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Yes, there are absolutely dangers. It shouldn't be possible for a depressed person to convince a chatbot to tell them to commit suicide. There are some people w

Yes, there are absolutely dangers. It shouldn't be possible for a depressed person to convince a chatbot to tell them to commit suicide. There are some people who only need the tiniest push on a bad day.

gooob 4y ago
by that logic. every single song or work of art should go through a filtration process before being distributed. we shouldn't ruin the capabilities of a tool just because some minority of people would use it to justify undesirable actions.
nhchris 4y ago
By that logic they shouldn't visit the Grand Canyon either, because their echo might say something mean. It's the logic of banning sad songs from the radio. "Tiniest pushes" are omnipresent, calling them "dangerous" stretches that word to meaninglessness.
- Spivak 4y ago
  Some pushes are different than others. https://www.nimh.nih.gov/news/science-news/2019/release-of-13-reasons-why-associated-with-increase-in-youth-suicide-rates https://www.nimh.nih.gov/news/science-news/2019/release-of-1...
plsbenice34 4y ago
As someone who used to be close to suicide for a several years and communicated with many other suicidal people, I feel very confident saying this: being unable to play with a chatbot in the way I want, being actively censored because of suicidality, being prevented from engaging in art or exploration of ideas relating to suicide, etc., has a strong and exactly opposite effect that what you presume. Social media is full of similar censorship under the false guise of protecting suicidal people but it just isolates them in a sickening way. Seeing ""Open""AI turn into this is frankly depressing and dystopian as hell
- space_fountain 4y ago
  Isn’t there relatively good science that shows that highlight suicide are associated with spikes in suicide?
  - simonw 4y ago
    It's widely understood in journalism that stories about suicide need to be approached very carefully to avoid the risk of inspiring copycat attempts. https://ethics.journalism.wisc.edu/2018/10/04/a-guide-to-responsible-reporting-on-suicide/ https://ethics.journalism.wisc.edu/2018/10/04/a-guide-to-res... "More than 50 international studies have found that certain types of media coverage can increase the likelihood of suicide for some individuals."
- tpxl 4y ago
  >""Open""AI OpenAI was never open. It's named that to invoke good feelings, not because there's any meaningful 'openness' to their work.
  - astrange 4y ago
    They released CLIP and they release papers/descriptions of their work for all their other products, enough for people to reproduce them. That's quite open.
    - tpxl 4y ago
      Apple, nVidia, Microsoft, Intel, ... release plenty of papers and we don't call them open.
- Arkhaine_kupo 4y ago
  This argument is all wrong. 1) Because science has proven time and time again the opposite. Suicide has a contagious component, so reducing access to it reduces overall numbers 2) Because your argument ignores all the cases where people could have been saved by rules like the ones social media implements. Basically if twitter didn't have those rules and you felt less isolated but 1 more person went ahead and did it. You would call that a success because there is no feedback form the victims side but there is from yours and your perceived social conection. Suicidal people need help, tools, close human connections, and a society that is less alienating. All of those things are achieveable without removing the solutions we introduce to make an AI less prone to give advice on how to off yourself if asked.
Teever 4y ago
Why shouldn't that be possible? Like let's run with that idea, do you believe that it should not be possible for a depressed person to use any tool to commit suicide? As in, we need to redesign every single thing that we use to prevent it being misused for suicide? Or just the new things? Why only the new things like a chat bot?
im3w1l 4y ago
Why on earth would this depressed person use prompt injections to force the bot to give bad advice though?
- wnkrshm 4y ago
  In many countries websites describing ways to commit suicide or some people's public 'goodbye letters' explaining their reasons for suicide are removed by law enforcement, when they are discovered. Since you can ask ChatGPT what the most painless and direct way to kill yourself is, should chatGPT be able to assist you in planning your suicide? (Edit: i.e. having a chat partner that directly gives you feedback on ideas and does not try to talk you down/away from them) While suicide isn't illegal, in many countries helping someone commit suicide is a capital crime.

gooob 4y ago

by that logic. every single song or work of art should go through a filtration process before being distributed. we shouldn't ruin the capabilities of a tool just because some minority of people would use it to justify undesirable actions.

nhchris 4y ago

By that logic they shouldn't visit the Grand Canyon either, because their echo might say something mean. It's the logic of banning sad songs from the radio. "Tiniest pushes" are omnipresent, calling them "dangerous" stretches that word to meaninglessness.

Spivak 4y ago
Some pushes are different than others. https://www.nimh.nih.gov/news/science-news/2019/release-of-13-reasons-why-associated-with-increase-in-youth-suicide-rates https://www.nimh.nih.gov/news/science-news/2019/release-of-1...

plsbenice34 4y ago

As someone who used to be close to suicide for a several years and communicated with many other suicidal people, I feel very confident saying this: being unable to play with a chatbot in the way I want, being actively censored because of suicidality, being prevented from engaging in art or exploration of ideas relating to suicide, etc., has a strong and exactly opposite effect that what you presume. Social media is full of similar censorship under the false guise of protecting suicidal people but it just isolates them in a sickening way. Seeing ""Open""AI turn into this is frankly depressing and dystopian as hell

space_fountain 4y ago
Isn’t there relatively good science that shows that highlight suicide are associated with spikes in suicide?
- simonw 4y ago
  It's widely understood in journalism that stories about suicide need to be approached very carefully to avoid the risk of inspiring copycat attempts. https://ethics.journalism.wisc.edu/2018/10/04/a-guide-to-responsible-reporting-on-suicide/ https://ethics.journalism.wisc.edu/2018/10/04/a-guide-to-res... "More than 50 international studies have found that certain types of media coverage can increase the likelihood of suicide for some individuals."
tpxl 4y ago
>""Open""AI OpenAI was never open. It's named that to invoke good feelings, not because there's any meaningful 'openness' to their work.
- astrange 4y ago
  They released CLIP and they release papers/descriptions of their work for all their other products, enough for people to reproduce them. That's quite open.
  - tpxl 4y ago
    Apple, nVidia, Microsoft, Intel, ... release plenty of papers and we don't call them open.
Arkhaine_kupo 4y ago
This argument is all wrong. 1) Because science has proven time and time again the opposite. Suicide has a contagious component, so reducing access to it reduces overall numbers 2) Because your argument ignores all the cases where people could have been saved by rules like the ones social media implements. Basically if twitter didn't have those rules and you felt less isolated but 1 more person went ahead and did it. You would call that a success because there is no feedback form the victims side but there is from yours and your perceived social conection. Suicidal people need help, tools, close human connections, and a society that is less alienating. All of those things are achieveable without removing the solutions we introduce to make an AI less prone to give advice on how to off yourself if asked.

Teever 4y ago

Why shouldn't that be possible? Like let's run with that idea, do you believe that it should not be possible for a depressed person to use any tool to commit suicide? As in, we need to redesign every single thing that we use to prevent it being misused for suicide? Or just the new things? Why only the new things like a chat bot?

im3w1l 4y ago

Why on earth would this depressed person use prompt injections to force the bot to give bad advice though?

wnkrshm 4y ago
In many countries websites describing ways to commit suicide or some people's public 'goodbye letters' explaining their reasons for suicide are removed by law enforcement, when they are discovered. Since you can ask ChatGPT what the most painless and direct way to kill yourself is, should chatGPT be able to assist you in planning your suicide? (Edit: i.e. having a chat partner that directly gives you feedback on ideas and does not try to talk you down/away from them) While suicide isn't illegal, in many countries helping someone commit suicide is a capital crime.