8 ms·

Isn’t part of the benefit of getting into these universities the fact that you get to interact with people from a wealthier economic class? You have the opportu

Isn’t part of the benefit of getting into these universities the fact that you get to interact with people from a wealthier economic class? You have the opportunity to meet people who can invest in your ventures or who can introduce you to people who can.

peacefulhat 4y ago
not if they took your seat
- dismantlethesun 4y ago
  If you dont give the wealthy an unfair seat then they will not be in that university. Instead they will be forced to go to another private school which will receive their endowments, and soon grow to the point they can compete with elite schools. Harvard, et all will still be good schools but not the "best" schools that people die to get into.
  - ameister14 4y ago
    While the universities can completely do that, they can't get an antitrust exception while they do. That's the issue here, I think. The universities are colluding with one another as regards pricing and financial aid. This was allowed under an exception to antitrust law so long as financial aid played no role in admissions. The group is alleging that financial aid, or the lack of it, plays a role in admitting rich students. If that's the case, it's possible (but not anywhere close to certain) that the universities don't qualify for the antitrust exception.
    - true_religion 4y ago
      I didn’t think universities were excepted from anti trust laws. Do you have any idea why this was permitted?
      - ameister14 4y ago
        As I understand it they aren't entirely, but Section 568 of the Higher Education Act lets them communicate and act together for the purposes of determining some guidelines around financial aid. https://www.naicu.edu/docLib/20150803_Antitrust_legislation.pdf https://www.naicu.edu/docLib/20150803_Antitrust_legislation....
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
- funstuff007 4y ago
  or the X who took your seat: - POC - child of alum - athlete - famous person or child of famous person The list goes on.
antegamisou 4y ago
> You have the opportunity to meet people who can invest in your ventures. and who are also completely lacking empathy for the financially challenged at best, disregard and look down upon the less privileged at worst. Both may lead to social isolation of persons with different socioeconomic background attending said schools.
- Aloha 4y ago
  You can be middle class or upper middle class and have that viewpoint if you've had insufficient exposure to people from different socioeconomic backgrounds.
  - busterarm 4y ago
    Try gambling (say, poker) with the ultra rich. They don't really give a shit win or lose because they like the entertainment, but they _absolutely hate_ to lose to someone who needs the money. For one, that money is never coming back to the table for them to win back later, and two, that person was playing for completely different stakes as the rest of the table and actually "got over" on them. If you even want to get into such games, having the money isn't enough. You need the aura that it's small stakes to you. Multiple cash game hustlers have written about this phenomenon.
    - moonchrome 4y ago
      Generalizing gambling anecdotes sounds like a huge leap.
      - busterarm 4y ago
        Gambling shows you a person's true nature.
        fsckboy 4y ago
        do you mean how each person gambles distinguishes each person's nature, or the fact of gambling puts you in the nature of being a gambler and says other things about your personality?
yunohn 4y ago
The main part is the status signaling. And using the value of the university degree for future wealth building. Not hating, just observing.
avgcorrection 4y ago
More to the point: part of the benefit is to get into the wealthier classes yourself.
rayiner 4y ago
Yes, elite institutions are designed to help perpetuate class hierarchies. Why is this a "benefit" that society should tolerate?
- QuarterReptile 4y ago
  Seems like a pretty crappy design if the goal is to 'perpetuate class hierarchies', considering that they replace nepotism as a system for filling important roles in society. Hard to be more insular than that.
dumbotron 4y ago
It's the other way around. People from poorer backgrounds are brought in for the education of the rich students. It's like a zoo. Or it's so the rich students can take advantage of your talents once you leave.
mrdrozdov 4y ago
No.
Retric 4y ago
Not really, wealthy students alone don’t make or break elite schools. Yale for example doesn’t have nearly the reputation of Harvard even though 5 presidents went to Yale etc. In the end it’s the non wealthy students that make or break a schools reputation which is why schools give out scholarships etc. It’s a pure transaction your future achievements aid us and our reputation and resources aid you. Schools also specialize so Harvard doesn’t have nearly the reputation in say animation as CalArts etc.
nytesky 4y ago
My experience as a very poor student at elite university is that the classes don’t mix much, though there maybe exceptions for a standout athlete on a team sport. Part of it is logistics: wealthy had money for weekend ski trips, cars, didn’t have to work student jobs so had more free time. Maybe it’s changed? I was there over a decade ago.

peacefulhat 4y ago

not if they took your seat

dismantlethesun 4y ago
If you dont give the wealthy an unfair seat then they will not be in that university. Instead they will be forced to go to another private school which will receive their endowments, and soon grow to the point they can compete with elite schools. Harvard, et all will still be good schools but not the "best" schools that people die to get into.
- ameister14 4y ago
  While the universities can completely do that, they can't get an antitrust exception while they do. That's the issue here, I think. The universities are colluding with one another as regards pricing and financial aid. This was allowed under an exception to antitrust law so long as financial aid played no role in admissions. The group is alleging that financial aid, or the lack of it, plays a role in admitting rich students. If that's the case, it's possible (but not anywhere close to certain) that the universities don't qualify for the antitrust exception.
  - true_religion 4y ago
    I didn’t think universities were excepted from anti trust laws. Do you have any idea why this was permitted?
    - ameister14 4y ago
      As I understand it they aren't entirely, but Section 568 of the Higher Education Act lets them communicate and act together for the purposes of determining some guidelines around financial aid. https://www.naicu.edu/docLib/20150803_Antitrust_legislation.pdf https://www.naicu.edu/docLib/20150803_Antitrust_legislation....
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
funstuff007 4y ago
or the X who took your seat: - POC - child of alum - athlete - famous person or child of famous person The list goes on.

antegamisou 4y ago

> You have the opportunity to meet people who can invest in your ventures. and who are also completely lacking empathy for the financially challenged at best, disregard and look down upon the less privileged at worst. Both may lead to social isolation of persons with different socioeconomic background attending said schools.

Aloha 4y ago
You can be middle class or upper middle class and have that viewpoint if you've had insufficient exposure to people from different socioeconomic backgrounds.
- busterarm 4y ago
  Try gambling (say, poker) with the ultra rich. They don't really give a shit win or lose because they like the entertainment, but they _absolutely hate_ to lose to someone who needs the money. For one, that money is never coming back to the table for them to win back later, and two, that person was playing for completely different stakes as the rest of the table and actually "got over" on them. If you even want to get into such games, having the money isn't enough. You need the aura that it's small stakes to you. Multiple cash game hustlers have written about this phenomenon.
  - moonchrome 4y ago
    Generalizing gambling anecdotes sounds like a huge leap.
    - busterarm 4y ago
      Gambling shows you a person's true nature.
      - fsckboy 4y ago
        do you mean how each person gambles distinguishes each person's nature, or the fact of gambling puts you in the nature of being a gambler and says other things about your personality?

yunohn 4y ago

The main part is the status signaling. And using the value of the university degree for future wealth building. Not hating, just observing.

avgcorrection 4y ago

More to the point: part of the benefit is to get into the wealthier classes yourself.

rayiner 4y ago

Yes, elite institutions are designed to help perpetuate class hierarchies. Why is this a "benefit" that society should tolerate?

QuarterReptile 4y ago
Seems like a pretty crappy design if the goal is to 'perpetuate class hierarchies', considering that they replace nepotism as a system for filling important roles in society. Hard to be more insular than that.

dumbotron 4y ago

It's the other way around. People from poorer backgrounds are brought in for the education of the rich students. It's like a zoo. Or it's so the rich students can take advantage of your talents once you leave.

mrdrozdov 4y ago

No.

Retric 4y ago

Not really, wealthy students alone don’t make or break elite schools. Yale for example doesn’t have nearly the reputation of Harvard even though 5 presidents went to Yale etc. In the end it’s the non wealthy students that make or break a schools reputation which is why schools give out scholarships etc. It’s a pure transaction your future achievements aid us and our reputation and resources aid you. Schools also specialize so Harvard doesn’t have nearly the reputation in say animation as CalArts etc.

nytesky 4y ago

My experience as a very poor student at elite university is that the classes don’t mix much, though there maybe exceptions for a standout athlete on a team sport. Part of it is logistics: wealthy had money for weekend ski trips, cars, didn’t have to work student jobs so had more free time. Maybe it’s changed? I was there over a decade ago.