one’s opinion is that these books should be forcibly allowed in the school library (not saying that’s your opinion)

aaron695 4y ago

[dead]

nhchris 4y ago

Banned by Amazon, and now from school library shelves too? And that's on top of their foundation being deplatformed by all credit cards. They really don't want us reading White Identity by Jared Taylor. Oh, it's about Handmaid's Tale, the book about what if Sharia came to the US? With a well-publicized, well-funded TV series on major networks? Available literally everywhere except school libraries in one Virginia county? They so like cloaking themselves as noble crusaders against censorship, but their crusades never go beyond their ideological doorstep.

causi 4y ago
They so like cloaking themselves as noble crusaders against censorship, but their crusades never go further than their ideological doorstep. Sadly that's true for almost everyone on both ends of the political spectrum. The loudest voices are rarely raised in defense of expression they despise. Most people espouse whatever set of principles most benefits their own desires, and will abandon them the moment they don't.

recuter 4y ago

The handmaidens tail is hot garbage. Banning books is stupid. Time is a flat circle, we forget and repeat all these lessons endlessly. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fahrenheit_451 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fahrenheit_451 Don't send your kids to public school and avoid the loonies screeching (of whatever politics, as far lefties and far righties are eager to ban anything and everything they don't like).

jmull 4y ago
> The handmaidens tail is hot garbage. I’m kind of wondering if you read the real book or a similarly named knockoff?
- recuter 4y ago
  It is derivative in the extreme. I'm allowed to be bored by mediocrity, sorry, it doesn't take anything away from you if you enjoyed it. Quite ironic the implied peer pressure implicit in your reply - I must like it or I am so stupid as to confuse it with a knockoff. I also am not a fan of Harry Potter. These are the sort of books that are wildly popular amongst people who otherwise don't read anything at all. So I suppose it is better than nothing.
  - sircastor 4y ago
    I think they’re mostly alluding to the fact that the book’s title is The Handmaid’s Tale and not The Handmaiden’s Tale as you wrote.
    - jonsty2023 4y ago
      Handmaiden’s Tail no less
    - recuter 4y ago
      Autocorrect strikes again. My bad. Shamful Disprey.
  - matthewmacleod 4y ago

BaculumMeumEst 4y ago

https://archive.md/7FOGY https://archive.md/7FOGY

charlieyu1 4y ago

I’m more annoyed about the lack of science and maths books in libraries in general… nobody cares about political takes at the age of 13. That university level organic chemistry textbook was so much more interesting.

sircastor 4y ago
I think you underestimate what 13-year-olds care about. I know it’s typical to portray them as caring only about pop-culture, but kids and teenagers are surprisingly adept and aware and care about a variety of subjects. And have strong, sometimes well-informed opinions about them.

kcmastrpc 4y ago

The author is being controversial for controversy sake, the cynic in me points to "buy my banned book", but we all know how much money authors make off commission, however, this might just elevate her profile enough to collect paychecks for book signings and other appearances. I'm awfully tired of this charade. Parents have a right to petition their local school boards with regard to what the school administers provision funds toward. In reality, this story is a cover for the more questionable books the school boards have been opting out of in their institutions because the author knows if those were covered most parents would be outright disgusted and possibly mad enough to pick up a pitchfork. This isn't banning or censorship, its parents having a say what their kids are exposed to. If you don't like that, go petition your school board or buy the book yourself and read it to your child before bed.

matthewmacleod 4y ago
I don't think multi-award-winning, multi-millionaire, world-famous novelist Margaret Atwood is in a position where she could possibly give a flying fuck about elevating her profile. You can argue reasonably that communities, schools, and parents' groups have some level of responsibility for making decisions about the content of school libraries. But schools also have a responsibility to ensure that this doesn't stray into the effect of a government body (the school) restricting access to speech on the basis of its content (there was a whole Supreme Court case about exactly this). And beside all of that it's totally legitimate to complain about stupid decisions that you think will hurt students.

carlosjobim 4y ago

I've seen a huge push the last years to try to redefine what it means to ban a book, where political activists claim that a book is "banned" when children are no longer forced to read it in school. As no surprise, these are the same political activists who work zealously to ban anybody they disagree with from modern communication platforms.