4 ms·

I don't understand this comment. Do you have a problem with the terminology? Or with those investors in particular or with how they actually made their money or

I don't understand this comment. Do you have a problem with the terminology? Or with those investors in particular or with how they actually made their money or... ? To me it reads sort of like gatekeeping on who should have access to the market based on the lack of trading 'system' or whatever that means. Reminds me of the hedgies touting about the 'fundamentals' during the GME saga.

tptacek 4y ago
People are right to be cynical and critical of the GME fundamentals. It's a meme, not an investment.
- maximinus_thrax 4y ago
  it can be both a meme and an investment. If someone buys GME, while they hold the stock, they're by definition an investor.
  - tptacek 4y ago
    That's like saying you're an investor at the table as long as the roulette ball is still moving.
    - maximinus_thrax 4y ago
      So you're saying that the market is like a casino? Fair enough, then. But no, you're an investor as long as you have money on the table.
      - tptacek 4y ago
        No, I'm saying that GME is like a casino. That was an extremely lame attempt at an assumptive close.
        maximinus_thrax 4y ago
        It doesn't change semantics and if GME is like a casino, GME is not in isolation, it's part of the market. This says more about the market than about GME, tbh. And as long as you hold the stock, from the tax man's perspective, from the company's perspective, from your trading platform's perspective, you're an investor. It's irrelevant how long you had the stock. If you sell it, you're going to pay taxes on the profit from your 'investment', which makes you an investor.
        tptacek 4y ago
        No, in fact, not all listed products in the market are equivalent.
- kasey_junk 4y ago
  People are right to be cynical and critical of GME fundamentals but not all investing is fundamentals based.
bigtunacan 4y ago
Not OP, but it is incorrect terminology. An investor is someone who buys with the intention to hold and expects to generate income or capital appreciation. Investors care about the fundamentals and the long-term outcome. These case studies are all people that jumped in and tried to make a short-term profit off of market trends. This is very risky and akin to gambling; the formal terminology though is speculator, not investor.
- maximinus_thrax 4y ago
  > An investor is someone who buys with the intention to hold and expects to generate income or capital appreciation. Investors care about the fundamentals and the long-term outcome. Agree to disagree. An investor is someone who buys into financial vehicles with the intent of making more money. That's it. There are different types of investors but how they actually do it is an 'implementation detail'. You can be an investor and a speculator at the same time. While you're hold the stock, you can proxy vote, you can sell the stock, you're by definition an investor. EDIT: What does the IRS consider you an investor if you made money from stocks? Or do they check to see if you're interested in 'the fundamentals' first? Do they investment income and expenses like capital gains and such to be 'investment' incomes or 'speculation' incomes depending on your 'system' of investments? Asking for a friend to check if they'd get a tax break because they weren't real investors.
  - toomanyrichies 4y ago
    By that definition, as long as some people visit Las Vegas and play the slots with the intention of making money (as opposed to playing for fun), they too can be considered "investors". If we broaden the definition of "investor" as much as you're describing, the word becomes meaningless. It's important to distinguish between "investors" and "speculators", and this is how we do so.
    - maximinus_thrax 4y ago
      > By that definition, as long as some people visit Las Vegas and play the slots with the intention of making money (as opposed to playing for fun), they too can be considered "investors". No, because the casino does not sell securities (re-read my comment, please). You're conflating how the market behaves (or how specific stock behaves) vs the market itself. Ask the tax man, does money from casinos get taxed differently than capital gains from stock sells? Why is that? > If we broaden the definition of "investor" I'm not broadening anything https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Investor https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Investor
roundandround 4y ago
For decades the federal government's management of the market rules have paralleled state government's management of lotteries.. There's a definite risk of bubbles dragging a whole bunch of people into a "sure thing" period which then has to unwind like any other pyramid scheme. Hence the headline.

tptacek 4y ago

People are right to be cynical and critical of the GME fundamentals. It's a meme, not an investment.

maximinus_thrax 4y ago
it can be both a meme and an investment. If someone buys GME, while they hold the stock, they're by definition an investor.
- tptacek 4y ago
  That's like saying you're an investor at the table as long as the roulette ball is still moving.
  - maximinus_thrax 4y ago
    So you're saying that the market is like a casino? Fair enough, then. But no, you're an investor as long as you have money on the table.
    - tptacek 4y ago
      No, I'm saying that GME is like a casino. That was an extremely lame attempt at an assumptive close.
      - maximinus_thrax 4y ago
        It doesn't change semantics and if GME is like a casino, GME is not in isolation, it's part of the market. This says more about the market than about GME, tbh. And as long as you hold the stock, from the tax man's perspective, from the company's perspective, from your trading platform's perspective, you're an investor. It's irrelevant how long you had the stock. If you sell it, you're going to pay taxes on the profit from your 'investment', which makes you an investor.
        tptacek 4y ago
        No, in fact, not all listed products in the market are equivalent.
kasey_junk 4y ago
People are right to be cynical and critical of GME fundamentals but not all investing is fundamentals based.

bigtunacan 4y ago

Not OP, but it is incorrect terminology. An investor is someone who buys with the intention to hold and expects to generate income or capital appreciation. Investors care about the fundamentals and the long-term outcome. These case studies are all people that jumped in and tried to make a short-term profit off of market trends. This is very risky and akin to gambling; the formal terminology though is speculator, not investor.

maximinus_thrax 4y ago
> An investor is someone who buys with the intention to hold and expects to generate income or capital appreciation. Investors care about the fundamentals and the long-term outcome. Agree to disagree. An investor is someone who buys into financial vehicles with the intent of making more money. That's it. There are different types of investors but how they actually do it is an 'implementation detail'. You can be an investor and a speculator at the same time. While you're hold the stock, you can proxy vote, you can sell the stock, you're by definition an investor. EDIT: What does the IRS consider you an investor if you made money from stocks? Or do they check to see if you're interested in 'the fundamentals' first? Do they investment income and expenses like capital gains and such to be 'investment' incomes or 'speculation' incomes depending on your 'system' of investments? Asking for a friend to check if they'd get a tax break because they weren't real investors.
- toomanyrichies 4y ago
  By that definition, as long as some people visit Las Vegas and play the slots with the intention of making money (as opposed to playing for fun), they too can be considered "investors". If we broaden the definition of "investor" as much as you're describing, the word becomes meaningless. It's important to distinguish between "investors" and "speculators", and this is how we do so.
  - maximinus_thrax 4y ago
    > By that definition, as long as some people visit Las Vegas and play the slots with the intention of making money (as opposed to playing for fun), they too can be considered "investors". No, because the casino does not sell securities (re-read my comment, please). You're conflating how the market behaves (or how specific stock behaves) vs the market itself. Ask the tax man, does money from casinos get taxed differently than capital gains from stock sells? Why is that? > If we broaden the definition of "investor" I'm not broadening anything https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Investor https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Investor

roundandround 4y ago

For decades the federal government's management of the market rules have paralleled state government's management of lotteries.. There's a definite risk of bubbles dragging a whole bunch of people into a "sure thing" period which then has to unwind like any other pyramid scheme. Hence the headline.