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okay.. but at this point ukraine has recieved more money/material than years worth of russian military budgets. Where is the victory? Also, what is it? is russ

okay.. but at this point ukraine has recieved more money/material than years worth of russian military budgets. Where is the victory? Also, what is it? is russia 100% incompetent, or is it a fiendish foe? We have had to hear for a year now about how russia is so totally inept that ukranian farmers are victorious against them using nothing both farming tractors, but at the same time the west must send ungodly amounts of money and material their way, and there is no victory. Which one is it? It seems the west is willing to fight to the last ukranian. I just dont see how the west meddling here is gonna make any outcome better. So far nothing indicates I am wrong.

wkat4242 4y ago
We haven't sent them that much of actual material and most of that is outdated. A lot has been promised but deliveries outfit scheduled years from now. Money is useful but you can't shoot it, and a lot of Ukrainian capital is lost because of the war. And the most important resource, soldiers, is the one thing we can't send them. And Russia can just conscript as many as they want. And it's Ukraine itself that wants their territories back, including Crimea and Donbass. Making it hard to negotiate. But also understandable, once you start giving in, you're giving Russia an incentive to do it all over again and capture now territory.
- glogla 4y ago
  > But also understandable, once you start giving in, you're giving Russia an incentive to do it all over again and capture now territory. Not just Russia. If Russia succeeds, China is invading Taiwan next, and the whole global economy is grinding to a halt because like 80 % of world semiconductor industry is there. Saving Ukraine means saving the world.
  - wkat4242 4y ago
    I don't think these issues are linked to be honest. China has a very different strategy. More plotting and long-term scheming, less brute force like Russia. They'll sneak their way in just like they're rapidly expanding their influence in Africa, buying European ports and airports etc. Their tactics are completely different and our response must be as well. Of course long-term planning is the biggest weakness of democracies and the CCP's strength. So I doubt we'll be able to prevent it.
    - JumpCrisscross 4y ago
      > plotting and long-term scheming, less brute force like Russia The way Xi screwed the pooch on Hong Kong, something Beijing was without controversy entitled to, looks more like an impatient dictator than the China of decades prior.
      - wkat4242 4y ago
        That's true, Xi is really changing the game. It's a bit surprising because he's set himself up as dictator for life. However his life is finite and I wonder if he wanted some legacy. Similar to the reason why Putin attacked Ukraine.
imtringued 4y ago
>It seems the west is willing to fight to the last ukranian. "The west" isn't fighting unless you mean "the west" = Ukraine and nothing else.
- pasquinelli 4y ago
  they're saying the west is willing to sacrifice every ukrainian to weaken russia.
_kbh_ 4y ago
> I just dont see how the west meddling here is gonna make any outcome better. So far nothing indicates I am wrong. The west sending weapons reduces the amount of Ukrainians who are killed by Russians or under Russian occupation. This is unambiguously a good thing.
trasz3 4y ago
>Where is the victory? Here: https://www.oryxspioenkop.com/2022/02/attack-on-europe-documenting-equipment.html https://www.oryxspioenkop.com/2022/02/attack-on-europe-docum.... Russia already lost about half of its entire available land forces.

wkat4242 4y ago

We haven't sent them that much of actual material and most of that is outdated. A lot has been promised but deliveries outfit scheduled years from now. Money is useful but you can't shoot it, and a lot of Ukrainian capital is lost because of the war. And the most important resource, soldiers, is the one thing we can't send them. And Russia can just conscript as many as they want. And it's Ukraine itself that wants their territories back, including Crimea and Donbass. Making it hard to negotiate. But also understandable, once you start giving in, you're giving Russia an incentive to do it all over again and capture now territory.

glogla 4y ago
> But also understandable, once you start giving in, you're giving Russia an incentive to do it all over again and capture now territory. Not just Russia. If Russia succeeds, China is invading Taiwan next, and the whole global economy is grinding to a halt because like 80 % of world semiconductor industry is there. Saving Ukraine means saving the world.
- wkat4242 4y ago
  I don't think these issues are linked to be honest. China has a very different strategy. More plotting and long-term scheming, less brute force like Russia. They'll sneak their way in just like they're rapidly expanding their influence in Africa, buying European ports and airports etc. Their tactics are completely different and our response must be as well. Of course long-term planning is the biggest weakness of democracies and the CCP's strength. So I doubt we'll be able to prevent it.
  - JumpCrisscross 4y ago
    > plotting and long-term scheming, less brute force like Russia The way Xi screwed the pooch on Hong Kong, something Beijing was without controversy entitled to, looks more like an impatient dictator than the China of decades prior.
    - wkat4242 4y ago
      That's true, Xi is really changing the game. It's a bit surprising because he's set himself up as dictator for life. However his life is finite and I wonder if he wanted some legacy. Similar to the reason why Putin attacked Ukraine.

imtringued 4y ago

>It seems the west is willing to fight to the last ukranian. "The west" isn't fighting unless you mean "the west" = Ukraine and nothing else.

pasquinelli 4y ago
they're saying the west is willing to sacrifice every ukrainian to weaken russia.

_kbh_ 4y ago

> I just dont see how the west meddling here is gonna make any outcome better. So far nothing indicates I am wrong. The west sending weapons reduces the amount of Ukrainians who are killed by Russians or under Russian occupation. This is unambiguously a good thing.

trasz3 4y ago

>Where is the victory? Here: https://www.oryxspioenkop.com/2022/02/attack-on-europe-documenting-equipment.html https://www.oryxspioenkop.com/2022/02/attack-on-europe-docum.... Russia already lost about half of its entire available land forces.