4 ms·

And if you do become competent, you're soon promoted to another job you're not competent for.

AdamN 4y ago
Until eventually you are promoted to a role where you never become competent and there you stay.
jjoonathan 4y ago
And if you aren't promoted out of your competent zone, you will need to job hop out of your competent zone in order to obtain an actually competitive salary.
JohnFen 4y ago
This is why I turn down promotions. A promotion (especially to a management position) means another step toward the sort of work I don't enjoy and don't want to do.
- giantg2 4y ago
  You have to be careful how you do it. I was punished for turning it down. I was told that all I needed to do was work one extra hour per day (in addition to normal support, elevation, etc). Why would I take a position with higher expectations for a 7% raise and a 13% increase in hours - a rate cut? Plus, if I'm a high performer in my current role I should be getting bigger bonuses. I have a skip level where the department head asked what my career goals were. And my answer was to stay in my role. After all, I worked as a tech lead for a year and a senior dev the year after, with no talk of advancement until what I previously mentioned (which would be a rate cut). My manager got me from my desk the next work day and you could tell he was pissed. He asked me why I would say that sort of stuff and said that was "stupid". I generally tell the truth and am pretty honest - I guess I'm stupid that way. I heard through a friend thst they wanted to get rid of me for those comments and I managed to switch teams in time. My career has been in a downward spiral since.
  - JohnFen 4y ago
    True, you don't want to burn bridges. But taking the description of your situation at face value, I would have quit that company. Its values are so different from mine that I'd feel I have no business being there.
    - giantg2 4y ago
      I didn't feel like I was burning bridges. I obviously worded it more gently and stuff. It's consistently ranked as a best place to work. The written policies are great, but they don't matter because there are unwritten backroom policies. They are also one of the largest employers in the area and I can't move due to family issues. I was screwed, but sure, if one has other options, one should take them.
      - JohnFen 4y ago
        Yeah, that's a tough spot.
  - gnicholas 4y ago
    What would you do if this came up again? Would you still demur, but perhaps give a different reason (family needs right now, etc.)?
    - giantg2 4y ago
      Possibly the family needs thing (which is true for me now, but wasn't then). I'm not sure it would have even worked though. Once they bring up the prospect of a promotion, they've already used a bunch of political capital to open that spot for you and it's an insult to say no. I get is different for other companies or even just other departments, but that's how it was for that one. The other thing is, my company measures your engagement and potential by how ambitious you are. The reason they wanted to get rid of me is because they thought with an answer like that I would be disengaged and didn't have any potential.
      - 4y ago
- hbn 4y ago
  I haven't necessarily turned down promotions, but I've been at my job for over 2.5 years and have no desire to make the jump from "developer" to "senior developer" like most do, because while I'm sure you get a nice pay bump, I know firsthand it just means you're in way more meetings (of which I already think I'm in too many of) and writing less code. I don't even know what the extra pay would be, but it's probably not enough to be worth making my job less enjoyable.
  - JohnFen 4y ago
    It depends on what "senior developer" means, though. With my last 4 jobs, I was hired with the title "senior developer" -- but what it indicated was my pay grade, not my responsibilities. I was just a regular developer in them all.
  - ipaddr 4y ago
    You don't become a true senior developer until you find a way to get out of those meetings.
TeMPOraL 4y ago
For example, teaching new hires to do the job you just stopped doing in order to teach them - only for them to take over teaching the next batch as soon as they become somewhat competent.

Until eventually you are promoted to a role where you never become competent and there you stay.

And if you aren't promoted out of your competent zone, you will need to job hop out of your competent zone in order to obtain an actually competitive salary.

JohnFen 4y ago

This is why I turn down promotions. A promotion (especially to a management position) means another step toward the sort of work I don't enjoy and don't want to do.

giantg2 4y ago
You have to be careful how you do it. I was punished for turning it down. I was told that all I needed to do was work one extra hour per day (in addition to normal support, elevation, etc). Why would I take a position with higher expectations for a 7% raise and a 13% increase in hours - a rate cut? Plus, if I'm a high performer in my current role I should be getting bigger bonuses. I have a skip level where the department head asked what my career goals were. And my answer was to stay in my role. After all, I worked as a tech lead for a year and a senior dev the year after, with no talk of advancement until what I previously mentioned (which would be a rate cut). My manager got me from my desk the next work day and you could tell he was pissed. He asked me why I would say that sort of stuff and said that was "stupid". I generally tell the truth and am pretty honest - I guess I'm stupid that way. I heard through a friend thst they wanted to get rid of me for those comments and I managed to switch teams in time. My career has been in a downward spiral since.
- JohnFen 4y ago
  True, you don't want to burn bridges. But taking the description of your situation at face value, I would have quit that company. Its values are so different from mine that I'd feel I have no business being there.
  - giantg2 4y ago
    I didn't feel like I was burning bridges. I obviously worded it more gently and stuff. It's consistently ranked as a best place to work. The written policies are great, but they don't matter because there are unwritten backroom policies. They are also one of the largest employers in the area and I can't move due to family issues. I was screwed, but sure, if one has other options, one should take them.
    - JohnFen 4y ago
      Yeah, that's a tough spot.
- gnicholas 4y ago
  What would you do if this came up again? Would you still demur, but perhaps give a different reason (family needs right now, etc.)?
  - giantg2 4y ago
    Possibly the family needs thing (which is true for me now, but wasn't then). I'm not sure it would have even worked though. Once they bring up the prospect of a promotion, they've already used a bunch of political capital to open that spot for you and it's an insult to say no. I get is different for other companies or even just other departments, but that's how it was for that one. The other thing is, my company measures your engagement and potential by how ambitious you are. The reason they wanted to get rid of me is because they thought with an answer like that I would be disengaged and didn't have any potential.
    - 4y ago
hbn 4y ago
I haven't necessarily turned down promotions, but I've been at my job for over 2.5 years and have no desire to make the jump from "developer" to "senior developer" like most do, because while I'm sure you get a nice pay bump, I know firsthand it just means you're in way more meetings (of which I already think I'm in too many of) and writing less code. I don't even know what the extra pay would be, but it's probably not enough to be worth making my job less enjoyable.
- JohnFen 4y ago
  It depends on what "senior developer" means, though. With my last 4 jobs, I was hired with the title "senior developer" -- but what it indicated was my pay grade, not my responsibilities. I was just a regular developer in them all.
- ipaddr 4y ago
  You don't become a true senior developer until you find a way to get out of those meetings.

TeMPOraL 4y ago

For example, teaching new hires to do the job you just stopped doing in order to teach them - only for them to take over teaching the next batch as soon as they become somewhat competent.