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How much does a weather baloon cost? ...compared to a F22 flight, a missle + all the logistics? If it's cheap enough, there will probably be youtubers and tik
by ajsnigrutin 4y ago
How much does a weather baloon cost? ...compared to a F22 flight, a missle + all the logistics?
If it's cheap enough, there will probably be youtubers and tiktokers buying them en-masse just "for the lulz".
- justapassenger 4y agoAdd cost of SWAT team raiding your home, getting on the terrorist watch and few other fun things.
- hinkley 4y agoI heard rumors that during the bosnian war they were making fake SAM sites using microwave ovens with the door taken off. Get them to fire an air-to-ground missile at a device you got from the junkyard and an extension cord.
- ajsnigrutin 4y agoThis was supposedly done during the US bombing of yugoslavia... open microwaves transmit pulsed radiation, automatic systems think it's a radar and bomb the site.
- chinathrow 4y agoWhat automatic systems are out there bombing such things?
- oakwhiz 4y agoAGM-88 HARM (High-speed Anti-Radiation Missile)
- marshray 4y agoAGM-88 HARM (High-speed Anti-Radiation Missile) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AGM-88_HARM https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AGM-88_HARM
- Exmoor 4y agoPresumably, GP is referring to a HARM[0] or similar anti-radiation missile[1]. I believe the targeting automatically, but presumably the pilot still had to pull the trigger. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AGM-88_HARM https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AGM-88_HARM [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-radiation_missile https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-radiation_missile
- nikcub 4y agoCan confirm this and that it happen in both Bosnia and the Serbia campaigns. I had family members who were involved [0]. The deception methods that were applied were truly remarkable, they used decoy tanks and sent people out to imprint fake tank tracks into fields. They also understood IR and would shield real troops while leaving coal to burn in empty pillboxes and bunkers There was also the shoot down of the F-117A by what was effectively a rag-tag group of AA who planned the operation and pulled it off A lot of what was learned in the earlier Bosnia campaign was applied later in '99 - not just the use of decoys and microwaves, but using spotters to track the regular flight paths of incoming fighters and intermittently switching radar off and on (this is how Scott O'Grady was shot down in his F16) Gen. Wesley Clark was a huge advocate of the doctrine that you could win wars with air power alone and never have to sacrifice ground troops - that thinking changed after '99 [0] note that I in no way condone the overall goal of what took place there and those same family members would be the first to tell you it was horrific
- idonotknowwhy 4y agoWhere can one read more about this+
- mikrotikker 4y agoOperations room did a great video https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Is3R4ie21Mc https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Is3R4ie21Mc
- mysterydip 4y agoI heard the downing of the f-117 was due in large part to them flying the same patterns at the same time every night. Was this true? Or was there more involved in the AA hit?
- TEP_Kim_Il_Sung 4y agoIIRC it involved sacrificing one AA tank and using another to kill the plane.
- 4y ago
- azubinski 4y agoThis is a legend that is created by propaganda. Microwave ovens frequency is 2.45GHz with a narrow spectrum because microwave ovens are under strict RF regulation, like anything that is an intentional or unintentional radiator. Microwave oven magnetron's power is miserable compared with any AAD radar. Plus, microwave oven is not designed to emit RF energy when it's opened. So, emitted power will be even less. https://s3.wp.wsu.edu/uploads/sites/1254/2017/01/tang264.pdf https://s3.wp.wsu.edu/uploads/sites/1254/2017/01/tang264.pdf
- xattt 4y agoIf you’re in wartime, microwave oven door safety interlocks are out the window. The mesh of the door can be simply cut out, or the interlock microswitches pressed down with dowels or tape. The article you linked shows that there’s frequency drift over time with a microwave, and that different magnetrons have different spectrum profiles.
- KennyBlanken 4y agoMicrowaves transmit on a frequency nowhere near missile systems and are not modulated in any way resembling a missile fire control system, but cool story. ECM gear in US warplanes can classify a system based off its emissions and people think they're fooled by a microwave oven?
- zztop44 4y agoNot to be too provocative, but hugely expensive precision equipment being fooled by a microwave oven with the door cut off is exactly what I’d expect from the US military.
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- mulmen 4y ago[flagged]
- zztop44 4y agoBased on a long history of similar failures? As one example, claiming that they were bombing tanks when they were actually bombing “pneumatic rubber images of tanks” with heat sources strapped to them: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/377943.stm http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/377943.stm
- taneq 4y agoI mean, we had a SETI false alarm from the break room microwave door being opened without pressing the ‘stop’ button first…
- sorokod 4y agoYes, ELINT systems have been able to distinguish and classify emission signatures in high resolution for ages.
- andirk 4y agoDoesn't mean it worked. One can _attempt_ to create a decoy, especially if they have little knowledge of how radiation is transmitted into the environment. On South Park, Randy Marsh, a geologist with a Ph.D., puts his nuts in the microwave to get just enough cancer that he can qualify for medical marijuana. [0] People often say "nuke" when referring to using a microwave. I tried growing marijuana with CFL lights in my dorm room. When the cops showed up, I ate the biggest of the 3 plants, a few inches tall, right in front of them. [0] https://southpark.fandom.com/wiki/Randy_Marsh https://southpark.fandom.com/wiki/Randy_Marsh
- godelski 4y ago> How much does a weather baloon cost? ...compared to a F22 flight, a missle + all the logistics? If this is an actual spy object you also need to factor in the cost of the surveillance. How much money does the military lose due to the sensitive information being lost. Or how much does the military need to spend to regain strategic advantage? That probably costs more than a F22 flight and a missile. Obviously this depends on the number of objects that one needs to respond to. Cheap surveillance devices can obviously overwhelm this and then you have a war of attrition. In the example of the article we need to consider the cost of flights being downed (which they down when considering the cost of hitting an object and downing an aircraft. Quite expensive). Flights being canceled and/or delayed is expensive.
- ilyt 4y ago> How much money does the military lose due to the sensitive information being lost. ...probably around zero dollars. It would be different if it was above say active war zone but in this case it is almost as far from potential warzone as possible so probably absolutely nothing.
- politician 4y agoThere is a lot you can learn by floating a slow moving object rigged with antennas over your adversary and then noting which types of radar light you up and from which direction. Especially when you float them over military sites.
- barsonme 4y agoI’m sure the US military is smart enough to put their toys away before the balloon they’ve been watching for a week floats overhead.
- ben_w 4y agoHopefully. But my dad, who worked on (British) military IFF stuff, did have a story about an ICBM early warning system (I think American) that determined an attack was inbound because someone forgot about the Moon.
- paranoidrobot 4y agoDepends on your payload weight. Some random searching found a 300g payload baloon for USD$30[1]. That excludes filling costs and other bits. Anyone stupid enough to do it without following FAA rules (assuming launched in the US) is going to find themselves in some serious trouble. [1] https://www.highaltitudescience.com/collections/all https://www.highaltitudescience.com/collections/all
- blululu 4y agoThe helium is generally the biggest cost for a launch. You generally need welding grade helium instead of the party balloon variety which costs more. The price fluctuates a lot because of some complicated economics related to natural gas production, but getting that high can easily set you back $400.
- graz 4y agoWhy not hydrogen instead of helium? It's much cheaper and lighter.
- pard68 4y agoIf I recall rightly, hydrogen leaks out of the balloon so fast because of the change in pressure at high altitudes. Not a problem at lower ones, but way up I seem to recall that it is.
- ComputerGuru 4y agoFunny because helium leaks out faster than hydrogen under regular conditions, being smaller in practice.
- cmeacham98 4y agohttps://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hindenburg_disaster https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hindenburg_disaster In all seriousness, I have no idea.
- LastTrain 4y agoThe national weather service already launches > 180 weather balloons PER DAY.
- tomcam 4y agoThat sounded way too high to me. Turned out… That number is way too low. https://www.weather.gov/bmx/kidscorner_weatherballoons#:~:text=Twice%20a%20day%2C%20every%20day%20of%20the%20year%2C,Weather%20Service%20in%20the%20US%20and%20its%20territories https://www.weather.gov/bmx/kidscorner_weatherballoons#:~:te....
- Linosaurus 4y agoFrom your source it’s pretty’s exact, for the US. > Twice a day, every day of the year, weather balloons are released simultaneously from almost 900 locations worldwide! This includes 92 released by the National Weather Service in the US and its territories.
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- ant6n 4y agoApparently the real number is 184?
- jayknight 4y agoThis guy launches lots of balloons with homemade taking beacons. https://ham-tv.com/balloon/ https://ham-tv.com/balloon/
- ck2 4y agoEach one of those sidewinder rockets is half a million dollars. Think about how much healthcare, food, housing, we are burning up with this nonsense.
- mr_toad 4y agoIt was flying at an altitude and in an area where it might have hit a commercial airliner.
- ttul 4y agoYou’re missing the big picture. The wonderful, open, democratic society that we live in exists only because we secure it against adversaries. China has $1.4B striving, hungry citizens who would love to get a crack at that prosperity. If we let them, they will take it.
- lostlogin 4y ago> China has $1.4B striving, hungry citizens I assume that “$” is a oops?
- lnsru 4y agoYou don’t think it already took over? I have nothing here at home that wouldn’t be “made in China” expect couple of old engineering equipment and bigger furniture pieces. I am not sure about car, it was apparently assembled in Munich.
- amelius 4y agoThese rockets have to be tested regularly, and this is a great opportunity.
- wkat4242 4y agoWeird that they used a sidewinder actually. I mean, those are IR missiles and such a balloon wouldn't have a great signature.
- mulmen 4y agoMarginal cost? Zero. We fire more than two missiles in a week in training. Technically whoever launched this thing saved us money on the target. So the cost was negative.
- amelius 4y agoThe cost doesn't matter much. It's a great drill for the military.
- hencle 4y agoIf not equipped with anything cheap ones cost less then 100$
- tenpies 4y agoEarly on in the whole balloon situation, there was discussion about how - having seen the US response - the most logical course of action would be to launch 10 balloons. Then 100. Then 1000. By all means, let the US military shoot as many as they want. Let the propagandists call it "a great military display". Then, just like the West is doing with Ukraine when it comes to artillery rounds, watch the Western arsenal of A2A missiles drop to critical levels that they won't be able to rebuild with any sort of expediency. It should be a lesson the US learned a thousand times over, but we just saw them do it again: the aeronautical equivalent of bombing a farmer with an AK-47 and calling it a "victory".