7 ms·

United Airlines 777 dives after departure

74 points by mji 4y ago

mwint 4y ago
Is there an uptick in aviation-related near-incidents lately? Difficult to tell if it’s real, coincidence, or just HN has developed an interest lately.
- zmk5 4y ago
  I've been wondering the same thing. Could it be the FAA really dropping the ball or the airlines are struggling to manage?
  - makestuff 4y ago
    My theory is pilots and maintenance crews are stretched way too thin after the pandemic layoffs and subsequent post covid boom. Therefore, more mistakes are happening.
    - kaitai 4y ago
      I have no data to confirm, but as a relative of a pilot, they are reporting taking a lot of "green slips" (uncovered flights) and experiencing some pressure to come in while fatigued, which they are resisting successfully as they have enough seniority and $ to not make it worth it.
      - ummonk 4y ago
        Wonder whether a corollary of that would be that more inexperienced pilots are succumbing to the pressure and coming in while fatigued.
      - pixl97 4y ago
        Juan Brown of the blancoliro channel on youtube had been talking about this near the beginning of the pandemic. The flying industry came in and asked for a large number of long time pilots to early retire at the start of the pandemic, and I believe a large number did. Then somewhat quickly demand bounced back causing a pilot shortage, leading to the industry putting out a call for new pilots.
  - toomuchtodo 4y ago
    https://simpleflying.com/southwest-airlines-lowers-minimum-hour-requirement-hours/ https://simpleflying.com/southwest-airlines-lowers-minimum-h... > Effective February 7th, aspiring Southwest pilots will need at least 500 flying hours on jets or turboprop aircraft, down from the 1,000 the airline currently requires. The Dallas-based budget airline communicated the change in an internal memo addressed to pilots and later explained that the rationale behind this decision is the willingness to increase opportunities for an airline pilot career to more skilled pilots. https://www.cbsnews.com/news/why-is-there-a-pilot-shortage-covid-retirements-training/ https://www.cbsnews.com/news/why-is-there-a-pilot-shortage-c... > And the military itself doesn't have enough pilots — a Department of Defense report from 2019 says the Air Force has seen shortfalls since 2006, and the service said it was short more than 1,500 pilots at the end of 2016 — "with the deficit expected to grow." By the end of the 2019 fiscal year, it had — to a deficit of 2,100 pilots, according to written testimony submitted to Congress in 2020. > The military has also struggled for years to meet its own goals for training new pilots. TLDR There is a pilot shortage. Lots of pilots retired or took buyouts during COVID when air traffic plummeted, and the pipeline is insufficient to meet the demand ramp. Additional citations: https://doav.virginia.gov/calendar-and-news/news/2020-june/southwest-offers-buyouts-to-pilots/ https://doav.virginia.gov/calendar-and-news/news/2020-june/s... https://www.cnbc.com/2022/05/15/us-pilot-shortage-forces-airlines-to-cut-flights-scramble-for-solutions.html https://www.cnbc.com/2022/05/15/us-pilot-shortage-forces-air...
    - polishdude20 4y ago
      I'm not surprised. Getting a pilots license is an expensive endeavor. Then it's lots of years flying in backwoods places for low pay.
      - deleted 4y ago
        [deleted]
- rafale 4y ago
  Something very similar happened to a Qatar Airways flight a few days ago, coming as low as 800 feet from the ocean. Scary stuff.
  - safeimp 4y ago
    First time seeing this one. Indeed, quite scary: > FlightRadar24 tracking data shows that, after taking off at 2am, the Qatar Boeing 787 started losing altitude only a minute later, when the plane was at 1,850ft. > The aircraft then suddenly dropped 1,000ft in 24 seconds. https://www.independent.co.uk/travel/news-and-advice/qatar-plummet-terrifying-descent-passenger-b2279625.html https://www.independent.co.uk/travel/news-and-advice/qatar-p...
    - dilap 4y ago
      That's wild, per the article the first officer was flying and simply got disoriented. Aircraft was recovered by the captain. That's the sort of thing you would expect to happen to a newly-minted private pilot in a cesna, not a commercial pilot in a fully-loaded 787!
      - turrican 4y ago
        My own airline had an incident recently where one of our senior captains became so disoriented taking off at night over water that he thought every flight instrument onboard had become unreliable (VERY unlikely). He dove toward the ground but fortunately managed to land before a disaster occurred. His First Officer stated that she knew the problem wasn’t the flight instruments, but didn’t correct the captain adequately. You’re right, these experienced pilots should know better, but incidents do happen.
        JumpinJack_Cash 4y ago
        What is inconceivable, even for layperson, is that when in doubt you should always gain altitude, not lose altitude.
- blamazon 4y ago
  I'm not a domain expert but a perusal of https://avherald.com/ https://avherald.com/ might indicate if there is an uptick or not.
  - doctor_eval 4y ago
    I think Simon is rate limited, and posts as much as he can from a much larger sample size. So probably not useful in terms of identifying frequency trends.
puffoflogic 4y ago
Admiral Cloudberg et al. have spoiled me; this info is boring without analysis.
- quickthrower2 4y ago
  That is true! I mentally calculated the feet per minute and compared it to some from crashes mentioned by him. About 1500 ft in 20s is 4500 ft/m so pretty steep but his reports I am sure have gone up to the 10000s. I am interested in: did they stall? I guess FR had speed data so you could guess. Did they land at the destination or do an emergency landing somewhere?
  - pletnes 4y ago
    There’s a chart of the speed - it’s around 250 knots so they’re going fast enough (source: personal MS flight simulator experience). The angle of attack is not shown, I think.
    - quickthrower2 4y ago
      I am super curious about this: big dive, probably not a stall (?) but either aircraft was airworth to carry on to destination OR at least the crew thought it was. So all the controls and systems should be working properly, engines working. I am guessing they saw something worth avoiding? Birds? UFO (literally ... not aliens)? Another plane?
  - foobarbecue 4y ago
    The linked article says they landed at destination.
password11 4y ago
> The incident was first reported by The Air Current, which analyzed granular data supplied by Flightradar24... UA1722 took off at 00:49.28.882 UTC on 19 December (14:49 local time 18 Dec). It climbed to a maximum altitude of 2,200 feet at 00:50:39.007 before descending to 775 feet at 00:50:57.500. The aircraft recovered from its dive and resumed its climb and safely arrived in San Francisco at 05:03 UTC. God, what a beautiful world we live in. Even in the event of a catastrophic aircraft failure, rest assured that millisecond-granularity data of your last moments will be recorded, as you plunge into the sea. Wouldn't want it any other way. Edit: Wow, I guess a lot of people disagree with this or think I'm being sarcastic. I'm not: I honestly think aviation telemetry is cool, and I left this comment expressing that if I was involved in a crash or near-crash (such as the one we're all discussing), I would think it's cool that the exact flight trajectory was recorded in such detail.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- closewith 4y ago
  > Even in the event of a catastrophic aircraft failure, rest assured that millisecond-granularity data of your last moments will be recorded, as you plunge into the sea. If you're close enough to shore that an ADS-B receiver can record your planes' transmissions.
  - Maxious 4y ago
    Post MH370, ADS-B data is relayed by Iridium satellites: > Aireon has deployed a space-based air traffic surveillance system for Automatic Dependent Surveillance-Broadcast (ADS-B) equipped aircraft throughout the entire globe. Aireon is harnessing next-generation aviation surveillance technologies that were formerly ground-based and, for the first time ever, is extending their reach globally to significantly improve efficiency, enhance safety, reduce emissions, and provide cost savings benefits to all stakeholders. Space-based ADS-B surveillance covers oceanic, polar, and remote regions
    - 4y ago
akmarinov 4y ago
[flagged]
everyone 4y ago
Boeing software problem?
- pbhjpbhj 4y ago
  Ha, it's a good question. I went to YouTube (as I follow a couple of incident analysis-giving pilots, "MentourPilot" and "74 Gear"). Anyway, there were interesting reports from a couple of Emirates 777 flights which appear to have the same issue [[1], [2], pilots zero-ing altitude on autopilot control {MCP}], but it doesn't look like the OP's issue; it's low-trajectory, not diving. There was also a stall on take off [3] which might correlate with the issue here?? Also, of course, there's compressor stalls which I gather are usually bird strikes? Certainly not enough information to make any judgement on cause. No doubt there will be reports out in due time. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F7Mbw0vVcS0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F7Mbw0vVcS0 [2] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=23fiDj8Uy6Q https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=23fiDj8Uy6Q [3] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SO3xmzoLzfI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SO3xmzoLzfI
atemerev 4y ago
I have experienced a dive like this (EasyJet Geneva-Copenhagen, 2013). It was really scary, to say the least. But apparently this is a relatively common situation, and aircrafts are sturdy enough to handle this without any problems. (Also, one of the reasons to fit your seat belt correctly).
- noncoml 4y ago
  I don't think the scary part was the dive by itself, but how close it was to hit the ground/sea. Don't think planes are sturdy enough to handle that :D
- HL33tibCe7 4y ago
  I don’t think it’s “common” and certainly it’s not normal.
- PKop 4y ago
  It's not necessarily about the plane structurally handling it, but that if it occurs shortly after takeoff, there isn't much altitude to pull out of a steep dive before crashing. The salient point of this post is how close the plane came (withing a few hundred feet) of impacting the ground.
michaelnoguera 4y ago
This article [1] notes that "The incident, ...came the same day 25 people were injured, six seriously, aboard a Hawaiian Airlines flight from Phoenix to Honolulu during severe turbulence in the vicinity of Maui." A local source [2] comments on the weather that day: "On the day this happened, we recall well that the Hawaiian Islands were in the midst of an exceptionally strong wind and rainstorm that was, even for Hawaii, highly unusual." Correlation, not causation, but a speculative explanation nonetheless? [1] https://theaircurrent.com/aviation-safety/united-maui-dive-ua1722-close-call/ https://theaircurrent.com/aviation-safety/united-maui-dive-u... archive: https://archive.is/RonQy https://archive.is/RonQy [2] https://beatofhawaii.com/bad-timing-weather-warnings-hawaiian-airlines-incident-missed-details/ https://beatofhawaii.com/bad-timing-weather-warnings-hawaiia... archive: https://archive.is/Fd0C4 https://archive.is/Fd0C4
0xB31B1B 4y ago
I have experienced a dive like this on a flight before. The airplane had some kind of pressure failure so the pilot intentionally dove from about 10k feet to 1k feet in 30 seconds or something crazy. Extremely scary, nothing communicated over the intercom to us until we were in a fully banked 180 degree turn heading back to the airport. Honesty surprised this didn't go viral on tiktok.
- quickthrower2 4y ago
  Shit that must have been scary! With the OP plane, it carried on going, so it couldn't have been pressure I reckon (not an expert).
- m2fkxy 4y ago
  Are you sure you are not recollecting the altitudes or the cause of the dive incorrectly? Depressurisation at ~10 000 feet does not really grant an emergency dive; in fact emergency dives for depressurisation usually end somewhere slightly below 10 000 ft, which is very much in the breathable zone. Furthermore, pressurised aircraft usually have an equivalent pressure (cabin altitude) of ~6-8 000 ft, which is not too far away. I do not now re: FAA, but EASA regulations permit flight in unpressurised aircraft between 10 to 13 000 ft without onboard oxygen for 30 minutes. Onboard oxygen is required beyond 30 minutes if > 10 000 ft and < 13 000 ft or immediately if > 13 000 ft.
- Someone 4y ago
  > Extremely scary, nothing communicated over the intercom to us until we were in a fully banked 180 degree turn heading back to the airport. I can understand that. The primary task of the pilots is to fly the airplane, and I would think they had their hands full doing that.
  - m2fkxy 4y ago
    in that order: "aviate, navigate, communicate"
HL33tibCe7 4y ago
They kept flying for 5 hours afterwards, which means the CVR will not have record of this incident (unless they pulled the circuit breaker soon afterwards, which is unlikely).
vr46 4y ago
From my pal, a 777 United Pilot... "I was actually flying Hawaii the day after…. I remember because it was the worst turbulence I’d every experienced on that route! Caused by a massive weather system that hung-out close to hawaii for a number of days while it slowly moved northeast toward the west coast of the CONUS… So repeating storms: small but ferocious! Heavy rain with gale force winds forcing closure of the airports several times during this period…" And: https://twitter.com/nwscwsuzoa/status/1605045345691373568?s=48&t=KuMCdwjHpheN_nzj2aqZcQ https://twitter.com/nwscwsuzoa/status/1605045345691373568?s=...
nunez 4y ago
> It climbed to a maximum altitude of 2,200 feet at 00:50:39.007 before descending to 775 feet at 00:50:57.500. ONE more second and everyone on that flight would have been done. Pilots need to get paid more.
Captain_X 4y ago
Ok people you want to know the truth. I know I am going to take flack for this. Truth. The airlines are hiring pilots that are not experienced. 1500 hours is the minimum. When I had 1500 hours. I didn’t know shit. Many of these young pilots don’t have basic flying skills. They will take any short cut to get to the airlines. Of there is a hard way and a easy way. They will take the easy way every time. Especially if there is an APP to go with it. If you ask a new hire. They are GODs gift to the airlines. Management is just filling seats. HR is in charge of hiring pilots. Pilots are now out of the hiring loop. HR is just filling quotas. The airlines are now scrapping the bottom of the barrel. More accidents will come and happen. Many of the newer pilots have no LOVE for aviation. The older pilots did. The newer pilots just money and good days off. 1500 hour pilots don’t know what they don’t know. I hate to say this. Not everyone can or are made to fly an airliner. Just like I can’t don’t Calculus or Trig. Signed Captain X (Retired) Third Generation Airline
- rootusrootus 4y ago
  That may be true, but these two pilots had 25000 hours between them.

74 points by mji 4y ago

Is there an uptick in aviation-related near-incidents lately? Difficult to tell if it’s real, coincidence, or just HN has developed an interest lately.

zmk5 4y ago
I've been wondering the same thing. Could it be the FAA really dropping the ball or the airlines are struggling to manage?
- makestuff 4y ago
  My theory is pilots and maintenance crews are stretched way too thin after the pandemic layoffs and subsequent post covid boom. Therefore, more mistakes are happening.
  - kaitai 4y ago
    I have no data to confirm, but as a relative of a pilot, they are reporting taking a lot of "green slips" (uncovered flights) and experiencing some pressure to come in while fatigued, which they are resisting successfully as they have enough seniority and $ to not make it worth it.
    - ummonk 4y ago
      Wonder whether a corollary of that would be that more inexperienced pilots are succumbing to the pressure and coming in while fatigued.
    - pixl97 4y ago
      Juan Brown of the blancoliro channel on youtube had been talking about this near the beginning of the pandemic. The flying industry came in and asked for a large number of long time pilots to early retire at the start of the pandemic, and I believe a large number did. Then somewhat quickly demand bounced back causing a pilot shortage, leading to the industry putting out a call for new pilots.
- toomuchtodo 4y ago
  https://simpleflying.com/southwest-airlines-lowers-minimum-hour-requirement-hours/ https://simpleflying.com/southwest-airlines-lowers-minimum-h... > Effective February 7th, aspiring Southwest pilots will need at least 500 flying hours on jets or turboprop aircraft, down from the 1,000 the airline currently requires. The Dallas-based budget airline communicated the change in an internal memo addressed to pilots and later explained that the rationale behind this decision is the willingness to increase opportunities for an airline pilot career to more skilled pilots. https://www.cbsnews.com/news/why-is-there-a-pilot-shortage-covid-retirements-training/ https://www.cbsnews.com/news/why-is-there-a-pilot-shortage-c... > And the military itself doesn't have enough pilots — a Department of Defense report from 2019 says the Air Force has seen shortfalls since 2006, and the service said it was short more than 1,500 pilots at the end of 2016 — "with the deficit expected to grow." By the end of the 2019 fiscal year, it had — to a deficit of 2,100 pilots, according to written testimony submitted to Congress in 2020. > The military has also struggled for years to meet its own goals for training new pilots. TLDR There is a pilot shortage. Lots of pilots retired or took buyouts during COVID when air traffic plummeted, and the pipeline is insufficient to meet the demand ramp. Additional citations: https://doav.virginia.gov/calendar-and-news/news/2020-june/southwest-offers-buyouts-to-pilots/ https://doav.virginia.gov/calendar-and-news/news/2020-june/s... https://www.cnbc.com/2022/05/15/us-pilot-shortage-forces-airlines-to-cut-flights-scramble-for-solutions.html https://www.cnbc.com/2022/05/15/us-pilot-shortage-forces-air...
  - polishdude20 4y ago
    I'm not surprised. Getting a pilots license is an expensive endeavor. Then it's lots of years flying in backwoods places for low pay.
    - deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
rafale 4y ago
Something very similar happened to a Qatar Airways flight a few days ago, coming as low as 800 feet from the ocean. Scary stuff.
- safeimp 4y ago
  First time seeing this one. Indeed, quite scary: > FlightRadar24 tracking data shows that, after taking off at 2am, the Qatar Boeing 787 started losing altitude only a minute later, when the plane was at 1,850ft. > The aircraft then suddenly dropped 1,000ft in 24 seconds. https://www.independent.co.uk/travel/news-and-advice/qatar-plummet-terrifying-descent-passenger-b2279625.html https://www.independent.co.uk/travel/news-and-advice/qatar-p...
  - dilap 4y ago
    That's wild, per the article the first officer was flying and simply got disoriented. Aircraft was recovered by the captain. That's the sort of thing you would expect to happen to a newly-minted private pilot in a cesna, not a commercial pilot in a fully-loaded 787!
    - turrican 4y ago
      My own airline had an incident recently where one of our senior captains became so disoriented taking off at night over water that he thought every flight instrument onboard had become unreliable (VERY unlikely). He dove toward the ground but fortunately managed to land before a disaster occurred. His First Officer stated that she knew the problem wasn’t the flight instruments, but didn’t correct the captain adequately. You’re right, these experienced pilots should know better, but incidents do happen.
      - JumpinJack_Cash 4y ago
        What is inconceivable, even for layperson, is that when in doubt you should always gain altitude, not lose altitude.
blamazon 4y ago
I'm not a domain expert but a perusal of https://avherald.com/ https://avherald.com/ might indicate if there is an uptick or not.
- doctor_eval 4y ago
  I think Simon is rate limited, and posts as much as he can from a much larger sample size. So probably not useful in terms of identifying frequency trends.

puffoflogic 4y ago

Admiral Cloudberg et al. have spoiled me; this info is boring without analysis.

quickthrower2 4y ago
That is true! I mentally calculated the feet per minute and compared it to some from crashes mentioned by him. About 1500 ft in 20s is 4500 ft/m so pretty steep but his reports I am sure have gone up to the 10000s. I am interested in: did they stall? I guess FR had speed data so you could guess. Did they land at the destination or do an emergency landing somewhere?
- pletnes 4y ago
  There’s a chart of the speed - it’s around 250 knots so they’re going fast enough (source: personal MS flight simulator experience). The angle of attack is not shown, I think.
  - quickthrower2 4y ago
    I am super curious about this: big dive, probably not a stall (?) but either aircraft was airworth to carry on to destination OR at least the crew thought it was. So all the controls and systems should be working properly, engines working. I am guessing they saw something worth avoiding? Birds? UFO (literally ... not aliens)? Another plane?
- foobarbecue 4y ago
  The linked article says they landed at destination.

password11 4y ago

> The incident was first reported by The Air Current, which analyzed granular data supplied by Flightradar24... UA1722 took off at 00:49.28.882 UTC on 19 December (14:49 local time 18 Dec). It climbed to a maximum altitude of 2,200 feet at 00:50:39.007 before descending to 775 feet at 00:50:57.500. The aircraft recovered from its dive and resumed its climb and safely arrived in San Francisco at 05:03 UTC. God, what a beautiful world we live in. Even in the event of a catastrophic aircraft failure, rest assured that millisecond-granularity data of your last moments will be recorded, as you plunge into the sea. Wouldn't want it any other way. Edit: Wow, I guess a lot of people disagree with this or think I'm being sarcastic. I'm not: I honestly think aviation telemetry is cool, and I left this comment expressing that if I was involved in a crash or near-crash (such as the one we're all discussing), I would think it's cool that the exact flight trajectory was recorded in such detail.

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
closewith 4y ago
> Even in the event of a catastrophic aircraft failure, rest assured that millisecond-granularity data of your last moments will be recorded, as you plunge into the sea. If you're close enough to shore that an ADS-B receiver can record your planes' transmissions.
- Maxious 4y ago
  Post MH370, ADS-B data is relayed by Iridium satellites: > Aireon has deployed a space-based air traffic surveillance system for Automatic Dependent Surveillance-Broadcast (ADS-B) equipped aircraft throughout the entire globe. Aireon is harnessing next-generation aviation surveillance technologies that were formerly ground-based and, for the first time ever, is extending their reach globally to significantly improve efficiency, enhance safety, reduce emissions, and provide cost savings benefits to all stakeholders. Space-based ADS-B surveillance covers oceanic, polar, and remote regions
  - 4y ago

akmarinov 4y ago

[flagged]

everyone 4y ago

Boeing software problem?

pbhjpbhj 4y ago
Ha, it's a good question. I went to YouTube (as I follow a couple of incident analysis-giving pilots, "MentourPilot" and "74 Gear"). Anyway, there were interesting reports from a couple of Emirates 777 flights which appear to have the same issue [[1], [2], pilots zero-ing altitude on autopilot control {MCP}], but it doesn't look like the OP's issue; it's low-trajectory, not diving. There was also a stall on take off [3] which might correlate with the issue here?? Also, of course, there's compressor stalls which I gather are usually bird strikes? Certainly not enough information to make any judgement on cause. No doubt there will be reports out in due time. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F7Mbw0vVcS0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F7Mbw0vVcS0 [2] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=23fiDj8Uy6Q https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=23fiDj8Uy6Q [3] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SO3xmzoLzfI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SO3xmzoLzfI

atemerev 4y ago

I have experienced a dive like this (EasyJet Geneva-Copenhagen, 2013). It was really scary, to say the least. But apparently this is a relatively common situation, and aircrafts are sturdy enough to handle this without any problems. (Also, one of the reasons to fit your seat belt correctly).

noncoml 4y ago
I don't think the scary part was the dive by itself, but how close it was to hit the ground/sea. Don't think planes are sturdy enough to handle that :D
HL33tibCe7 4y ago
I don’t think it’s “common” and certainly it’s not normal.
PKop 4y ago
It's not necessarily about the plane structurally handling it, but that if it occurs shortly after takeoff, there isn't much altitude to pull out of a steep dive before crashing. The salient point of this post is how close the plane came (withing a few hundred feet) of impacting the ground.

michaelnoguera 4y ago

This article [1] notes that "The incident, ...came the same day 25 people were injured, six seriously, aboard a Hawaiian Airlines flight from Phoenix to Honolulu during severe turbulence in the vicinity of Maui." A local source [2] comments on the weather that day: "On the day this happened, we recall well that the Hawaiian Islands were in the midst of an exceptionally strong wind and rainstorm that was, even for Hawaii, highly unusual." Correlation, not causation, but a speculative explanation nonetheless? [1] https://theaircurrent.com/aviation-safety/united-maui-dive-ua1722-close-call/ https://theaircurrent.com/aviation-safety/united-maui-dive-u... archive: https://archive.is/RonQy https://archive.is/RonQy [2] https://beatofhawaii.com/bad-timing-weather-warnings-hawaiian-airlines-incident-missed-details/ https://beatofhawaii.com/bad-timing-weather-warnings-hawaiia... archive: https://archive.is/Fd0C4 https://archive.is/Fd0C4

0xB31B1B 4y ago

I have experienced a dive like this on a flight before. The airplane had some kind of pressure failure so the pilot intentionally dove from about 10k feet to 1k feet in 30 seconds or something crazy. Extremely scary, nothing communicated over the intercom to us until we were in a fully banked 180 degree turn heading back to the airport. Honesty surprised this didn't go viral on tiktok.

quickthrower2 4y ago
Shit that must have been scary! With the OP plane, it carried on going, so it couldn't have been pressure I reckon (not an expert).
m2fkxy 4y ago
Are you sure you are not recollecting the altitudes or the cause of the dive incorrectly? Depressurisation at ~10 000 feet does not really grant an emergency dive; in fact emergency dives for depressurisation usually end somewhere slightly below 10 000 ft, which is very much in the breathable zone. Furthermore, pressurised aircraft usually have an equivalent pressure (cabin altitude) of ~6-8 000 ft, which is not too far away. I do not now re: FAA, but EASA regulations permit flight in unpressurised aircraft between 10 to 13 000 ft without onboard oxygen for 30 minutes. Onboard oxygen is required beyond 30 minutes if > 10 000 ft and < 13 000 ft or immediately if > 13 000 ft.
Someone 4y ago
> Extremely scary, nothing communicated over the intercom to us until we were in a fully banked 180 degree turn heading back to the airport. I can understand that. The primary task of the pilots is to fly the airplane, and I would think they had their hands full doing that.
- m2fkxy 4y ago
  in that order: "aviate, navigate, communicate"

HL33tibCe7 4y ago

They kept flying for 5 hours afterwards, which means the CVR will not have record of this incident (unless they pulled the circuit breaker soon afterwards, which is unlikely).

vr46 4y ago

From my pal, a 777 United Pilot... "I was actually flying Hawaii the day after…. I remember because it was the worst turbulence I’d every experienced on that route! Caused by a massive weather system that hung-out close to hawaii for a number of days while it slowly moved northeast toward the west coast of the CONUS… So repeating storms: small but ferocious! Heavy rain with gale force winds forcing closure of the airports several times during this period…" And: https://twitter.com/nwscwsuzoa/status/1605045345691373568?s=48&t=KuMCdwjHpheN_nzj2aqZcQ https://twitter.com/nwscwsuzoa/status/1605045345691373568?s=...

nunez 4y ago

> It climbed to a maximum altitude of 2,200 feet at 00:50:39.007 before descending to 775 feet at 00:50:57.500. ONE more second and everyone on that flight would have been done. Pilots need to get paid more.

Captain_X 4y ago

Ok people you want to know the truth. I know I am going to take flack for this. Truth. The airlines are hiring pilots that are not experienced. 1500 hours is the minimum. When I had 1500 hours. I didn’t know shit. Many of these young pilots don’t have basic flying skills. They will take any short cut to get to the airlines. Of there is a hard way and a easy way. They will take the easy way every time. Especially if there is an APP to go with it. If you ask a new hire. They are GODs gift to the airlines. Management is just filling seats. HR is in charge of hiring pilots. Pilots are now out of the hiring loop. HR is just filling quotas. The airlines are now scrapping the bottom of the barrel. More accidents will come and happen. Many of the newer pilots have no LOVE for aviation. The older pilots did. The newer pilots just money and good days off. 1500 hour pilots don’t know what they don’t know. I hate to say this. Not everyone can or are made to fly an airliner. Just like I can’t don’t Calculus or Trig. Signed Captain X (Retired) Third Generation Airline

rootusrootus 4y ago
That may be true, but these two pilots had 25000 hours between them.