8 ms·

I was a senior dev at a big tech and got laid off in November. I have applied to hundreds of places. Not a lot of responses. I have been doing interview preps t

I was a senior dev at a big tech and got laid off in November. I have applied to hundreds of places. Not a lot of responses. I have been doing interview preps the whole time. It has been very demoralizing and I am thinking of switching careers to something else. I have been considering skilled trades. I like carpentry in particular.

candiddevmike 4y ago
Did you give leetcode tests during interviews while you were working at big tech?
- Bilal_io 4y ago
  I see where this is going...
- Our_Benefactors 4y ago
  Is the implication “if you did, and you’re having problems passing those tests now, that’s karmic retribution”? If so, please keep in mind that interviewers at big tech generally have to follow the HR script for interviewing. I have very little leeway as an interviewer in how to conduct the interview. I can select from a narrow group of problems, and I ask each candidate a couple of “soft skills” questions to gauge their level of experience, but the bulk of the interview still relies on their performance on the technical assessment.
mikeg8 4y ago
As someone with more carpentry experience (paid) than dev experience, but strong interests in both worlds, I’m curious how you would reconcile taking an approximate 50% reduction in comp. Don’t know the numbers for your area but knowing Bay Area salaries, senior devs make 2-2.5x journeyman carpenters.
- gtirloni 4y ago
  I did that to work for a non-profit in a field I was a bit interested in. It's okay in the beginning but I soon started to regret the huge paycut. Wouldn't recommend.
  - djhn 4y ago
    Not to mention the toll it takes on your body.
- teacpde 4y ago
  As someone who has no carpentry experience but has spent a lot of time on woodworking as a hobby, I absolutely don't look forward to a carpentry job, even if the tech job market goes further south. Jobs take the fun out of your hobby sooner or later, and I have learned that lesson with software development.
  - josephg 4y ago
    I had that early in my software career. I've enjoyed programming since I was a kid, but after getting my first fulltime job I started questioning if I even enjoyed it. Turned out I was just getting burned out from the feature factory work I was doing. I took a little break and did some fun hobby projects, and I instantly fell in love with programming again. I think making a programming career sustainable requires that we do work we actually enjoy. A few decades later, I know what I do and don't want in a workplace. For me that means: No corporate gigs, no java, no barnacle coworkers and no jira. Yes to smart coworkers, projects I care about, technically interesting work, small teams, and a culture of responsibility taking and ownership.
- tspike 4y ago
  Save 50% of your software income and get to a point where you’ll be set for retirement without saving another penny and then you can do what you want as long as you cover your expenses.
moffkalast 4y ago
Every programmer eventually becomes a woodworker, whether they like it or not.
- barbazoo 4y ago
  Some of them become blacksmiths as I recently learned.
  - Apocryphon 4y ago
    Wonder how hard it is to get started with glassblowing
    - ElfinTrousers 4y ago
      The late Ezra Zygmuntowicz was a glassblower by training and trade long before starting Engineyard.
    - mmcgaha 4y ago
      You should visit the coast of Maine this summer and find out: https://www.haystack-mtn.org/ https://www.haystack-mtn.org/
    - coldpie 4y ago
      As a hobbyist? Not hard at all! If you're in a medium/large city, there's almost certainly one or two glassblowing studios around that have classes. As a career? That's a whole lot harder.
    - 83 4y ago
      If you aren't a homeowner the facilities are the hard part. Need a large space where you can have a glass furnace and concrete floors that won't get damaged by molten glass. Lampworking is easier to get started in, but still need a place to run a torch (ideally with a vent hood) and store oxygen/propane cylinders.
    - itronitron 4y ago
      Definitely go to a glassblowing camp if you are interested. If you have prior experience trying to control a fluid medium, like pottery for example, then that may help. In order to set up your own shop you'll want to be somewhere with low fuel costs.
latchkey 4y ago
I've been slowly remodeling my tiny condo. Drywall, plumbing, simple electrical, windows, painting, flooring, etc. Teaching myself most of the stuff just off YouTube. It is a lot of manual labor work which is exhausting and gives me a lot of respect for the trade crafts, but I'm enjoying it quite a bit and slowly accumulating all the tools as well. None of this is rocket science. In the back of my mind, I think of flipping houses as something to do if I ever get laid off from my tech job. I look at places coming up for sale on Zillow that were obvious flips and they all look like the parts all came straight out of Ikea / HomeDepot (and usually the most ugly stuff to choose from).
- bombcar 4y ago
  Flipping can work but it can be much harder to be reasonably profitable without insane appreciation. Your best bet is fixers - houses with obvious major issues that everyone is scared of but you know you can fix reasonably cheaply. This can mean buying a $500k house with major foundation damage for $100k because everyone is scared - but you know a whole foundation replacement will only run you $200k. https://johntreed.com/products/fixers https://johntreed.com/products/fixers
  - HarryHirsch 4y ago
    If it's that bad you need a construction loan, and that is a wholly different line of business, the bank will want to see proof that you have experience and a financial buffer to pull off the project. But if you have both, good on you!
  - jaclaz 4y ago
    Well your own link states how fixers are not really a good idea, but you want "disasters" and trasform them in "fixers". And it is not like you can find such disasters easily, nor that you can easily be able to make them into fixers, without years of previous experience. The whole approach, "everyone is scared but you know ..." is based on the assumption that you know more than anyone else (possibly including many people dealing with this kind of stuff for decades), I doubt that anyone can learn what is needed in this field overnight, by reading a book, and should it be possible, everyone would do it, not just you.
balls187 4y ago
Keep your head up; as you can imagine places that are actively recruiting are being inundated with resumes, many of which have Amazon, MSFT, Google, etc on them. Has your network been helpful?
shyn3 4y ago
March it heats up. Check your resume over. If I can get a job without any big tech you will be fine. Make your resume focus on numbers and maybe have someone review it for free.
- pschuegr 4y ago
  What do you mean by "focus on numbers"?
  - cableshaft 4y ago
    - Wrote feature that saved the company $X millions of dollars. - Automated manual process that saved the company X hours each time they do this process. - Built a website that served X00,000 customers over the span of Y months. - Managed X number of people on this project. Instead of: - Was responsible for making this software, filling out forms, talking to client, etc. - I built a website with a database. - I used X, Y, and Z technologies on this project. Focus on bullets that show real numbers in metrics that companies care about (saving time, money, gaining customers, number of reports), wherever possible. The others can be useful too, but shouldn't be what you highlight (list of tech doesn't hurt for hitting buzzwords, though).
FrenchDadon 4y ago
I moved to France at 60. For more than 20 years, I have developed software in vb and SQL, don't laugh. Two years ago, I found a job as a freelancer. It seems that my client is happy, month after month the contract is renewed. The daily rate is not among the highest but let me have a good life in France. I don't know how long this will last. The only problem is that I don't have time for my passion, woodworking with manual tools. Conclusion, there, there must be a solution for you as well.
- namdnay 4y ago
  Bear in mind that if you are declaring yourself as an independent contractor but working full time for a single customer for a long time, the tax authorities may consider you are in effect an employee and ask both you and the customer to reimburse employment contributions
cadooo 4y ago
Honestly it's not a bad option if you except the work will suck. I did it for a while after getting severance from a tech job. I did a first year carpentry program. We built a house from the ground up for Habitat for Humanity. After the program I worked in the industry for a while. When you are starting in carpentry it's a lot of grunt work. People won't care if you have any training. After a full day of vacuuming drywall dust I had enough. Quit and landed a programming job. I still think it was a valuable experience. It shows you value of hard work. If there is time to lean there is time to clean is a very real thing. I was in the best shape of my life. I now have the skills to do most of my own Renos.
anthomtb 4y ago
I am getting all sorts of confused by some of the responses here. Does woodworking mean building pretty furniture? Whereas carpentry means building big sturdy structures?
- hmsp 4y ago
  Yes.
millerm 4y ago
I've been doing this stuff for decades. It has become an unbearable career. It's too late for me in life to change it as there are other circumstances that have made certain paths impossible for me to do. I'm screwed. Meanwhile, the uppers keep getting paid more and more while I get tossed. I honestly believe this is my final year on this planet.
- bedobi 4y ago
  Call 988, this is no joking matter
- georgeecollins 4y ago
  >> I honestly believe this is my final year on this planet. You are obviously an intelligent person who is entertaining some unhealthy thoughts. Many people have felt the way you feel-- it happens. But you need to seek therapy or the council of someone you trust to put your problems in perspective. Your life is precious even if it doesn't feel that way right now.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- beebeepka 4y ago
  I don't think you need "therapy", as in professional mental health sessions. Do share what's up, though. Unhappiness isn't that uncommon. I am not very happy and have been oscillating between "I should quit first thing tomorrow" and "but I have to do the grind while I still can"
- IE6 4y ago
  I hope tomorrow is better for you!
crucialfelix 4y ago
As software developers, everything we build will be obsolete, discarded or dead in 5-10 years. We are craftsmen of the ephemeral.
- johnbellone 4y ago
  Ah, I miss the view of someone that has never worked outside of startups or technology sectors.
  - crucialfelix 4y ago
    I majored in classical music, released 40 records, played to hundreds of thousands of people, produced national US radio shows, recorded bands, tended bars, washed cars, been a cook, built generative music systems and much more. It is precisely due to my varied experience that I can point this out: the vast majority of startups and tech is dust in the wind.
- josephg 4y ago
  There's plenty of code already written today that will still be in use long after we're dead. (Well, assuming gpt10 doesn't rewrite it all). If ephemeral codebases bother you, work on projects that will last longer. Things I expect will outlive us: Chrome, PostgreSQL, SQLite, LLVM, Linux/Windows/MacOS, Unity, Nodejs, Nginx. I have a few small contributions in chromium and nodejs. There's something really delightful about looking at a strangers' laptop and knowing some of my code is in their machine.
gen220 4y ago
Have you considered working with any third-party recruiters? It seems that going through one is the only way to get the attention of most companies, these days. I would advise not taking the lack of responses personally, because cold applications are, generally coldly, disposed of (a human never passes judgement on them). FWIW, I found my last two jobs through third party recruiters, and still count them as friends. It's an industry with an oddly-poor reputation, but there are some real gems of people to be found in it.

candiddevmike 4y ago

Did you give leetcode tests during interviews while you were working at big tech?

Bilal_io 4y ago
I see where this is going...
Our_Benefactors 4y ago
Is the implication “if you did, and you’re having problems passing those tests now, that’s karmic retribution”? If so, please keep in mind that interviewers at big tech generally have to follow the HR script for interviewing. I have very little leeway as an interviewer in how to conduct the interview. I can select from a narrow group of problems, and I ask each candidate a couple of “soft skills” questions to gauge their level of experience, but the bulk of the interview still relies on their performance on the technical assessment.

mikeg8 4y ago

As someone with more carpentry experience (paid) than dev experience, but strong interests in both worlds, I’m curious how you would reconcile taking an approximate 50% reduction in comp. Don’t know the numbers for your area but knowing Bay Area salaries, senior devs make 2-2.5x journeyman carpenters.

gtirloni 4y ago
I did that to work for a non-profit in a field I was a bit interested in. It's okay in the beginning but I soon started to regret the huge paycut. Wouldn't recommend.
- djhn 4y ago
  Not to mention the toll it takes on your body.
teacpde 4y ago
As someone who has no carpentry experience but has spent a lot of time on woodworking as a hobby, I absolutely don't look forward to a carpentry job, even if the tech job market goes further south. Jobs take the fun out of your hobby sooner or later, and I have learned that lesson with software development.
- josephg 4y ago
  I had that early in my software career. I've enjoyed programming since I was a kid, but after getting my first fulltime job I started questioning if I even enjoyed it. Turned out I was just getting burned out from the feature factory work I was doing. I took a little break and did some fun hobby projects, and I instantly fell in love with programming again. I think making a programming career sustainable requires that we do work we actually enjoy. A few decades later, I know what I do and don't want in a workplace. For me that means: No corporate gigs, no java, no barnacle coworkers and no jira. Yes to smart coworkers, projects I care about, technically interesting work, small teams, and a culture of responsibility taking and ownership.
tspike 4y ago
Save 50% of your software income and get to a point where you’ll be set for retirement without saving another penny and then you can do what you want as long as you cover your expenses.

moffkalast 4y ago

Every programmer eventually becomes a woodworker, whether they like it or not.

barbazoo 4y ago
Some of them become blacksmiths as I recently learned.
- Apocryphon 4y ago
  Wonder how hard it is to get started with glassblowing
  - ElfinTrousers 4y ago
    The late Ezra Zygmuntowicz was a glassblower by training and trade long before starting Engineyard.
  - mmcgaha 4y ago
    You should visit the coast of Maine this summer and find out: https://www.haystack-mtn.org/ https://www.haystack-mtn.org/
  - coldpie 4y ago
    As a hobbyist? Not hard at all! If you're in a medium/large city, there's almost certainly one or two glassblowing studios around that have classes. As a career? That's a whole lot harder.
  - 83 4y ago
    If you aren't a homeowner the facilities are the hard part. Need a large space where you can have a glass furnace and concrete floors that won't get damaged by molten glass. Lampworking is easier to get started in, but still need a place to run a torch (ideally with a vent hood) and store oxygen/propane cylinders.
  - itronitron 4y ago
    Definitely go to a glassblowing camp if you are interested. If you have prior experience trying to control a fluid medium, like pottery for example, then that may help. In order to set up your own shop you'll want to be somewhere with low fuel costs.

latchkey 4y ago

I've been slowly remodeling my tiny condo. Drywall, plumbing, simple electrical, windows, painting, flooring, etc. Teaching myself most of the stuff just off YouTube. It is a lot of manual labor work which is exhausting and gives me a lot of respect for the trade crafts, but I'm enjoying it quite a bit and slowly accumulating all the tools as well. None of this is rocket science. In the back of my mind, I think of flipping houses as something to do if I ever get laid off from my tech job. I look at places coming up for sale on Zillow that were obvious flips and they all look like the parts all came straight out of Ikea / HomeDepot (and usually the most ugly stuff to choose from).

bombcar 4y ago
Flipping can work but it can be much harder to be reasonably profitable without insane appreciation. Your best bet is fixers - houses with obvious major issues that everyone is scared of but you know you can fix reasonably cheaply. This can mean buying a $500k house with major foundation damage for $100k because everyone is scared - but you know a whole foundation replacement will only run you $200k. https://johntreed.com/products/fixers https://johntreed.com/products/fixers
- HarryHirsch 4y ago
  If it's that bad you need a construction loan, and that is a wholly different line of business, the bank will want to see proof that you have experience and a financial buffer to pull off the project. But if you have both, good on you!
- jaclaz 4y ago
  Well your own link states how fixers are not really a good idea, but you want "disasters" and trasform them in "fixers". And it is not like you can find such disasters easily, nor that you can easily be able to make them into fixers, without years of previous experience. The whole approach, "everyone is scared but you know ..." is based on the assumption that you know more than anyone else (possibly including many people dealing with this kind of stuff for decades), I doubt that anyone can learn what is needed in this field overnight, by reading a book, and should it be possible, everyone would do it, not just you.

balls187 4y ago

Keep your head up; as you can imagine places that are actively recruiting are being inundated with resumes, many of which have Amazon, MSFT, Google, etc on them. Has your network been helpful?

shyn3 4y ago

March it heats up. Check your resume over. If I can get a job without any big tech you will be fine. Make your resume focus on numbers and maybe have someone review it for free.

pschuegr 4y ago
What do you mean by "focus on numbers"?
- cableshaft 4y ago
  - Wrote feature that saved the company $X millions of dollars. - Automated manual process that saved the company X hours each time they do this process. - Built a website that served X00,000 customers over the span of Y months. - Managed X number of people on this project. Instead of: - Was responsible for making this software, filling out forms, talking to client, etc. - I built a website with a database. - I used X, Y, and Z technologies on this project. Focus on bullets that show real numbers in metrics that companies care about (saving time, money, gaining customers, number of reports), wherever possible. The others can be useful too, but shouldn't be what you highlight (list of tech doesn't hurt for hitting buzzwords, though).

FrenchDadon 4y ago

I moved to France at 60. For more than 20 years, I have developed software in vb and SQL, don't laugh. Two years ago, I found a job as a freelancer. It seems that my client is happy, month after month the contract is renewed. The daily rate is not among the highest but let me have a good life in France. I don't know how long this will last. The only problem is that I don't have time for my passion, woodworking with manual tools. Conclusion, there, there must be a solution for you as well.

namdnay 4y ago
Bear in mind that if you are declaring yourself as an independent contractor but working full time for a single customer for a long time, the tax authorities may consider you are in effect an employee and ask both you and the customer to reimburse employment contributions

cadooo 4y ago

Honestly it's not a bad option if you except the work will suck. I did it for a while after getting severance from a tech job. I did a first year carpentry program. We built a house from the ground up for Habitat for Humanity. After the program I worked in the industry for a while. When you are starting in carpentry it's a lot of grunt work. People won't care if you have any training. After a full day of vacuuming drywall dust I had enough. Quit and landed a programming job. I still think it was a valuable experience. It shows you value of hard work. If there is time to lean there is time to clean is a very real thing. I was in the best shape of my life. I now have the skills to do most of my own Renos.

anthomtb 4y ago

I am getting all sorts of confused by some of the responses here. Does woodworking mean building pretty furniture? Whereas carpentry means building big sturdy structures?

hmsp 4y ago
Yes.

millerm 4y ago

I've been doing this stuff for decades. It has become an unbearable career. It's too late for me in life to change it as there are other circumstances that have made certain paths impossible for me to do. I'm screwed. Meanwhile, the uppers keep getting paid more and more while I get tossed. I honestly believe this is my final year on this planet.

bedobi 4y ago
Call 988, this is no joking matter
georgeecollins 4y ago
>> I honestly believe this is my final year on this planet. You are obviously an intelligent person who is entertaining some unhealthy thoughts. Many people have felt the way you feel-- it happens. But you need to seek therapy or the council of someone you trust to put your problems in perspective. Your life is precious even if it doesn't feel that way right now.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
beebeepka 4y ago
I don't think you need "therapy", as in professional mental health sessions. Do share what's up, though. Unhappiness isn't that uncommon. I am not very happy and have been oscillating between "I should quit first thing tomorrow" and "but I have to do the grind while I still can"
IE6 4y ago
I hope tomorrow is better for you!

crucialfelix 4y ago

As software developers, everything we build will be obsolete, discarded or dead in 5-10 years. We are craftsmen of the ephemeral.

johnbellone 4y ago
Ah, I miss the view of someone that has never worked outside of startups or technology sectors.
- crucialfelix 4y ago
  I majored in classical music, released 40 records, played to hundreds of thousands of people, produced national US radio shows, recorded bands, tended bars, washed cars, been a cook, built generative music systems and much more. It is precisely due to my varied experience that I can point this out: the vast majority of startups and tech is dust in the wind.
josephg 4y ago
There's plenty of code already written today that will still be in use long after we're dead. (Well, assuming gpt10 doesn't rewrite it all). If ephemeral codebases bother you, work on projects that will last longer. Things I expect will outlive us: Chrome, PostgreSQL, SQLite, LLVM, Linux/Windows/MacOS, Unity, Nodejs, Nginx. I have a few small contributions in chromium and nodejs. There's something really delightful about looking at a strangers' laptop and knowing some of my code is in their machine.

gen220 4y ago

Have you considered working with any third-party recruiters? It seems that going through one is the only way to get the attention of most companies, these days. I would advise not taking the lack of responses personally, because cold applications are, generally coldly, disposed of (a human never passes judgement on them). FWIW, I found my last two jobs through third party recruiters, and still count them as friends. It's an industry with an oddly-poor reputation, but there are some real gems of people to be found in it.