11 ms·
Windows 11 is collecting more user data than you know
- smoldesu 4y ago> but you know the old adage, “If you are not paying for the product, then you are the product.” Isn't that a bit ironic considering Windows' two widely-regarded competitors (MacOS and Linux) technically cost nothing?
- Grazester 4y agoThat's because with MacOS you pay for the software when you buy the hardware. Microsoft did not make hardware until a few years ago.
- smoldesu 4y agoSure, but lawfully downloading MacOS costs nothing as far as I'm aware. Same goes for Linux, albeit with different licensing considerations. I just found the wording of the article funny, since it seems to run contrary to their report.
- Xylakant 4y agoThe MacOS license only allows running it on apple hardware. You can download all you want, but legally using it requires a mac.
- smoldesu 4y agoRight. free as in beer, not as in "Free".
- AraceliHarker 4y agoWindows for OEMs is licensed only for use on that PC, so it is no different from macOS in that respect.
- Grazester 4y agoOnce again that is because you can only lawfully run MacOS on Apple Hardware. Read the EULA. Therefore if you have the hardware it is assumed you or someone paid Apple for it so the software was also indirectly bought with it.
- smoldesu 4y agoThat doesn't mean I inherantly paid for it. My dad could hand me down his old Mac and I would be able to lawfully download and use it without spending a dime. The software is free (to download), it is not freely licensed though.
- Grazester 4y agoDoes it matter who hands you the software? If he didn't download it then you could have done so yourself, there was nothing preventing you from doing so and using it on the Mac that was already paid for(even if not by you).
- boomboomsubban 4y agoPretty sure I can freely download Windows 11 too, and if my father passed me down his old laptop I could reinstall Windows on it. I get what you're saying, but MacOS isn't cost free. It's only sold bundled with Apple hardware, and you must buy both.
- smoldesu 4y agoHence the "technical" clause in my original comment. Nothing stops me if I want to go (hypothetically) Hackintosh my Thinkpad. Apple lets you download the recovery image right from their CDN and (hypothetically) it's a cakewalk to mount OpenCore on it with an EFI off Github. Apple sure didn't make it, but they also don't have an "Activate MacOS" popup after you partition your drive (at least, in my expe- erm, hypothetically). So, agree to disagree. The preeminent point is that Microsoft is the only one charging directly for the licensing of their software, which is ironic if it spies on you incessantly. Agreed?
- thesuitonym 4y agoMacOS isn't the product, the hardware is.
- 29083011397778 4y ago> with MacOS you pay for the software when you buy the hardware By that logic the normal people are still in the clear, as most OEMs bundle a Windows license with the prebuilts they sell.
- 2OEH8eoCRo0 4y ago> https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/d/windows-11-home/dg7gmgf0krt0 https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/d/windows-11-home/dg7gmgf0kr... Says $139 for Windows 11 Home
- bitwize 4y agoWindows is pretty much shareware at this point. Unpaid-for copies will disable changing the background and show a nag screen, but will otherwise work fine.
- 323 4y agoMore importantly - if you don't pay for HN, you are the product.
- smoldesu 4y agoSometimes it feels that way, given how many ads I wade through for the good stuff.
- mdmglr 4y agoIs this true for Windows 11 pro or does it only apply to home? The article mentions home.
- WerBn 4y agohttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uFj8exxCj_M https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uFj8exxCj_M
- neogodless 4y agoSee https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34712640 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34712640 from 1 day ago (457 points, 336 comments) (Techspot.com article referencing the same YouTube source video.)
- gjsman-1000 4y agoWe had a similar link yesterday, in which there was one major flaw in the methodology: Windows 11, when set up, tires to load everything including the "Widgets." The Widgets, however, are not a native Windows app - the Widgets interface is actually just a Microsoft Edge WebView2, which loads a page from Bing. And, as a web wrapper, it also loads in all of Bing's telemetry that would normally apply to Bing searches, specifically for that wrapper. If you try using Wireshark with Windows Widgets disabled, you can expect very different results. Edit: Also, for people who didn't get my point, if you open the "News and Weather" section of Windows 10, that means you will almost certainly see similar Wireshark output. Thus the methodology is actually pointless for telling us how much Windows 11 vs 10 natively track - the only difference this establishes is that Windows 11 tries to load Widgets on first boot when Windows 10 waits for first click.
- userbinator 4y agoIf that is what the defaults are, then this is a fair comparison.
- iinnPP 4y agoThis is still terrible and unacceptable.
- Maursault 4y agoThen I guess it's alright, then.
- theNewMicrosoft 4y agoTrue, and not that but they consume a lot of resources as-well https://oofhours.com/2022/01/30/the-overhead-of-widgets-and-teams-in-windows-11/ https://oofhours.com/2022/01/30/the-overhead-of-widgets-and-...
- userbinator 4y agoI believe this is a rather pro-Microsoft site. The fact that it's posting articles like this should be a sign of how public sentiment has changed.
- kyriakos 4y agoControversy brings traffic. Everyone loves traffic.
- nerdjon 4y agoI recently rebuilt my computer and figured I would just go with Windows 11 to have all the new features and compatibility. I have been seriously debating on reinstalling and going back to 10. Just yesterday "gaming services" just decided it no longer wanted to run. With the talk of how much data this thing collects it really makes me uneasy. Even though I only use it for gaming (I use my Mac for everything else)... I still occasionally do other things on it for convenience. Edit: I also thoroughly enjoy my startup being interrupted by "finish setting up this device" once a week when its really just trying to get me to setup office, one drive, and others. Other side note, the fact that Office won't let me choose what I want to install... and it forces me to reinstall teams?!?
- jdthedisciple 4y agoEverybody should know by now that Windows 11 is a vastly inferior product compared to 10. Do not use it!!
- gjsman-1000 4y agoEgh... I'm not so against it in real life. For example, we've had Microsoft Accounts for over a decade in my family, and the refined design in Windows 11, like it or not, is more consistent than the mystery meat of Windows 10. So, we really didn't mind. For average non-technical users, Windows 11 is definitely more friendly for even basic tasks like "how do I pair a Bluetooth speaker" than Windows 10's Settings Panel. Though I completely understand and accept this isn't everyone. For us though, it was decent.
- nerdjon 4y agoI am not really sure if I could go so far as to say "vastly inferior". Windows 11 has its major issues but it also has some advantages when it comes to gaming and the xbox app. Things seem to be more integrated (however clearly not fully given my issue I mentioned) on that front which for me is a good thing since this is a gaming pc. Going with Windows 11 should have been an easy decision, but clearly they are screwing that up.
- ArnoVW 4y ago
- rezo2 4y agoThis is seriously needs a gov regulation at this point.
- AraceliHarker 4y agoI've heard that if you block domains related to telemetry using the hosts file, Microsoft Defender will warn you that your security is compromised.
- baal80spam 4y agoI'm still using Win10 (and don't plan to upgrade anytime soon, if ever) but that's not true on Win10. I use a great little utility called simplewall which has this functionality built in and I use MS Defender just fine with no warnings.
- hiccuphippo 4y agoI heard of this [0] software called O&O shutup that can disable all the calling home in Windows 11, does anyone have experience with it? I used to use privatezilla [1] in Windows 10 but I think they don't support Windows 11 yet. [0] https://www.oo-software.com/en/shutup10 https://www.oo-software.com/en/shutup10 [1] https://github.com/builtbybel/privatezilla https://github.com/builtbybel/privatezilla
- ohashi 4y agoI've used shutup 10 on multiple machines and was pleased.
- hit8run 4y agoWell well.. Anybody surprised?
- version_five 4y agoI've got a macbook nearing end of life and frustration with apple (the company, not the hardware which I'm happy with) has been pushing me to consider windows. It's good to get these reminders of how smarmy Microsoft is. I think I'll probably grit my teeth and buy another mac
- fakedang 4y agoGo with Linux and don't look back. Preferably mint, which is quite similar to the Windows look. The only issue I've faced is MS Office, but that's what I have my Mac for.
- nicce 4y agoLatest Mac (M2) hardware is just too good. My 2 year old desktop PC, which had top tier CPU, is now worse. It runs Linux but I can do the same stuff with Mac too. I even save with electricity bill by using Mac.
- fakedang 4y agoI agree too, but OP said he doesn't like Apple (for non technical reasons). I don't like them either, but M2 made me sell my soul to the devil.
- suslik 4y agoAny reasons not to consider Linux laptops? I have exactly the same predicament as you and feel like I'm finally ready to hop into the light side (Linux is by far the best desktop os these days).
- version_five 4y agoI should have clarified, I have an ubuntu machine I use for development. I use MS office and video conferencing a lot as well though so I need another machine for that.
- wintermutestwin 4y agoMy windows box can only collect data related to Steam and the games I play on it. I also keep it isolated from the rest of my network. Windows has been relegated to a status of "toy OS" to me as I do all my real work and non-gaming play on Mac and Linux. Great job MS!
- helf 4y agoWatching misinformation through misunderstanding and misconception start and then propagate through the internet in real time is both fascinating and terrifying.
- Maxburn 4y agoIs someone publishing a block list for this garbage that is compatible with PiHole or pfblockerng? Or has MSFT moved beyond these easy block methods?
- gowings97 4y agoMicrosoft knows they have 85+% of the consumer desktop/laptop market in the bag, and they're looking to build up an ad business through this telemetry. Enterprise users are a captive audience - pay through the nose with year over year price hikes, or good luck with Linux. Microsoft's position is increasingly take it or leave it. When Microsoft lets Panos Panay ('head' of Windows) run these insane UI / UX experiments and foists it on Enterprise users via Windows 11/12, Microsoft is playing with fire. It's ridiculous to ask front line workers relearn tasks because some designer at Microsoft had too much caffeine and in a manic state decided to design some insane UX regression in Windows 11. I would pay extra (more than a Windows 11 Pro license) to have a stripped down, Windows 2000 / NT Microsoft supported theme (I'm not installing UI/UX customizations from Stardock, sorry) that runs on the latest Windows kernel. Other Enterprises want the same thing - UI / UX stability, running on the current Windows kernel.
- devinprater 4y agoJust think of all the people with disabilities who are using Windows right now, in banks, hospitals, the IRS, therapy, and government positions, with Microsoft slirping up all your data. All because Linux accessibility is too crappy to be useful for most people with disabilities, especially blind people. All your data, going all to Microsoft. Keep that in mind as y'all use and develop your Linux desktops.
- ridgered4 4y agoI've seen a number of pieces about privacy problems with Windows 11 but they've struck me as kind of odd. To me, Windows 10 was an awful privacy nightmare and Windows 11 is just more of the same. They're going to turn the screws on TPM requirements and press even harder on Microsoft accounts, but fundamentally it just seems like a continuation of the path things were already on. It is fine to remind everyone of what is going on, but this war was lost 8 years ago.