6 ms·

I'm willing to bet every other company that can will be hybrid work, come in at least x days over y time. You won't retain talent if your competitors are more

I'm willing to bet every other company that can will be hybrid work, come in at least x days over y time. You won't retain talent if your competitors are more flexible. Unless you pay an "absurd" amount to have me come in every day, and at that point you're just wasting money on me and your oversized office.

varjag 4y ago
RN tech talent is getting desperate to keep any job out there, perks or not.
- lillecarl 4y ago
  Right now as in this very moment? Maybe people are more careful what they wish for, but how many of these fired people will go unemployed? I bet most land a position pretty much anywhere they point, I'm still getting LinkedIn recruiter spam daily.
  - phpisthebest 4y ago
    >> I'm still getting LinkedIn recruiter spam daily. yea and they have not filled those positions for a reason.... >>Right now as in this very moment? Ironically it is very regional. Some areas in the US are seeing very high unemployment numbers. Largely because most remote work has dried up, and the few companies still doing remote limit to states where they have an office so you can not just "live anywhere" like the promise of FT WFH was
    - nradov 4y ago
      Which specific areas are seeing high unemployment numbers? https://www.bls.gov/news.release/empsit.nr0.htm https://www.bls.gov/news.release/empsit.nr0.htm
  - varjag 4y ago
    No not really. I know people who were at multiples of FAANG who struggle to find jobs for months now (SWEs & SREs). Certainly noone's going to snub an offer for lack of remote.
    - ZephyrBlu 4y ago
      What was their previous comp and what companies are they applying for? If you're looking for half a mil comp at top tech companies, yeah it's going to slim pickings.
    - ptero 4y ago
      Also, there is (a non-unsurmountable) hurdle of coming from FAANG in that hiring managers suspect that someone coming from a FAANG to a much less cushy position simply wants to sit out a downturn or a burndown before jumping back.
      - pm90 4y ago
        I feel like this is true for any employee.
    - rebeccaskinner 4y ago
      > Certainly noone's going to snub an offer for lack of remote. I wouldn't take a non-remote job until it's that or homelessnes. I need to optimize for the long term viability of my career, and that means avoiding long-covid, which in turn means avoiding working in an office.
      - varjag 4y ago
        Sure. When you're out of job for months a foreclosure becomes increasingly less hypothetical.
        rebeccaskinner 4y ago
        Certainly for most people there’s a point where there’s no choice left and if your only option is to work on-site then that’s what you’ll have to do. My point was simply that there are a lot of people, myself included, who would snub an on-sight offer as long as there are other options. I see a lot of people assuming that remote work is merely a preference, but for a lot of people it’s a lot more than that. Avoiding contracting Covid in the office is a difference between life and death for some people- and the difference between a productive long term career or a struggle to eek out a living in the face of long term disabilities due to long covid for others.
  - moneywoes 4y ago
    Are you a senior, i seem to be missing these
  - randomdata 4y ago
    > I'm still getting LinkedIn recruiter spam daily. As long as it hasn't intensified, I guess. If you start getting a lot more recruiter spam then you'll know that the jobs are few and far between. The easier it is for employers to hire the picker they'll be, which makes things much, much harder for recruiters to find a good fit and more pressure to be the person responsible for filling the position to keep their own job.
phpisthebest 4y ago
Well I am probably not your normal worker, but for me WFH is soooooooo far down on the list of "must haves" for an employer that it may as well not be on the list my Top 10 for a new employer 1. Pay 2. Hours / On Call 3. Vacation / PTO 4. Health Insurance quality / cost 5. Team Fit / Corporate Culture 6. Total Work Load / Back Log 7. Tech Debt of the Organization 8. Financial Debt of the Organization 9. How many Layoffs have you had in the last 12 months t0 2 years 10. How many open positions do you currently have organization wide WFH does not even make the top 10 factors
- ElevenLathe 4y ago
  I would put WFH at the top of my list but only because it is the only reasonable way to have 1,2 and 3 above. If I have to live in SFO or ATX, the pay would have to be so absurdly better than remoting in from small-town Michigan, that likely no one will pay it. Same for hours -- I'm not commuting 1.5 hours each way to the affordable housing in these areas. Same for PTO: I effectively have tons more living near family since I don't have to hoard it to use for family reunions, Thanksgiving, etc. I can do all these things without using PTO, and therefore am able to go on real vacations instead. Sure, I'll come into your office every day if you 1) let me work 5 hours a day instead of 8 (to account for the commute) 2) give me double the vacation so I can spend Thanksgiving/Christmas/4th of July/Super Bowl Sunday/Labor Day/etc with family, never miss a wedding, and also have enough left for a week on Lake Huron in the summer and a winter-time jaunt somewhere warm 3) increase my pay to account for the housing cost difference in whatever post-industrial NIMBY hellscape your office is in and my current home. There's also corporate culture. I find that I don't want to work with a team that has difficulty connecting via email/chat/videocon and feel they require constant meatspace contact. Usually this means a lot of "alpha" type personalities that need to press the flesh to get their half-baked agendas pushed through on others' backs. On the other hand, if you are disciplined enough to be able to collaborate via email and the occasional quick call, then you probably aren't a ripoff artist.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  - 4y ago
ghaff 4y ago
That seems far and away the most common outcome for a lot of knowledge workers. More flexibility than the "bad old days" but not fully remote in the mountains somewhere either. There will be fully remote jobs but it's not going to be the norm at most companies. And I suspect that people who are fully remote at companies that mostly aren't may feel at a disadvantage.
foolinaround 4y ago
> at that point you're just wasting money on me and your oversized office. Some industries and companies have so much margins that they are willing to spend that much more... It may be only those industries which have really tight margins and/or large numbers of employees that benefit from having them remote or in different geos.
- lotsofpulp 4y ago
  Or businesses where their potential employees have few better options so they can afford to not offer work from home.

varjag 4y ago

RN tech talent is getting desperate to keep any job out there, perks or not.

lillecarl 4y ago
Right now as in this very moment? Maybe people are more careful what they wish for, but how many of these fired people will go unemployed? I bet most land a position pretty much anywhere they point, I'm still getting LinkedIn recruiter spam daily.
- phpisthebest 4y ago
  >> I'm still getting LinkedIn recruiter spam daily. yea and they have not filled those positions for a reason.... >>Right now as in this very moment? Ironically it is very regional. Some areas in the US are seeing very high unemployment numbers. Largely because most remote work has dried up, and the few companies still doing remote limit to states where they have an office so you can not just "live anywhere" like the promise of FT WFH was
  - nradov 4y ago
    Which specific areas are seeing high unemployment numbers? https://www.bls.gov/news.release/empsit.nr0.htm https://www.bls.gov/news.release/empsit.nr0.htm
- varjag 4y ago
  No not really. I know people who were at multiples of FAANG who struggle to find jobs for months now (SWEs & SREs). Certainly noone's going to snub an offer for lack of remote.
  - ZephyrBlu 4y ago
    What was their previous comp and what companies are they applying for? If you're looking for half a mil comp at top tech companies, yeah it's going to slim pickings.
  - ptero 4y ago
    Also, there is (a non-unsurmountable) hurdle of coming from FAANG in that hiring managers suspect that someone coming from a FAANG to a much less cushy position simply wants to sit out a downturn or a burndown before jumping back.
    - pm90 4y ago
      I feel like this is true for any employee.
  - rebeccaskinner 4y ago
    > Certainly noone's going to snub an offer for lack of remote. I wouldn't take a non-remote job until it's that or homelessnes. I need to optimize for the long term viability of my career, and that means avoiding long-covid, which in turn means avoiding working in an office.
    - varjag 4y ago
      Sure. When you're out of job for months a foreclosure becomes increasingly less hypothetical.
      - rebeccaskinner 4y ago
        Certainly for most people there’s a point where there’s no choice left and if your only option is to work on-site then that’s what you’ll have to do. My point was simply that there are a lot of people, myself included, who would snub an on-sight offer as long as there are other options. I see a lot of people assuming that remote work is merely a preference, but for a lot of people it’s a lot more than that. Avoiding contracting Covid in the office is a difference between life and death for some people- and the difference between a productive long term career or a struggle to eek out a living in the face of long term disabilities due to long covid for others.
- moneywoes 4y ago
  Are you a senior, i seem to be missing these
- randomdata 4y ago
  > I'm still getting LinkedIn recruiter spam daily. As long as it hasn't intensified, I guess. If you start getting a lot more recruiter spam then you'll know that the jobs are few and far between. The easier it is for employers to hire the picker they'll be, which makes things much, much harder for recruiters to find a good fit and more pressure to be the person responsible for filling the position to keep their own job.

phpisthebest 4y ago

Well I am probably not your normal worker, but for me WFH is soooooooo far down on the list of "must haves" for an employer that it may as well not be on the list my Top 10 for a new employer 1. Pay 2. Hours / On Call 3. Vacation / PTO 4. Health Insurance quality / cost 5. Team Fit / Corporate Culture 6. Total Work Load / Back Log 7. Tech Debt of the Organization 8. Financial Debt of the Organization 9. How many Layoffs have you had in the last 12 months t0 2 years 10. How many open positions do you currently have organization wide WFH does not even make the top 10 factors

ElevenLathe 4y ago
I would put WFH at the top of my list but only because it is the only reasonable way to have 1,2 and 3 above. If I have to live in SFO or ATX, the pay would have to be so absurdly better than remoting in from small-town Michigan, that likely no one will pay it. Same for hours -- I'm not commuting 1.5 hours each way to the affordable housing in these areas. Same for PTO: I effectively have tons more living near family since I don't have to hoard it to use for family reunions, Thanksgiving, etc. I can do all these things without using PTO, and therefore am able to go on real vacations instead. Sure, I'll come into your office every day if you 1) let me work 5 hours a day instead of 8 (to account for the commute) 2) give me double the vacation so I can spend Thanksgiving/Christmas/4th of July/Super Bowl Sunday/Labor Day/etc with family, never miss a wedding, and also have enough left for a week on Lake Huron in the summer and a winter-time jaunt somewhere warm 3) increase my pay to account for the housing cost difference in whatever post-industrial NIMBY hellscape your office is in and my current home. There's also corporate culture. I find that I don't want to work with a team that has difficulty connecting via email/chat/videocon and feel they require constant meatspace contact. Usually this means a lot of "alpha" type personalities that need to press the flesh to get their half-baked agendas pushed through on others' backs. On the other hand, if you are disciplined enough to be able to collaborate via email and the occasional quick call, then you probably aren't a ripoff artist.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- 4y ago

ghaff 4y ago

That seems far and away the most common outcome for a lot of knowledge workers. More flexibility than the "bad old days" but not fully remote in the mountains somewhere either. There will be fully remote jobs but it's not going to be the norm at most companies. And I suspect that people who are fully remote at companies that mostly aren't may feel at a disadvantage.

foolinaround 4y ago

> at that point you're just wasting money on me and your oversized office. Some industries and companies have so much margins that they are willing to spend that much more... It may be only those industries which have really tight margins and/or large numbers of employees that benefit from having them remote or in different geos.

lotsofpulp 4y ago
Or businesses where their potential employees have few better options so they can afford to not offer work from home.