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I kinda get it and kinda hate it. I am a pretty responsible dude but nothing has made me as invested in my community, surroundings, etc as owning a home. I alw

I kinda get it and kinda hate it. I am a pretty responsible dude but nothing has made me as invested in my community, surroundings, etc as owning a home. I always loved the US but once we bought the house I really understood it on the next level. Apartments are great for single people and retirees. Families should have a house with a back yard and a drive way. It's our dream.

raldi 4y ago
I’ve never met a person who grew up in a city and told me they wished they’d been raised in the suburbs instead. Who needs a backyard when you have dozens of wonderful parks within a short travel distance? Who needs a driveway at all?
tomtheelder 4y ago
With all due respect that’s _your_ dream. I hated growing up in a house with a back yard and a driveway. I’m not sure I would have wanted to grow up in downtown Manhattan, but an apartment in a small city would have been infinitely better.
- BuyMyBitcoins 4y ago
  >”I hated growing up in a house with a back yard and a driveway.” May I ask why?
  - tomtheelder 4y ago
    Mostly because it was boring and isolating. To be clear I didn’t dislike the yard! I disliked what living in an area of traditional SFHs (aka the suburbs) entailed. My cousins growing up lived near the core of a small city and visiting them was like a breath of fresh air. So many fun activities nearby, things you could walk to, way more people to meet. Where I grew up I was basically stuck on just my street unless I could convince my parents to drive me somewhere, and even when I had that there was nowhere interesting to go. I guess when I was like <10 years old it didn’t really matter, but the older I got the worse it was. I’d never move back to a suburb personally, and I certainly wouldn’t raise kids there.
    - dgunay 4y ago
      I had exactly this experience growing up too. My friends were all _at least_ a 2 mile walk from me, on 8 lane 60mph stroads with nothing but gated communities and strip malls along the way. Biking was not great either because of how hilly it could get. Once I got a car life got much better, but it didn't have to be that way.
  - anon291 4y ago
    For me, it's the fact that new single family developments are unwalkable and a major contributor to childhood depression. Children are meant to be out and about. This can happen in the rural countryside where kids can play in woods and the like. It can happen in the city where kids can hang out around town and see all kinds of people. It cannot happen in a suburb because the cars are too fast, there are too many of them, and there's no safe place for kids to walk by themselves. And even if they could in most bedroom towns, there's nothing to do. For me, I'd live in the country or the city never the suburbs. I had to beg my parents to take me anywhere. My kids just leave the house and find friends or say hi to neighbors. No effort on our part and they get to be free.
    - TheCoelacanth 4y ago
      Car-centric suburbs are the worst of both worlds. Not enough space for real outdoor activities. Nothing nearby worth going to.
- dinkumthinkum 4y ago
  Well, you are an extreme outlier. There are all kinds of people on this world but this very uncommon. Most people in apartment complexes are trying to get into their own home or hole that they can.
  - tomtheelder 4y ago
    I’m not convinced that’s true at all.
  - anon291 4y ago
    That's not true. Most renters want to own because owning is cheaper. Renters live in houses too... It's not like home renters are less likely to want to own. I know a family who rents a lovely house in a super nice neighborhood... They still want to own.
  - HWR_14 4y ago
    Many renters want to own, but they may want to own a townhome or a condo and not a single-family home with a driveway and a yard.
  - jandrewrogers 4y ago
    Extreme outlier? I know many people that can afford to live anywhere they want that choose to live in an apartment for its many advantages. It sounds like you are projecting your own biases. The notion that everyone desperately wants to live in a suburban house is manifestly false. There is a reason the rents on nice urban apartments in good areas would easily cover the mortgage in an average suburb, yet are still in high demand.
- lynndotpy 4y ago
  I second this sentiment. I grew up in rural and suburban America, and I'm jealous of those who grew up with more people around them.
- iinnPP 4y ago
  You hated growing up in a house with a backyard? What a problem to have. Wow.
eapressoandcats 4y ago
Worth noting is that single family zoning in many places also prevents people from having houses as well. Small starter homes are basically illegal in many suburbs due to high minimum lot sizes and low FAR rating. I think that is frankly an issue that is underrated by most urbanists.
- xyzelement 4y ago
  Maybe. But I think there are plenty of levers on that as well. Example: 2 years ago we bought a house on Long Island, near NYC. If we were willing to live 30 minutes further east, the same house would cost half. If we were willing to live in a few nice part of Cleveland, the same house would go down by half again. And if we wanted to live right outside of Cleveland, it'd drop by half again. Point being that things can get VERY affordable if you are willing to be creative and flexible with location. Which is easier now than ever with WFH. I also think boomers will start moving out soon and there'll be plenty inventory. Housing will be fine.
  - ianburrell 4y ago
    Would you have bought condo for half the price in nicer location? Would you have bought a smaller house or condo for less money? The problem now is that we don’t give people the choice when only single family homes are allowed. Some people like apartments. Some people prefer location and would take whatever gets them there. Some people just need the cheapest housing.
dinkumthinkum 4y ago
You might find many retirees like own their own home as well.
anon291 4y ago
You can own an apartment or own a smaller home ...
ryukafalz 4y ago
You can still have your single-family home, that's fine. This is about giving people the option for apartments, condos, etc - because those are currently banned in the vast majority of the US. It's not taking away the option of a single-family home. And with respect, as another commenter stated, that's your dream. There's a lot of options in between that just don't exist right now in most of the country.
mikebenfield 4y ago
You can have your single family home. I don't want one, and you shouldn't be able to dictate what kind of housing I live in.
bradleyjg 4y ago
Apartments are great for single people and retirees. Families should have a house with a back yard and a drive way. It's our dream. There are a lot of households without children and not that many apartments—-especially higher end ones in nice places. Allow some more of those to built so single people, retirees, and so-inclined others can move into them and that will free up houses with yards and white picket fences for families that want them. My empty nester parents have no apartment options if they want to stay in the same community where they’ve lived for decades.
throwaway6734 4y ago
Its your dream. Many people's dream is to own any house at all
II2II 4y ago
Plenty of people buy without becoming invested in the community and plenty of people rent who are invested in the community. I suspect it depends upon both the personality of the person and where they are in life. Even then, suggesting that someone doesn't want to be invested in their community because their views on what community means differs from yours is liable to be biased. For example, I often hear people criticizing students as being transient, yet they are frequently interested in contributing to the development of the communities in wbich they live. Yet you cannot expect their vision to be the same as someone who is midcareer and has children.
narutosasuke 4y ago
Communities take all different shapes, renters care about their community too. Personally growing up in a SFH was isolating and took away any sort of autonomy I had. Want to go to a park? Well that's a 10 minute drive. How about friends? Better hope I like my 3 neighbors (I didn't). Another 15 minute drive My family and I live in a large apartment. My son has friends he can walk to see, a park he can walk to and we can relax in, and even a store where he can get treats with his allowance. I'm not his driver and he's more locked into the community than I ever was. All I knew in my community was who had a feud with who over a tree crossing into their yard.
renewiltord 4y ago
Interesting. From when I was 10 to adulthood, I grew up in a super-block style situation in a massive metropolis. Large apartment blocks with a big courtyard area in the middle (a few soccer fields in size). The things I miss from my childhood which it is apparent I won't be able to do here in the Bay Area in America are: - unsupervised play - mixed age un-chaperoned interaction - have my children be raised by a village I find most people's American suburban life is sort of an isolated existence. People have 3 or 4 people they know on the block. For us, there were numerous homes we could stop by as kids, and we were susceptible to policing from all adults in the vicinity. It was a real community experience - not isolated encounters here and there.
ahepp 4y ago
One thing I don't fully understand is why single family zoning is necessary to make this a reality? Won't density naturally fall off as you move out of the core? Since area increases with the square of the radius, it seems to me that a larger core means more core will be accessible to more suburbanites commuting in from surrounding areas. Couple that with an architecture that can better support things like commuter rail, and it just feels like a situation where everyone wins.

raldi 4y ago

I’ve never met a person who grew up in a city and told me they wished they’d been raised in the suburbs instead. Who needs a backyard when you have dozens of wonderful parks within a short travel distance? Who needs a driveway at all?

tomtheelder 4y ago

With all due respect that’s _your_ dream. I hated growing up in a house with a back yard and a driveway. I’m not sure I would have wanted to grow up in downtown Manhattan, but an apartment in a small city would have been infinitely better.

BuyMyBitcoins 4y ago
>”I hated growing up in a house with a back yard and a driveway.” May I ask why?
- tomtheelder 4y ago
  Mostly because it was boring and isolating. To be clear I didn’t dislike the yard! I disliked what living in an area of traditional SFHs (aka the suburbs) entailed. My cousins growing up lived near the core of a small city and visiting them was like a breath of fresh air. So many fun activities nearby, things you could walk to, way more people to meet. Where I grew up I was basically stuck on just my street unless I could convince my parents to drive me somewhere, and even when I had that there was nowhere interesting to go. I guess when I was like <10 years old it didn’t really matter, but the older I got the worse it was. I’d never move back to a suburb personally, and I certainly wouldn’t raise kids there.
  - dgunay 4y ago
    I had exactly this experience growing up too. My friends were all _at least_ a 2 mile walk from me, on 8 lane 60mph stroads with nothing but gated communities and strip malls along the way. Biking was not great either because of how hilly it could get. Once I got a car life got much better, but it didn't have to be that way.
- anon291 4y ago
  For me, it's the fact that new single family developments are unwalkable and a major contributor to childhood depression. Children are meant to be out and about. This can happen in the rural countryside where kids can play in woods and the like. It can happen in the city where kids can hang out around town and see all kinds of people. It cannot happen in a suburb because the cars are too fast, there are too many of them, and there's no safe place for kids to walk by themselves. And even if they could in most bedroom towns, there's nothing to do. For me, I'd live in the country or the city never the suburbs. I had to beg my parents to take me anywhere. My kids just leave the house and find friends or say hi to neighbors. No effort on our part and they get to be free.
  - TheCoelacanth 4y ago
    Car-centric suburbs are the worst of both worlds. Not enough space for real outdoor activities. Nothing nearby worth going to.
dinkumthinkum 4y ago
Well, you are an extreme outlier. There are all kinds of people on this world but this very uncommon. Most people in apartment complexes are trying to get into their own home or hole that they can.
- tomtheelder 4y ago
  I’m not convinced that’s true at all.
- anon291 4y ago
  That's not true. Most renters want to own because owning is cheaper. Renters live in houses too... It's not like home renters are less likely to want to own. I know a family who rents a lovely house in a super nice neighborhood... They still want to own.
- HWR_14 4y ago
  Many renters want to own, but they may want to own a townhome or a condo and not a single-family home with a driveway and a yard.
- jandrewrogers 4y ago
  Extreme outlier? I know many people that can afford to live anywhere they want that choose to live in an apartment for its many advantages. It sounds like you are projecting your own biases. The notion that everyone desperately wants to live in a suburban house is manifestly false. There is a reason the rents on nice urban apartments in good areas would easily cover the mortgage in an average suburb, yet are still in high demand.
lynndotpy 4y ago
I second this sentiment. I grew up in rural and suburban America, and I'm jealous of those who grew up with more people around them.
iinnPP 4y ago
You hated growing up in a house with a backyard? What a problem to have. Wow.

eapressoandcats 4y ago

Worth noting is that single family zoning in many places also prevents people from having houses as well. Small starter homes are basically illegal in many suburbs due to high minimum lot sizes and low FAR rating. I think that is frankly an issue that is underrated by most urbanists.

xyzelement 4y ago
Maybe. But I think there are plenty of levers on that as well. Example: 2 years ago we bought a house on Long Island, near NYC. If we were willing to live 30 minutes further east, the same house would cost half. If we were willing to live in a few nice part of Cleveland, the same house would go down by half again. And if we wanted to live right outside of Cleveland, it'd drop by half again. Point being that things can get VERY affordable if you are willing to be creative and flexible with location. Which is easier now than ever with WFH. I also think boomers will start moving out soon and there'll be plenty inventory. Housing will be fine.
- ianburrell 4y ago
  Would you have bought condo for half the price in nicer location? Would you have bought a smaller house or condo for less money? The problem now is that we don’t give people the choice when only single family homes are allowed. Some people like apartments. Some people prefer location and would take whatever gets them there. Some people just need the cheapest housing.

dinkumthinkum 4y ago

You might find many retirees like own their own home as well.

anon291 4y ago

You can own an apartment or own a smaller home ...

ryukafalz 4y ago

You can still have your single-family home, that's fine. This is about giving people the option for apartments, condos, etc - because those are currently banned in the vast majority of the US. It's not taking away the option of a single-family home. And with respect, as another commenter stated, that's your dream. There's a lot of options in between that just don't exist right now in most of the country.

mikebenfield 4y ago

You can have your single family home. I don't want one, and you shouldn't be able to dictate what kind of housing I live in.

bradleyjg 4y ago

Apartments are great for single people and retirees. Families should have a house with a back yard and a drive way. It's our dream. There are a lot of households without children and not that many apartments—-especially higher end ones in nice places. Allow some more of those to built so single people, retirees, and so-inclined others can move into them and that will free up houses with yards and white picket fences for families that want them. My empty nester parents have no apartment options if they want to stay in the same community where they’ve lived for decades.

throwaway6734 4y ago

Its your dream. Many people's dream is to own any house at all

II2II 4y ago

Plenty of people buy without becoming invested in the community and plenty of people rent who are invested in the community. I suspect it depends upon both the personality of the person and where they are in life. Even then, suggesting that someone doesn't want to be invested in their community because their views on what community means differs from yours is liable to be biased. For example, I often hear people criticizing students as being transient, yet they are frequently interested in contributing to the development of the communities in wbich they live. Yet you cannot expect their vision to be the same as someone who is midcareer and has children.

narutosasuke 4y ago

Communities take all different shapes, renters care about their community too. Personally growing up in a SFH was isolating and took away any sort of autonomy I had. Want to go to a park? Well that's a 10 minute drive. How about friends? Better hope I like my 3 neighbors (I didn't). Another 15 minute drive My family and I live in a large apartment. My son has friends he can walk to see, a park he can walk to and we can relax in, and even a store where he can get treats with his allowance. I'm not his driver and he's more locked into the community than I ever was. All I knew in my community was who had a feud with who over a tree crossing into their yard.

renewiltord 4y ago

Interesting. From when I was 10 to adulthood, I grew up in a super-block style situation in a massive metropolis. Large apartment blocks with a big courtyard area in the middle (a few soccer fields in size). The things I miss from my childhood which it is apparent I won't be able to do here in the Bay Area in America are: - unsupervised play - mixed age un-chaperoned interaction - have my children be raised by a village I find most people's American suburban life is sort of an isolated existence. People have 3 or 4 people they know on the block. For us, there were numerous homes we could stop by as kids, and we were susceptible to policing from all adults in the vicinity. It was a real community experience - not isolated encounters here and there.

ahepp 4y ago

One thing I don't fully understand is why single family zoning is necessary to make this a reality? Won't density naturally fall off as you move out of the core? Since area increases with the square of the radius, it seems to me that a larger core means more core will be accessible to more suburbanites commuting in from surrounding areas. Couple that with an architecture that can better support things like commuter rail, and it just feels like a situation where everyone wins.