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Russia controls the valves and germany controls the sanctions... anti-gas sanctions come from germany, russia closes the valve, no gas for germany. Then a cold

Russia controls the valves and germany controls the sanctions... anti-gas sanctions come from germany, russia closes the valve, no gas for germany. Then a cold winter comes, gas prices get very high (especially since the americans are inflating the price), german industry is fucked, people are paying a lot for heat (or being cold), and there's putin with "just lessen the sanctions, stop sending stuff to ukraine, and you get the cheap gas back". And the only one standing between the (relatively strong) industry and cold people are Scholz (...and Ursula) and a lot of "alternatives" who could take their place. Germany and russia being friendly? American biggest nightmare... as they've said before, literally, on camera, they'll stop the nordstreams, and they did. Now, even if people of germany get fed up and replace the current politicians, they won't get the cheap gas again. So, russia has less money, germany has less industry, usa gets stronger and can sell overpriced gas... so only one winner in this outcome, and it's not russia.

bandyaboot 4y ago
By September Putin would have been able to see the writing on the wall. Germany was not caving on sanctions and they were clearly expediting a post Russia energy future. Also, are you deliberately changing what Biden said about ending (specifically) Nordstream 2 to “the Nordstreams” to make it seem more believable that he was referring to physical destruction rather than stopping the non-operational Nordstream from progressing to operational status?
- ajsnigrutin 4y ago
  > expediting a post Russia energy future. Meaning what exactly? Very expensive gas, and in turn heat, and local factories closing down? Politicians can shit around all day, factories need cheap gas to work, people need jobs in those factories to be able to eat and heat their homes and heat is more expensive than ever.
  - avmich 4y ago
    People first need safety, and only after that working factories, and there's tremendous suspicion in Europe that here we have a replay of sad events some 80 years ago. Politicians can shit all day, and people can be gullible as worms, yet sometime they add two with two and figure out that spending more today and changing the energy sources for tomorrow may save them from having to spend all and above to maintain the defense after the previous guy separating them from problems will fail. Talking about jobs and factories one shouldn't forget about safety.
    - ajsnigrutin 4y ago
      For "the rest of the world", the "sad events" have been happening literally right now, or during the last 80 years... syria, libya, afghanistan, iraq, iraq again, yemen, yugoslavia, etc., but since it was "us" doing it, no sanctions were needed, and dead civilians didn't count. Syria is occupied right now by americans and you're shitting here about safety... Price Harry even went playing "war tourism" and went shooting afghani farmers and bragged about it... France has been fucking up africa for centuries too. I live in a shitty small slovenia, and even we sent soldiers to help the agressors in afghanistan and syria. But yes, overinflated politicians are bragging about europe being civilization and everywhere else being a jungle... so yeah, maybe it's time for yankee/European to go home and keep for them/ourselves. If we don't, we have no moral superiority to blame putin for anything while our own soldiers are occupying foreign sovereign countries this very moment.
      - ghostwriter 4y ago
        > I live in a shitty small slovenia, and even we sent soldiers to help the agressors in afghanistan and syria. Fun facts: * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/5th_Mechanized_Brigade_(Ukraine) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/5th_Mechanized_Brigade_(Ukrain... * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/6th_Mechanized_Brigade_(Ukraine) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/6th_Mechanized_Brigade_(Ukrain...
      - avmich 4y ago
        I don't agree that some of your statements are facts. However, pretty much all countries have unjust conflicts in their history, where they were on the wrong side. That doesn't mean it should continue. I'll refrain from commenting on Syria topic - I feel it justifies better facts on the table and longer discussion than this place allows. You may think what you want. Maybe it's time for many countries to keep to themselves - that would roughly correspond to Westfall sovereignty, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Westphalian_sovereignty https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Westphalian_sovereignty . Or maybe we should be of the opinion that certain things, like human rights, aren't the matter of countries, and have some ways of supporting them too. > If we don't, we have no moral superiority to blame putin for anything while our own soldiers are occupying foreign sovereign countries this very moment. Why?
nradov 4y ago
Norway is also a big winner, regardless of who destroyed the pipelines.
Swenrekcah 4y ago
This analysis is not complete. By the time the pipeline was bombed, it was clear that the EU wasn’t going to cave into Russian demands to stop supporting Ukraine. So the pipeline sitting there usable but with no gas flowing would both create legal problems for Russia and also be a symbol of European unity. Regarding the US being able to sell LNG, the capabilities to transport and offload it in the quantities needed don’t exist yet. I don’t know who blew it up, the most logical would be the Ukrainians but they probably couldn’t have. The next logical are Russia and the certainly have the capability. The USA may be the third logical option and they do have the capability but I’m not so sure they could have done it in this part of the world undetected by Russia.
- ajsnigrutin 4y ago
  > So the pipeline sitting there usable but with no gas flowing would both create legal problems for Russia and also be a symbol of European unity. What legal problems? Is russia going to get sued? ...while EU is literally stealing russian assets and sending weapons to kill russians? The situation on tv is one thing, but the people are fed up with ever more expensive lives while sending billions to ukraine, and enough angry people means huge changes in politics. The last time germany was so fucked by outside forces as it is now, they elected that austrian painter guy, who actually made the country strong again... sadly it ended up in a war and another fuckup of germany.
  - Swenrekcah 4y ago
    You are obviously quite sympathetic to Putin’s viewpoint here and I’m not going to try and persuade you otherwise. I’m merely pointing out that there are some reasons for Russia to have bombed the pipeline. The Hitler reference is just weird.
- redeeman 4y ago
  > By the time the pipeline was bombed, it was clear that the EU wasn’t going to cave into Russian demands to stop supporting Ukraine. it is clear that the ruling class didnt want to, but there was increasing pressure from the people of germany and also other parts of EU to approve nord stream 2. And the US simply couldnt accept that the possibility that they would cave to pressure from the people(the horror). Its probably entirely possible that the germany/EU regime asked the US to do it, just to remove the possibility of them having to be accountable to their own citizens.
bandyaboot 4y ago
I’d argue Putin is a winner. The Nordstream pipelines were essentially switched off money printing machines that could be switched on at any point if powerful Russians decided it was time to remove Putin. No longer the case now.

bandyaboot 4y ago

By September Putin would have been able to see the writing on the wall. Germany was not caving on sanctions and they were clearly expediting a post Russia energy future. Also, are you deliberately changing what Biden said about ending (specifically) Nordstream 2 to “the Nordstreams” to make it seem more believable that he was referring to physical destruction rather than stopping the non-operational Nordstream from progressing to operational status?

ajsnigrutin 4y ago
> expediting a post Russia energy future. Meaning what exactly? Very expensive gas, and in turn heat, and local factories closing down? Politicians can shit around all day, factories need cheap gas to work, people need jobs in those factories to be able to eat and heat their homes and heat is more expensive than ever.
- avmich 4y ago
  People first need safety, and only after that working factories, and there's tremendous suspicion in Europe that here we have a replay of sad events some 80 years ago. Politicians can shit all day, and people can be gullible as worms, yet sometime they add two with two and figure out that spending more today and changing the energy sources for tomorrow may save them from having to spend all and above to maintain the defense after the previous guy separating them from problems will fail. Talking about jobs and factories one shouldn't forget about safety.
  - ajsnigrutin 4y ago
    For "the rest of the world", the "sad events" have been happening literally right now, or during the last 80 years... syria, libya, afghanistan, iraq, iraq again, yemen, yugoslavia, etc., but since it was "us" doing it, no sanctions were needed, and dead civilians didn't count. Syria is occupied right now by americans and you're shitting here about safety... Price Harry even went playing "war tourism" and went shooting afghani farmers and bragged about it... France has been fucking up africa for centuries too. I live in a shitty small slovenia, and even we sent soldiers to help the agressors in afghanistan and syria. But yes, overinflated politicians are bragging about europe being civilization and everywhere else being a jungle... so yeah, maybe it's time for yankee/European to go home and keep for them/ourselves. If we don't, we have no moral superiority to blame putin for anything while our own soldiers are occupying foreign sovereign countries this very moment.
    - ghostwriter 4y ago
      > I live in a shitty small slovenia, and even we sent soldiers to help the agressors in afghanistan and syria. Fun facts: * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/5th_Mechanized_Brigade_(Ukraine) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/5th_Mechanized_Brigade_(Ukrain... * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/6th_Mechanized_Brigade_(Ukraine) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/6th_Mechanized_Brigade_(Ukrain...
    - avmich 4y ago
      I don't agree that some of your statements are facts. However, pretty much all countries have unjust conflicts in their history, where they were on the wrong side. That doesn't mean it should continue. I'll refrain from commenting on Syria topic - I feel it justifies better facts on the table and longer discussion than this place allows. You may think what you want. Maybe it's time for many countries to keep to themselves - that would roughly correspond to Westfall sovereignty, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Westphalian_sovereignty https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Westphalian_sovereignty . Or maybe we should be of the opinion that certain things, like human rights, aren't the matter of countries, and have some ways of supporting them too. > If we don't, we have no moral superiority to blame putin for anything while our own soldiers are occupying foreign sovereign countries this very moment. Why?

nradov 4y ago

Norway is also a big winner, regardless of who destroyed the pipelines.

Swenrekcah 4y ago

This analysis is not complete. By the time the pipeline was bombed, it was clear that the EU wasn’t going to cave into Russian demands to stop supporting Ukraine. So the pipeline sitting there usable but with no gas flowing would both create legal problems for Russia and also be a symbol of European unity. Regarding the US being able to sell LNG, the capabilities to transport and offload it in the quantities needed don’t exist yet. I don’t know who blew it up, the most logical would be the Ukrainians but they probably couldn’t have. The next logical are Russia and the certainly have the capability. The USA may be the third logical option and they do have the capability but I’m not so sure they could have done it in this part of the world undetected by Russia.

ajsnigrutin 4y ago
> So the pipeline sitting there usable but with no gas flowing would both create legal problems for Russia and also be a symbol of European unity. What legal problems? Is russia going to get sued? ...while EU is literally stealing russian assets and sending weapons to kill russians? The situation on tv is one thing, but the people are fed up with ever more expensive lives while sending billions to ukraine, and enough angry people means huge changes in politics. The last time germany was so fucked by outside forces as it is now, they elected that austrian painter guy, who actually made the country strong again... sadly it ended up in a war and another fuckup of germany.
- Swenrekcah 4y ago
  You are obviously quite sympathetic to Putin’s viewpoint here and I’m not going to try and persuade you otherwise. I’m merely pointing out that there are some reasons for Russia to have bombed the pipeline. The Hitler reference is just weird.
redeeman 4y ago
> By the time the pipeline was bombed, it was clear that the EU wasn’t going to cave into Russian demands to stop supporting Ukraine. it is clear that the ruling class didnt want to, but there was increasing pressure from the people of germany and also other parts of EU to approve nord stream 2. And the US simply couldnt accept that the possibility that they would cave to pressure from the people(the horror). Its probably entirely possible that the germany/EU regime asked the US to do it, just to remove the possibility of them having to be accountable to their own citizens.

bandyaboot 4y ago

I’d argue Putin is a winner. The Nordstream pipelines were essentially switched off money printing machines that could be switched on at any point if powerful Russians decided it was time to remove Putin. No longer the case now.