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The cynical answer to that question is ”you don’t need to be in the office to do your work, but your manager does need you in the office to do his work”.

by fwlr 4y ago

qikInNdOutReply 4y ago
Me sitting in the office, because ordered to be there, while all my managers are remote, wondering slightly what is going on..
- toyg 4y ago
  "Doing their job" involves maintaining a feeling of power over you. You acquiescing to their arbitrary requests satisfies that.
- ChuckNorris89 4y ago
  Yeah, same. Just left a company where all the guys in the trenches were mandated in the office, but the management was allowed to work from anywhere. Assholes.
- teekert 4y ago
  It may feel like an order (That's an order ensign!), but it's a request, you can say no, they can fire you or grant you your wish, you can leave or grant them their wish. But agreed, it's really shitty and I wish nobody would be in a situation where they feel like they are effectively ordered. I feel it's a result of your country's (US or India, right?) lack of unions and employee protecting labor laws.
- javcasas 4y ago
  You know perfectly what's going on. They are management (upper caste), you are worker (lower class), hence you _deserve_ suffering. Next life, be born upper management you filthy lowcaste.
- vmlinuz 4y ago
  That's exactly what happened to me during lockdown - hired at a bank on a fixed-term contract, purely by phone interview. When I started, they required me to work on-site because I wasn't permanent staff and therefore had to be supervised, except my manager wasn't on-site and I was there for over 2 months before meeting him in person - they were actually quite strict about separation because they were worried about the operational risk of an office outbreak. It wasn't until I broke my toe and was told by the doctor to minimise my walking they they allowed me to (technically temporarily) work from home...
  - mcv 4y ago
    This is completely the opposite of my experience. Most developers work from home, but managers are more likely to be in the office because their job is meeting lots of people.
skrebbel 4y ago
Unless you believe managers don’t do useful work, that doesn’t even strike me as a very cynical take. I disagree with it though, I manage a distributed team and I can do my work fine without the team being in the office. I think the serendipity arguments for on-site are much stronger than “manager doesn't trust team member to be productive on their own” which the entire world discovered was bullshit during the corona lockdowns. The serendipity thing is real. We have less of it. We have many other benefits and we think it’s worth it, but to think remote doesn’t have downsides is a bit short sighted IMO.
- tluyben2 4y ago
  Many managers are not very good and mostly believe managing means flogging the herd to work harder; that’s not really possible remotely.
  - senttoschool 4y ago
    Many individual contributors are not very good and mostly overrate their own ability to be productive while working from home.
    - Agentlien 4y ago
      I'm sceptical towards this. I know my own productivity has measurably improved since I started working from home - mainly from the calmer work environment and lack of distractions. When performing recent post-mortems it also became clear that when the whole studio was unexpectedly forced to work remotely, productivity overall slightly increased despite some initial concerns about adapting our workflows and communication channels.
      - kitsunesoba 4y ago
        > I'm sceptical towards this. I know my own productivity has measurably improved since I started working from home - mainly from the calmer work environment and lack of distractions. Also, no need to sit there staring at the screen trying to look like you’re doing something useful after your brain has hit its limit on contiguous productive hours. You can instead get up and go do chores or go on a walk or something, give your head some breathing room, and then come back with something of a second wind in your sails which carries you through the end of the work day.
happymellon 4y ago
They spent a lot of time being away from the office before 2020 though.
Lolaccount 4y ago
100% this. They need you around to fall back on. Honestly, this is at least 75% of the reason behind the pushback on Remote.

The cynical answer to that question is ”you don’t need to be in the office to do your work, but your manager does need you in the office to do his work”.

by fwlr 4y ago

The cynical answer to that question is ”you don’t need to be in the office to do your work, but your manager does need you in the office to do his work”.

qikInNdOutReply 4y ago

Me sitting in the office, because ordered to be there, while all my managers are remote, wondering slightly what is going on..

toyg 4y ago
"Doing their job" involves maintaining a feeling of power over you. You acquiescing to their arbitrary requests satisfies that.
ChuckNorris89 4y ago
Yeah, same. Just left a company where all the guys in the trenches were mandated in the office, but the management was allowed to work from anywhere. Assholes.
teekert 4y ago
It may feel like an order (That's an order ensign!), but it's a request, you can say no, they can fire you or grant you your wish, you can leave or grant them their wish. But agreed, it's really shitty and I wish nobody would be in a situation where they feel like they are effectively ordered. I feel it's a result of your country's (US or India, right?) lack of unions and employee protecting labor laws.
javcasas 4y ago
You know perfectly what's going on. They are management (upper caste), you are worker (lower class), hence you _deserve_ suffering. Next life, be born upper management you filthy lowcaste.
vmlinuz 4y ago
That's exactly what happened to me during lockdown - hired at a bank on a fixed-term contract, purely by phone interview. When I started, they required me to work on-site because I wasn't permanent staff and therefore had to be supervised, except my manager wasn't on-site and I was there for over 2 months before meeting him in person - they were actually quite strict about separation because they were worried about the operational risk of an office outbreak. It wasn't until I broke my toe and was told by the doctor to minimise my walking they they allowed me to (technically temporarily) work from home...
- mcv 4y ago
  This is completely the opposite of my experience. Most developers work from home, but managers are more likely to be in the office because their job is meeting lots of people.

skrebbel 4y ago

Unless you believe managers don’t do useful work, that doesn’t even strike me as a very cynical take. I disagree with it though, I manage a distributed team and I can do my work fine without the team being in the office. I think the serendipity arguments for on-site are much stronger than “manager doesn't trust team member to be productive on their own” which the entire world discovered was bullshit during the corona lockdowns. The serendipity thing is real. We have less of it. We have many other benefits and we think it’s worth it, but to think remote doesn’t have downsides is a bit short sighted IMO.

tluyben2 4y ago
Many managers are not very good and mostly believe managing means flogging the herd to work harder; that’s not really possible remotely.
- senttoschool 4y ago
  Many individual contributors are not very good and mostly overrate their own ability to be productive while working from home.
  - Agentlien 4y ago
    I'm sceptical towards this. I know my own productivity has measurably improved since I started working from home - mainly from the calmer work environment and lack of distractions. When performing recent post-mortems it also became clear that when the whole studio was unexpectedly forced to work remotely, productivity overall slightly increased despite some initial concerns about adapting our workflows and communication channels.
    - kitsunesoba 4y ago
      > I'm sceptical towards this. I know my own productivity has measurably improved since I started working from home - mainly from the calmer work environment and lack of distractions. Also, no need to sit there staring at the screen trying to look like you’re doing something useful after your brain has hit its limit on contiguous productive hours. You can instead get up and go do chores or go on a walk or something, give your head some breathing room, and then come back with something of a second wind in your sails which carries you through the end of the work day.

happymellon 4y ago

They spent a lot of time being away from the office before 2020 though.

Lolaccount 4y ago

100% this. They need you around to fall back on. Honestly, this is at least 75% of the reason behind the pushback on Remote.