5 ms·

Tipping Is Spreading and It Sucks

69 points by 27153 4y ago

tibbydudeza 4y ago
I tip and it is usually the norm of 10% - it is a physically demanding minimum wage job and they deserve it just need to get my order right, maybe offer alternatives, leave me in peace to eat and not spit in my food.
esarbe 4y ago
Tipping is a way for cheap employers to skimp on the pay. It's a horrible practice and it needs to die. You were happy with the food and have the service a tip? What about the cooks and the other people involved making sure you got an enjoyable experience? They don't get anything. The pretty girl? She gets triple the tips the older guy gets, despite being equally friendly and humorous and polite. Just pay those people a decent salary already.
black_13 4y ago
[dead]
blippage 4y ago
Brit here. I view tipping as dishonest. It's a trick to make something seem cheaper than it is. They're your employees, you pay them. Don't expect me to be a charity. Give me the cost up-front. If I decide it's too much, then I should take my business elsewhere. "That's the price, cough up or piss off." Be honest and straight-forward in your dealings.
variadix 4y ago
The Starbucks near me recently switched from taking your card at the drive thru to holding a card reader out the window which asks for a tip. It seems kind of absurd to ask someone to fill out the tip amount with one hand from their car.
hakfoo 4y ago
I went to buy some specific keyboard switches last night. Ended up using one of the myriad small random vendors that the industry is full of, clearly on a Shopify cart. The checkout process had a tip button. For physical goods that will arrive in my mailbox in several weeks. Skippable and 1 to 3 percent, but still, this completely undemines any model of how a purchase transaction works to me.
not_me_ever 4y ago
Quick tip: If you can't afford to eat out -> learn to cook.
tabtab 4y ago
Minor tipping is a good thing in that it's a way to give feedback and create incentive. The problem is that the expected amount is too high. A full-service restaurant expects around 15%, but a sandwich shop should expect more like 5%. Tipping should also be done after the service is rendered, not before. Otherwise, it has no feedback value.
- mindslight 4y ago
  A sandwich shop is selling you an item for a price. Handing you the item you bought isn't rendering a service, and so there's nothing to tip for. The idea of tips as feedback is fallacious - a server doesn't know if a 15% vs 20% tip is due to their performance or just the person tipping. And the service has to be really bad to leave no tip at all (and even then, there are plenty of people who do this regardless of service). Furthermore, especially with a to go order, customers won't even see their orders until they get to where they're going and unpack. The real incentive/feedback in the restaurant industry is whether customers come back. The answer to the larger topic is just say no to attempts to expand the terrible practice - the original Uber had it right. And stop making excuses for not paying attention to dark patterned UIs, like being perpetually "in a rush" or worried about the people behind you in line. Take some responsibility for knowing how much your order should cost, so you notice when the big number disagrees.
- peoplearepeople 4y ago
  It's a terrible thing. Just set the price and be done with it.
  - edmundsauto 4y ago
    At least with tips, I’m reasonably confident the staff are getting it.
kgc 4y ago
Service seems to be better in places that don’t accept tips. Maybe the business should be responsible for maintaining a level of service, not individual customers.
- esarbe 4y ago
  That sounds like a reasonable assumption.
boh 4y ago
I think it's justifiable to tip for service but if you're just picking something up, it's retail, and that's not something you should be tipping for. The writer should've choose a custom tip of $0.
RealPlastic 4y ago
I simply do not return to a restaurant where the server holds the POS screen in front of you at the table for all to see. Usually the tip is pre-selected for something like 25%. Clicking "custom" and choosing a different amount is intended to make you feel embarrassed. Another place is counter service. They want a tip right after you order and are paying. Haven't even tried the food. No idea how the service is going to be.....and you want a tip....based on what? These places will not see me again.
- justinclift 4y ago
  Can you type in a negative amount? :D
- thatguy0900 4y ago
  An easier solution is just to not care about the opinion of random people you'll never meet again in a shop. I still pay 10-15% in traditional tipping settings, and nothing elsewhere. It doesn't bother me at all if anyone thinks that is too low.
- thunky 4y ago
  I had this reaction too, but then I heard a NPR segment where the interviewee mentioned that often times counter tip money doesn't go to the workers. So it's basically just the business asking you for more money than the posted price. After hearing that it became easier to not leave a tip at the cash register. I think that's better for all involved than avoiding these businesses.
  - seanmcdirmid 4y ago
    I don't think that is legal in many US states. It is clearly not allowed in my state: https://www.lni.wa.gov/workers-rights/wages/tips-and-service-charges https://www.lni.wa.gov/workers-rights/wages/tips-and-service...
    - thunky 4y ago
      Interesting, are you seeing an explosion of counter tip prompts there?
sublinear 4y ago
I only tip bartenders, delivery people, and waiters at actual sit-down restaurants after the check arrives. Everyone else gets 0. I don't think I've ever had any friction about this. Sounds like social anxiety.
- Gigachad 4y ago
  I don’t see what the problem is. It’s not mandatory, you can literally just tip 0 for everything.
jfengel 4y ago
I was happy to tip, even for counter service, during the pandemic. I think it sucks that people were out literally risking their lives to give me a cup of coffee and a sandwich. "Essential" personnel have long been underpaid. The pandemic made that more obvious. I would rather that they get a decent salary, and set prices accordingly, but I can at least show my gratitude for the genuine risk they're taking. Now that the pandemic is over, of course the store owners don't want to reverse the ratchet. They've had a hard time keeping staff, because they're fed up, and they're hoping to raise prices without raising prices. I know that tipping is controversial even among tipped staff. For many the net result is well above minimum wage, and they'd take an effective cut if we paid them $15/hour. Places that experiment with eliminating tipping often give up, in part because customers are bad at math and will go to places that are "cheaper" on the menu. It's just a bad situation. It's clear that the lack of tipping in Europe does not create bad service, but there doesn't seem to be any way to that point from here.
- 31337Logic 4y ago
  > I was happy to tip, even for counter service, during the pandemic. I think it sucks that people were out literally risking their lives to give me a cup of coffee and a sandwich. And you were out, also, literally risking your life to pay for it. That argument goes both ways so shouldn't be seen as the sole/primary reason to tip.
  - adammarples 4y ago
    Yes but the server came into contact with 500 people that day, for minimum wage. We came into contact with just one, got a cup of coffee out of it and then went to WFH on tech money.
    - zaphirplane 4y ago
      The STD ads tell us otherwise
- Gigachad 4y ago
  If the average person starts tipping less or nothing, the workers will all go to the businesses with higher base prices and wages. It won’t matter if the other store has lower printed prices because they won’t have anyone working the business.
hkatx 4y ago
Similar to another user, I tend to visit the places less often that have the tip terminal. It happened more subconsciously. Nearly every coffee place does get ruled out except establishments like starbucks. Even corporate chains have a tip menu, last I encountered was during thanksgiving day and I was happy to tip that day since holidays. But moving on, I order using order ahead feature. The tip menu is there but its a software UI with no barista standing behind. After reading the article, I realized even for picking food up I end up using the restaurant site or using the pickup option through the food delivery apps. Restuarants often already either have a rack or a setup for delivery orders.
jerojero 4y ago
When I visited the US I was surprised at the ubiquitous tiping culture. Here in Australia we don't even need to tip in restaurants. You order your food, you pay the price, and you go home. Servers are nice because that's part of their job and they are being paid to do that.
- esarbe 4y ago
  That's how it should be. There's no reason the server's service should not be covered by a reasonable salary that doesn't depend on tips.
- nelgaard 4y ago
  The same here in Europe. But they are getting US-style terminals and software here. Sometimes waiters get a little embarrassed about it and tell you to just put in a zero amount. Sometimes they even put in zero themselves before handing you the terminal. Tipping does happen, but "suggestions" for a specific amount or percentage seems wrong. Then you might as well include it in the price, which is what we have been doing since 1969.
  - 31337Logic 4y ago
    Don't get pressured/suckered into making the same mistake we did.
gamblor956 4y ago
Note: in California, tipped staff receive minimum wage (or higher) before accounting for tips, so any tips they receive is in addition to their normal pay. This is not the case in most of the U.S., where tips relieve the business of part of their obligation to pay wages.
- seanmcdirmid 4y ago
  This was true in WA before it was true in CA. All west coast states (including Alaska) do not allow tips to go towards minimum wage. Throw in Minnesota, Montana, Nevada as the other states that do this.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
propogandist 4y ago
Shopify appears to be integrating a tipping feature into checkouts. They even have the same % breakouts as the POS terminals. It's unclear why any sane person want to contribute tips to an online merchant who hasn't even fulfilled an order?! There's also this new IRS program going after the service economy that's reliant on tips https://www.irs.gov/newsroom/irs-introduces-new-service-industry-tip-reporting-program https://www.irs.gov/newsroom/irs-introduces-new-service-indu...
tpoacher 4y ago
The latest trick I've started seeing in the UK is tacking an extra "12.5% optional service charge" item on your bill. "optional" as in, you have the right to "opt out" by embarassing yourself in public for not wantinf to pay your stated bill. 12.5% is NOT a small amount, especially when you've already paid ridiculous amounts for things that would have been far cheaper (or free) otherwise, like water! UK wasn't even a tipping culture until very recently (at least not in the "below minimum wage" sense the US is).

69 points by 27153 4y ago

I tip and it is usually the norm of 10% - it is a physically demanding minimum wage job and they deserve it just need to get my order right, maybe offer alternatives, leave me in peace to eat and not spit in my food.

esarbe 4y ago

Tipping is a way for cheap employers to skimp on the pay. It's a horrible practice and it needs to die. You were happy with the food and have the service a tip? What about the cooks and the other people involved making sure you got an enjoyable experience? They don't get anything. The pretty girl? She gets triple the tips the older guy gets, despite being equally friendly and humorous and polite. Just pay those people a decent salary already.

black_13 4y ago

[dead]

blippage 4y ago

Brit here. I view tipping as dishonest. It's a trick to make something seem cheaper than it is. They're your employees, you pay them. Don't expect me to be a charity. Give me the cost up-front. If I decide it's too much, then I should take my business elsewhere. "That's the price, cough up or piss off." Be honest and straight-forward in your dealings.

variadix 4y ago

The Starbucks near me recently switched from taking your card at the drive thru to holding a card reader out the window which asks for a tip. It seems kind of absurd to ask someone to fill out the tip amount with one hand from their car.

hakfoo 4y ago

I went to buy some specific keyboard switches last night. Ended up using one of the myriad small random vendors that the industry is full of, clearly on a Shopify cart. The checkout process had a tip button. For physical goods that will arrive in my mailbox in several weeks. Skippable and 1 to 3 percent, but still, this completely undemines any model of how a purchase transaction works to me.

not_me_ever 4y ago

Quick tip: If you can't afford to eat out -> learn to cook.

tabtab 4y ago

Minor tipping is a good thing in that it's a way to give feedback and create incentive. The problem is that the expected amount is too high. A full-service restaurant expects around 15%, but a sandwich shop should expect more like 5%. Tipping should also be done after the service is rendered, not before. Otherwise, it has no feedback value.

mindslight 4y ago
A sandwich shop is selling you an item for a price. Handing you the item you bought isn't rendering a service, and so there's nothing to tip for. The idea of tips as feedback is fallacious - a server doesn't know if a 15% vs 20% tip is due to their performance or just the person tipping. And the service has to be really bad to leave no tip at all (and even then, there are plenty of people who do this regardless of service). Furthermore, especially with a to go order, customers won't even see their orders until they get to where they're going and unpack. The real incentive/feedback in the restaurant industry is whether customers come back. The answer to the larger topic is just say no to attempts to expand the terrible practice - the original Uber had it right. And stop making excuses for not paying attention to dark patterned UIs, like being perpetually "in a rush" or worried about the people behind you in line. Take some responsibility for knowing how much your order should cost, so you notice when the big number disagrees.
peoplearepeople 4y ago
It's a terrible thing. Just set the price and be done with it.
- edmundsauto 4y ago
  At least with tips, I’m reasonably confident the staff are getting it.

kgc 4y ago

Service seems to be better in places that don’t accept tips. Maybe the business should be responsible for maintaining a level of service, not individual customers.

esarbe 4y ago
That sounds like a reasonable assumption.

boh 4y ago

I think it's justifiable to tip for service but if you're just picking something up, it's retail, and that's not something you should be tipping for. The writer should've choose a custom tip of $0.

RealPlastic 4y ago

I simply do not return to a restaurant where the server holds the POS screen in front of you at the table for all to see. Usually the tip is pre-selected for something like 25%. Clicking "custom" and choosing a different amount is intended to make you feel embarrassed. Another place is counter service. They want a tip right after you order and are paying. Haven't even tried the food. No idea how the service is going to be.....and you want a tip....based on what? These places will not see me again.

justinclift 4y ago
Can you type in a negative amount? :D
thatguy0900 4y ago
An easier solution is just to not care about the opinion of random people you'll never meet again in a shop. I still pay 10-15% in traditional tipping settings, and nothing elsewhere. It doesn't bother me at all if anyone thinks that is too low.
thunky 4y ago
I had this reaction too, but then I heard a NPR segment where the interviewee mentioned that often times counter tip money doesn't go to the workers. So it's basically just the business asking you for more money than the posted price. After hearing that it became easier to not leave a tip at the cash register. I think that's better for all involved than avoiding these businesses.
- seanmcdirmid 4y ago
  I don't think that is legal in many US states. It is clearly not allowed in my state: https://www.lni.wa.gov/workers-rights/wages/tips-and-service-charges https://www.lni.wa.gov/workers-rights/wages/tips-and-service...
  - thunky 4y ago
    Interesting, are you seeing an explosion of counter tip prompts there?

sublinear 4y ago

I only tip bartenders, delivery people, and waiters at actual sit-down restaurants after the check arrives. Everyone else gets 0. I don't think I've ever had any friction about this. Sounds like social anxiety.

Gigachad 4y ago
I don’t see what the problem is. It’s not mandatory, you can literally just tip 0 for everything.

jfengel 4y ago

I was happy to tip, even for counter service, during the pandemic. I think it sucks that people were out literally risking their lives to give me a cup of coffee and a sandwich. "Essential" personnel have long been underpaid. The pandemic made that more obvious. I would rather that they get a decent salary, and set prices accordingly, but I can at least show my gratitude for the genuine risk they're taking. Now that the pandemic is over, of course the store owners don't want to reverse the ratchet. They've had a hard time keeping staff, because they're fed up, and they're hoping to raise prices without raising prices. I know that tipping is controversial even among tipped staff. For many the net result is well above minimum wage, and they'd take an effective cut if we paid them $15/hour. Places that experiment with eliminating tipping often give up, in part because customers are bad at math and will go to places that are "cheaper" on the menu. It's just a bad situation. It's clear that the lack of tipping in Europe does not create bad service, but there doesn't seem to be any way to that point from here.

31337Logic 4y ago
> I was happy to tip, even for counter service, during the pandemic. I think it sucks that people were out literally risking their lives to give me a cup of coffee and a sandwich. And you were out, also, literally risking your life to pay for it. That argument goes both ways so shouldn't be seen as the sole/primary reason to tip.
- adammarples 4y ago
  Yes but the server came into contact with 500 people that day, for minimum wage. We came into contact with just one, got a cup of coffee out of it and then went to WFH on tech money.
  - zaphirplane 4y ago
    The STD ads tell us otherwise
Gigachad 4y ago
If the average person starts tipping less or nothing, the workers will all go to the businesses with higher base prices and wages. It won’t matter if the other store has lower printed prices because they won’t have anyone working the business.

hkatx 4y ago

Similar to another user, I tend to visit the places less often that have the tip terminal. It happened more subconsciously. Nearly every coffee place does get ruled out except establishments like starbucks. Even corporate chains have a tip menu, last I encountered was during thanksgiving day and I was happy to tip that day since holidays. But moving on, I order using order ahead feature. The tip menu is there but its a software UI with no barista standing behind. After reading the article, I realized even for picking food up I end up using the restaurant site or using the pickup option through the food delivery apps. Restuarants often already either have a rack or a setup for delivery orders.

jerojero 4y ago

When I visited the US I was surprised at the ubiquitous tiping culture. Here in Australia we don't even need to tip in restaurants. You order your food, you pay the price, and you go home. Servers are nice because that's part of their job and they are being paid to do that.

esarbe 4y ago
That's how it should be. There's no reason the server's service should not be covered by a reasonable salary that doesn't depend on tips.
nelgaard 4y ago
The same here in Europe. But they are getting US-style terminals and software here. Sometimes waiters get a little embarrassed about it and tell you to just put in a zero amount. Sometimes they even put in zero themselves before handing you the terminal. Tipping does happen, but "suggestions" for a specific amount or percentage seems wrong. Then you might as well include it in the price, which is what we have been doing since 1969.
- 31337Logic 4y ago
  Don't get pressured/suckered into making the same mistake we did.

gamblor956 4y ago

Note: in California, tipped staff receive minimum wage (or higher) before accounting for tips, so any tips they receive is in addition to their normal pay. This is not the case in most of the U.S., where tips relieve the business of part of their obligation to pay wages.

seanmcdirmid 4y ago
This was true in WA before it was true in CA. All west coast states (including Alaska) do not allow tips to go towards minimum wage. Throw in Minnesota, Montana, Nevada as the other states that do this.

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

propogandist 4y ago

Shopify appears to be integrating a tipping feature into checkouts. They even have the same % breakouts as the POS terminals. It's unclear why any sane person want to contribute tips to an online merchant who hasn't even fulfilled an order?! There's also this new IRS program going after the service economy that's reliant on tips https://www.irs.gov/newsroom/irs-introduces-new-service-industry-tip-reporting-program https://www.irs.gov/newsroom/irs-introduces-new-service-indu...

tpoacher 4y ago

The latest trick I've started seeing in the UK is tacking an extra "12.5% optional service charge" item on your bill. "optional" as in, you have the right to "opt out" by embarassing yourself in public for not wantinf to pay your stated bill. 12.5% is NOT a small amount, especially when you've already paid ridiculous amounts for things that would have been far cheaper (or free) otherwise, like water! UK wasn't even a tipping culture until very recently (at least not in the "below minimum wage" sense the US is).