7 ms·

I don't get it. Do you have a something against British people?

by weberer 4y ago

foldr 4y ago
They’re not all men. I am British myself, FWIW.
- baobabKoodaa 4y ago
  Can you point to an example where a non-lad is utilizing the CoC to suppress opposition in this issue?
  - foldr 4y ago
    In the tweet, ‘lads’ refers to ‘the Go maintainers’ referenced in the first paragraph.
    - baobabKoodaa 4y ago
      No, it doesn't. It refers to the subset of Go maintainers who are (allegedly) using the CoC to suppress opposition. I ask again: which specific Go-maintainers have both suppressed opposition with CoC and also are non-lads?
      - foldr 4y ago
        Anyone can read the tweet and decide for themselves. To me the intended reference is clear. The “Go maintainers” are accused of doing various things in the first paragraph and are then referred to in the second paragraph as ‘lads’; no salient subset is introduced as a potential discourse referent. In any case, my comment was obviously based on my own understanding of what was said. > the Go maintainers are now claiming that objectors to Google's opt-out telemetry proposal on the Go compiler - yes, really - are arguing in bad faith and violating the Code of Conduct, and their comments are getting hidden. > well done lads, you just keep doing that as hard as possible. i'm sure it'll work out great.
        baobabKoodaa 4y ago
        > The “Go maintainers” are accused of doing various things in the first paragraph and are then referred to in the second paragraph as ‘lads’; no salient subset is introduced as a potential discourse referent. The accusation does not state that each and every Go maintainer is personally doing this. The accusation is targeted at "the Go maintainers" who are (allegedly) doing this.
        foldr 4y ago
        The poster is vague about who exactly who they’re accusing of what. I can’t read their mind, so I can’t tell you if all the people they are thinking of are men or not. But I can tell you who they refer to in their tweet: the Go maintainers. If at any point they wish to make a more specific accusation, then the full resources of the English language are available to them.
- lib-dev 4y ago
  In my mind, when people say "lads","guys" or "mankind", I just think "people". Does anyone really think they're litterally talking about men only? I feel like this kind of comment is just used to dismiss people.
  - matthewmacleod 4y ago
    I feel like this kind of comment is exactly the problem, isn’t it? From what you’ve said - in your mind, addressing a group of people as “lads” makes no comment on their gender. Some people will definitely agree with that and not be bothered at all. But I don’t find it even slightly hard to imagine that if I were a woman in a group being addressed as “lads” that I might kinda bristle at at, as I know some people do. It’s just weird to me that anybody’s first reaction to this sort of thing would be to double-down on “actually guys is gender-neutral” instead of just thinking “good point” and making a mental note for the future.
  - super256 4y ago
    I thought this too, but apparently there is a whole palette of female versions for dude, guy, lad etc. [1]. I only heard “gals” before, never lasses or dudeens. And the “gals” also only occurred in spoken form, I’ve never read it anywhere (although I consume a lot of english media). Maybe it’s because I’m not a native speaker. In Germany we have a huge gap between daily/ business communication and the communication from authorities. The latter don’t write „Sehr geehrte Studenten“, but „Sehr geehrte Student:innen“, so I suspect something similar is happening here too. [1] https://www.quora.com/What-is-the-feminine-word-for-lad https://www.quora.com/What-is-the-feminine-word-for-lad
  - foldr 4y ago
    That’s why a “lads’ mag” is a magazine aimed at all genders, right? Not sure if you are British, but ‘lads’ has a much stronger gender connotation than ‘guys’ etc. There’s also a female counterpart of the word (lass).
    - yamtaddle 4y ago
      American English speaker here. At least in the region where I live, "lads" is definitely gendered (plus uncommon and old-fashioned sounding and, applied to adults, a bit insulting), but "guys" isn't—which leads to friction when we interact with people from areas where, I gather, "guys" remains strongly gendered.
- Y_Y 4y ago
  Fwiw I think being British is a good sign that you do have something against British people. Also, at least in my social sphere, the gender-neutral "lads" has been popular for many years, alongside its male-only counterpart.
  - matthewmacleod 4y ago
    I have in my entire British lifetime literally never heard “lads” refer to a mixed-gender group of people, in the way that “guys” often is. Not to say it doesn’t exist, but I have just never encountered it at all.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- Yizahi 4y ago
  As far as I know mer, beastfolk and daedra don't exist on Earth, so only men remain. :)

I don't get it. Do you have a something against British people?

foldr 4y ago

They’re not all men. I am British myself, FWIW.

baobabKoodaa 4y ago
Can you point to an example where a non-lad is utilizing the CoC to suppress opposition in this issue?
- foldr 4y ago
  In the tweet, ‘lads’ refers to ‘the Go maintainers’ referenced in the first paragraph.
  - baobabKoodaa 4y ago
    No, it doesn't. It refers to the subset of Go maintainers who are (allegedly) using the CoC to suppress opposition. I ask again: which specific Go-maintainers have both suppressed opposition with CoC and also are non-lads?
    - foldr 4y ago
      Anyone can read the tweet and decide for themselves. To me the intended reference is clear. The “Go maintainers” are accused of doing various things in the first paragraph and are then referred to in the second paragraph as ‘lads’; no salient subset is introduced as a potential discourse referent. In any case, my comment was obviously based on my own understanding of what was said. > the Go maintainers are now claiming that objectors to Google's opt-out telemetry proposal on the Go compiler - yes, really - are arguing in bad faith and violating the Code of Conduct, and their comments are getting hidden. > well done lads, you just keep doing that as hard as possible. i'm sure it'll work out great.
      - baobabKoodaa 4y ago
        > The “Go maintainers” are accused of doing various things in the first paragraph and are then referred to in the second paragraph as ‘lads’; no salient subset is introduced as a potential discourse referent. The accusation does not state that each and every Go maintainer is personally doing this. The accusation is targeted at "the Go maintainers" who are (allegedly) doing this.
        foldr 4y ago
        The poster is vague about who exactly who they’re accusing of what. I can’t read their mind, so I can’t tell you if all the people they are thinking of are men or not. But I can tell you who they refer to in their tweet: the Go maintainers. If at any point they wish to make a more specific accusation, then the full resources of the English language are available to them.
lib-dev 4y ago
In my mind, when people say "lads","guys" or "mankind", I just think "people". Does anyone really think they're litterally talking about men only? I feel like this kind of comment is just used to dismiss people.
- matthewmacleod 4y ago
  I feel like this kind of comment is exactly the problem, isn’t it? From what you’ve said - in your mind, addressing a group of people as “lads” makes no comment on their gender. Some people will definitely agree with that and not be bothered at all. But I don’t find it even slightly hard to imagine that if I were a woman in a group being addressed as “lads” that I might kinda bristle at at, as I know some people do. It’s just weird to me that anybody’s first reaction to this sort of thing would be to double-down on “actually guys is gender-neutral” instead of just thinking “good point” and making a mental note for the future.
- super256 4y ago
  I thought this too, but apparently there is a whole palette of female versions for dude, guy, lad etc. [1]. I only heard “gals” before, never lasses or dudeens. And the “gals” also only occurred in spoken form, I’ve never read it anywhere (although I consume a lot of english media). Maybe it’s because I’m not a native speaker. In Germany we have a huge gap between daily/ business communication and the communication from authorities. The latter don’t write „Sehr geehrte Studenten“, but „Sehr geehrte Student:innen“, so I suspect something similar is happening here too. [1] https://www.quora.com/What-is-the-feminine-word-for-lad https://www.quora.com/What-is-the-feminine-word-for-lad
- foldr 4y ago
  That’s why a “lads’ mag” is a magazine aimed at all genders, right? Not sure if you are British, but ‘lads’ has a much stronger gender connotation than ‘guys’ etc. There’s also a female counterpart of the word (lass).
  - yamtaddle 4y ago
    American English speaker here. At least in the region where I live, "lads" is definitely gendered (plus uncommon and old-fashioned sounding and, applied to adults, a bit insulting), but "guys" isn't—which leads to friction when we interact with people from areas where, I gather, "guys" remains strongly gendered.
Y_Y 4y ago
Fwiw I think being British is a good sign that you do have something against British people. Also, at least in my social sphere, the gender-neutral "lads" has been popular for many years, alongside its male-only counterpart.
- matthewmacleod 4y ago
  I have in my entire British lifetime literally never heard “lads” refer to a mixed-gender group of people, in the way that “guys” often is. Not to say it doesn’t exist, but I have just never encountered it at all.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
Yizahi 4y ago
As far as I know mer, beastfolk and daedra don't exist on Earth, so only men remain. :)