4 ms·

On the one hand: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weather_balloon https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weather_balloon >Between 900 and 1,300 locations around the globe

On the one hand: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weather_balloon https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weather_balloon >Between 900 and 1,300 locations around the globe do routine releases, two or four times daily. On the other hand, weather balloons are not silver-gray and cylindrical. A Google image search shows them almost always white and spherical to teardrop shape and pretty much unmistakably a balloon.

userbinator 4y ago
The cylindrical description fits what could be hung from a balloon, however.
- janoc 4y ago
  And it just so happens that most meteorological payloads tend to be cylindrical/small boxes. So it is possible that trigger-happy NORAD is shooting down a lot of perfectly harmless stuff now.
  - ianburrell 4y ago
    Most weather balloons are small. The balloon is 3ft across at the ground. The payload is phone-sized or computer-sized. The payload wouldn't be visible to fighter. There are large scientific balloons. I couldn't find any standards of large balloons using transponders. They have communications and tracking so location is known. I wonder if NORAD is in contact with all the organizations about their balloons. I suspect there will be move to put ADS-B on larger balloons.
- anigbrowl 4y ago
  Or a small dirigible. You can buy those for a few thousand though I have no idea on their flight ceiling etc.
duxup 4y ago
Also the weather balloons are launched on consistent schedule / from consistent consistent locations and they often have a transmitter that allows them to send back data and even be found right? Not to say one of these can't be a weather balloon, but I would expect these also are known possibilities / somewhat detectable / aren't trying to be sneaky ...
- colechristensen 4y ago
  Yup. There are different requirements depending on payload size, but if you’re doing it regularly even if you don’t have to, you send appropriate information anyway notifying the right people locally what is flying where, expected flight paths, descriptions, exact times, etc. We did a balloon launch a long time ago, it had a radio sending back telemetry and we chased it across Colorado scrub land hundreds of miles.
- femto 4y ago
  A "well behaved" balloon should also carry a corner reflector, so it clearly stands out on radar. https://www.overlookhorizon.com/how-to-launch-weather-balloons/radar-reflectors/ https://www.overlookhorizon.com/how-to-launch-weather-balloo...
  - duxup 4y ago
    TIL, that's cool.
    - Kon-Peki 4y ago
      > Commercially available radar reflectors are frequently found as a sailboat supply item Wooden and fiberglass boats are fairly invisible to radar, even with metal masts and rigging. If you are ever planning to head out into the ocean and near where you might expect commercial shipping, these are a cheap safety item for making your boat visible.
      - consp 4y ago
        If you attempt to go near larger commercial shipping lanes you are required to have them at least were I live, they are not optional here. Also get the right size, some smaller ones are useless (so I've been told).
        eitland 4y ago
        I think the standard for marine radars on oil installations around here (norsok) was to be able to detect a large steel target at 25 nm. It is now 8 years since I worked with it last time and 1000m2 sounds very large to me but that is the only number that pops into my head. So yes, if you are in a small boat, use a radar reflector and also be alert.
amelius 4y ago
> Between 900 and 1,300 locations around the globe do routine releases, two or four times daily. Are the electronics in these balloons recovered eventually? Or is it just basically e-waste?
- mzs 4y ago
  There's a parachute attached and a phone number to call.
- jrockway 4y ago
  You can return them, but they aren't expecting many to be found and returned: https://www.weather.gov/upperair/radiosonde https://www.weather.gov/upperair/radiosonde
- dylan604 4y ago
  There are websites ([0] as an example) that will help you predict where your balloon will land. When I was involved in a launch, we had a cheap GPS tracker, a couple of GoPros, a battery pack, and an Arduino with a bunch of shields to take readings. I don't remember the specific site we used at the time, but it was pretty damn accurate. It was especially useful in that the original location we wanted to launch from predicted the landing spot would be near the runway of an Air Force base. We moved our launch location based entirely on where this site predicted it would land. Not only did our balloon have the parachute and radar reflector, we also put blinking lights on it. Since there was no transmitter on it, I had to call 2 different phone numbers to give status updates to report anticipated altitude progress. The first was the regional airport, and the second number was the larger airport 2 hours away that we were in the line of their approach pattern. The first airport would then notify the closer joint air base that they did not feel like we needed to call directly. At one point, we lost contact with our cheap GPS because it reached altitudes beyond what the company anticipated civilians to be doing. ATC informed us they were tracking it, and we were a little off in our altitude estimates within 5000'. All of that to say, no, it was not e-waste. we got it all back minus the bits of the balloon that exploded into pieces no longer attached. [0]https://www.stratoflights.com/en/tutorial/weather-balloon-tools/predicting-the-flight-path/ https://www.stratoflights.com/en/tutorial/weather-balloon-to...
- 4y ago
photochemsyn 4y ago
Interestingly drones are likely to replace weather balloons, they have several advantages like reusability as well as more control over data collection density on ascent. https://www.outlookindia.com/national/drones-may-replace-weather-balloons-soon-news-201051 https://www.outlookindia.com/national/drones-may-replace-wea...

userbinator 4y ago

The cylindrical description fits what could be hung from a balloon, however.

janoc 4y ago
And it just so happens that most meteorological payloads tend to be cylindrical/small boxes. So it is possible that trigger-happy NORAD is shooting down a lot of perfectly harmless stuff now.
- ianburrell 4y ago
  Most weather balloons are small. The balloon is 3ft across at the ground. The payload is phone-sized or computer-sized. The payload wouldn't be visible to fighter. There are large scientific balloons. I couldn't find any standards of large balloons using transponders. They have communications and tracking so location is known. I wonder if NORAD is in contact with all the organizations about their balloons. I suspect there will be move to put ADS-B on larger balloons.
anigbrowl 4y ago
Or a small dirigible. You can buy those for a few thousand though I have no idea on their flight ceiling etc.

duxup 4y ago

Also the weather balloons are launched on consistent schedule / from consistent consistent locations and they often have a transmitter that allows them to send back data and even be found right? Not to say one of these can't be a weather balloon, but I would expect these also are known possibilities / somewhat detectable / aren't trying to be sneaky ...

colechristensen 4y ago
Yup. There are different requirements depending on payload size, but if you’re doing it regularly even if you don’t have to, you send appropriate information anyway notifying the right people locally what is flying where, expected flight paths, descriptions, exact times, etc. We did a balloon launch a long time ago, it had a radio sending back telemetry and we chased it across Colorado scrub land hundreds of miles.
femto 4y ago
A "well behaved" balloon should also carry a corner reflector, so it clearly stands out on radar. https://www.overlookhorizon.com/how-to-launch-weather-balloons/radar-reflectors/ https://www.overlookhorizon.com/how-to-launch-weather-balloo...
- duxup 4y ago
  TIL, that's cool.
  - Kon-Peki 4y ago
    > Commercially available radar reflectors are frequently found as a sailboat supply item Wooden and fiberglass boats are fairly invisible to radar, even with metal masts and rigging. If you are ever planning to head out into the ocean and near where you might expect commercial shipping, these are a cheap safety item for making your boat visible.
    - consp 4y ago
      If you attempt to go near larger commercial shipping lanes you are required to have them at least were I live, they are not optional here. Also get the right size, some smaller ones are useless (so I've been told).
      - eitland 4y ago
        I think the standard for marine radars on oil installations around here (norsok) was to be able to detect a large steel target at 25 nm. It is now 8 years since I worked with it last time and 1000m2 sounds very large to me but that is the only number that pops into my head. So yes, if you are in a small boat, use a radar reflector and also be alert.

amelius 4y ago

> Between 900 and 1,300 locations around the globe do routine releases, two or four times daily. Are the electronics in these balloons recovered eventually? Or is it just basically e-waste?

mzs 4y ago
There's a parachute attached and a phone number to call.
jrockway 4y ago
You can return them, but they aren't expecting many to be found and returned: https://www.weather.gov/upperair/radiosonde https://www.weather.gov/upperair/radiosonde
dylan604 4y ago
There are websites ([0] as an example) that will help you predict where your balloon will land. When I was involved in a launch, we had a cheap GPS tracker, a couple of GoPros, a battery pack, and an Arduino with a bunch of shields to take readings. I don't remember the specific site we used at the time, but it was pretty damn accurate. It was especially useful in that the original location we wanted to launch from predicted the landing spot would be near the runway of an Air Force base. We moved our launch location based entirely on where this site predicted it would land. Not only did our balloon have the parachute and radar reflector, we also put blinking lights on it. Since there was no transmitter on it, I had to call 2 different phone numbers to give status updates to report anticipated altitude progress. The first was the regional airport, and the second number was the larger airport 2 hours away that we were in the line of their approach pattern. The first airport would then notify the closer joint air base that they did not feel like we needed to call directly. At one point, we lost contact with our cheap GPS because it reached altitudes beyond what the company anticipated civilians to be doing. ATC informed us they were tracking it, and we were a little off in our altitude estimates within 5000'. All of that to say, no, it was not e-waste. we got it all back minus the bits of the balloon that exploded into pieces no longer attached. [0]https://www.stratoflights.com/en/tutorial/weather-balloon-tools/predicting-the-flight-path/ https://www.stratoflights.com/en/tutorial/weather-balloon-to...
4y ago

photochemsyn 4y ago

Interestingly drones are likely to replace weather balloons, they have several advantages like reusability as well as more control over data collection density on ascent. https://www.outlookindia.com/national/drones-may-replace-weather-balloons-soon-news-201051 https://www.outlookindia.com/national/drones-may-replace-wea...