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Is this really how big players killed hardware startups in Europe? Sincerely asking because I live in Europe now and don't know the background. I always wonder

Is this really how big players killed hardware startups in Europe? Sincerely asking because I live in Europe now and don't know the background. I always wonder how much this causes EU electronics prices to be higher than the States.

vinay427 4y ago
Most of that price difference tends to be the higher (and included in the price) national VAT compared to US state/local sales taxes which aren’t typically included.
- jjallen 4y ago
  Yup but not Switzerland, where the VAT is 7.7%. Prices are still higher there. Something like 10-20% for Apple products, which I mention because this article is about Apple products.
  - vinay427 4y ago
    Yes, I used to live in Switzerland so I'm aware but I seem to have interpreted your use of "EU" too literally. :)
  - Swenrekcah 4y ago
    Prices also reflect people’s purchasing power which is rather high in Switzerland.
    - ajsnigrutin 4y ago
      Yep, also wages are higher there so there is a higher cost of running stores there. This is especially visible in stuff requiring manual work (eg. premade sandwiches in a store). On the other hand, everyone I know from switzerland goes (usually) to germany to shop there, and our balkan "gastarbaiters" go home, and do "everything" here (dentist, haircuts,...).
      - vinay427 4y ago
        > everyone I know from switzerland goes (usually) to germany to shop there This is common in border cities such as Basel, but seems relatively unusual in my experience for people living in Zurich, Bern, etc. It's often not worth the extra few hours of travel from these cities on top of potential customs formalities.
crote 4y ago
It's bullshit. Source: I'm employed by a hardware startup in Europe, specifically one selling similar types of DIY hardware. Most of our products are kits requiring soldering, and by far the most common cause of failure is user assembly errors. We offer great support trying to assist the customer in fixing any errors, but it is still the customer's fault if they really screw it up - which rarely happens. All non-trivial parts are 100% tested in the factory, and we explicitly instruct the customer to verify they function before installation. Defects do still happen, but are not very common. We'll just send a replacement without any fuss, because we budgeted for that. I do not believe long-term warranty requests have ever happened at our company.

vinay427 4y ago

Most of that price difference tends to be the higher (and included in the price) national VAT compared to US state/local sales taxes which aren’t typically included.

jjallen 4y ago
Yup but not Switzerland, where the VAT is 7.7%. Prices are still higher there. Something like 10-20% for Apple products, which I mention because this article is about Apple products.
- vinay427 4y ago
  Yes, I used to live in Switzerland so I'm aware but I seem to have interpreted your use of "EU" too literally. :)
- Swenrekcah 4y ago
  Prices also reflect people’s purchasing power which is rather high in Switzerland.
  - ajsnigrutin 4y ago
    Yep, also wages are higher there so there is a higher cost of running stores there. This is especially visible in stuff requiring manual work (eg. premade sandwiches in a store). On the other hand, everyone I know from switzerland goes (usually) to germany to shop there, and our balkan "gastarbaiters" go home, and do "everything" here (dentist, haircuts,...).
    - vinay427 4y ago
      > everyone I know from switzerland goes (usually) to germany to shop there This is common in border cities such as Basel, but seems relatively unusual in my experience for people living in Zurich, Bern, etc. It's often not worth the extra few hours of travel from these cities on top of potential customs formalities.

crote 4y ago

It's bullshit. Source: I'm employed by a hardware startup in Europe, specifically one selling similar types of DIY hardware. Most of our products are kits requiring soldering, and by far the most common cause of failure is user assembly errors. We offer great support trying to assist the customer in fixing any errors, but it is still the customer's fault if they really screw it up - which rarely happens. All non-trivial parts are 100% tested in the factory, and we explicitly instruct the customer to verify they function before installation. Defects do still happen, but are not very common. We'll just send a replacement without any fuss, because we budgeted for that. I do not believe long-term warranty requests have ever happened at our company.