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Since the vaccines didn’t stop transmission, can’t the same be said of them?
by nostromo 4y ago
Since the vaccines didn’t stop transmission, can’t the same be said of them?
- loeg 4y agoMajolnurnur's primary mechanism of action is deliberately causing viral mutations, with the aim of preventing successful replication. This is somewhat different from chance mutations in vivo.
- defrost 4y agoIn the same way that seatbelts don't stop deaths from motor vehicle accidents but do significantly reduce them, vaccines don't stop transmission but they do significantly reduce the transmission rates. Similar statistical model as control rods in a nuclear reactor - they don't stop neutrons, they significantly reduce the numbe of free neutrons flying about and avoid an exponential increase and runaway chain reaction.
- ifyoubuildit 4y agoAccording to the cdc: > Seat belts reduce serious crash-related injuries and deaths by about half Do you have some evidence that the vaccines are in that ballpark against infection/transmission in 2023?
- benjaminwootton 4y agoIn the highly unlikely case that they did reduce transmission by 50%, people would still catch the same mild disease, it would just slow transmission. So that argument has a time limit which is way less than the 3 years we’ve been playing this game. And even if it was 99% effective, it certainly doesn’t justify leaving drugs in the market where one mutation potentially has humanity ending consequences. The Covid vaccine was great for helping the elderley and vulnerable from day one. For the rest of us, it was a busted flush.
- busymom0 4y agoNo they do not reduce transmission. That was clear when delta hit, they found same viral loads in vaxxed and unvaxxed even if mild symptoms. And a vax which merely reduced symptoms gives a false sense of safety where they end up becoming silent spreaders of the virus. This happened here in Ontario where during delta, an over 50s hockey league had an outbreak where 15 fully vaxxed got infected, 1 elderly died and then their family wondered how this happened. Similar thing happened in Manitoba where 80% of an elderly long term care facility got infected despite everyone being fully vaxxed. Comparing a seat belt to a permanent medical procedure inside the body is asinine. Seat belts don’t go inside the body, can be taken off, don’t need a new belt on top of old one every few months, get recalled if defective, manufacturer can be sued, belts don’t cause blood clot or heart inflammation.
- brookst 4y agoDo you also oppose the polio vaccine because it merely reduces the odds of infection? And every other vaccine for the same reason? There is not a vaccine in the world that provides 100% protection to every individual. ALL vaccines work by reducing R0 to <1 so outbreaks shrink rather than growing. I can’t believe we’re still doing the nutty antivax thing in 2023.
- eldenwrong 4y agoUh most vaccines did offer pretty good immunity and an extreme reduction in transmission They are not in the same category at all
- nostromo 4y agoTwo things can be true… Vaccines are typically very effective. So effective they can eliminate a virus among vaccinated populations. Covid-19 vaccines are sorta effective. They didn’t eliminate virus transmission among vaccinated populations. But they reduced the severity of cases. Pretending the vaccines weren’t underwhelming in terms of efficacy doesn’t do us any favors, because people know from their own experience that most vaccinated people have had Covid.
- option 4y agoWe need high quality studies by multiple reputable organizations to research this question. Odds of this happening/getting funded - close to 0 right now.
- guelo 4y agoVaccines do reduce transmission. From studies I've seen VE against transmission is around 60-80%, though it wanes quickly after 4 months. Not as good as 95% VE against hospitalization but not nothing either.
- yucky 4y agoThe FDA says there isn't enough evidence to say that the vaccines reduce transmission:[1] > "While it is hoped this will be the case, the scientific community does not yet know if the Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19 Vaccine will reduce such transmission." [1] https://www.fda.gov/emergency-preparedness-and-response/coronavirus-disease-2019-covid-19/pfizer-biontech-covid-19-vaccine-frequently-asked-questions https://www.fda.gov/emergency-preparedness-and-response/coro...
- amrocha 4y agoThe FDA and CDC are slow. They didn't admit for months that covid is airborne, way after it was well established. It's obvious looking at the data that vaccines reduce transmission.
- yucky 4y ago> It's obvious looking at the data that vaccines reduce transmission. Really? I don't think I know a single person who got vaccinated and didn't get COVID again, several times in some cases.
- eldenwrong 4y agoYes but it would have been much worse without the vaccine
- TEP_Kim_Il_Sung 4y agoMy aunt died of covid. Luckily she was vaccinated and triple-boostered, or it could have been worse.
- TeeMassive 4y agoThe Delta variant did begin in an Indian village where vaccines were first being rolled out.
- bonzini 4y agoLOL no, it began in October 2020 which is three months before were rolled out at all, let alone in India.
- TeeMassive 4y agoVaccines in India were under phase III trials in September 2020: https://www.universityworldnews.com/post.php?story=20200926095342662 https://www.universityworldnews.com/post.php?story=202009260...
- seydor 4y agoas long as vaccines are optional it should be fine. But calling them vaccines is an overstatement
- mrtesthah 4y agoOxford dictionary defines vaccines as “substance[s] used to stimulate immunity to a particular infectious disease or pathogen”. So yes, covid vaccines do that.
- miles 4y agoThe CDC changed the definition of "vaccine", since, unlike previous vaccines, the COVID-19 vaccine did not produce immunity: Yes, the CDC changed its definition of vaccine to be 'more transparent' https://www.king5.com/article/news/verify/coronavirus-verify/cdc-changed-vaccine-definition-more-transparent/536-03ce7891-2604-4090-b548-b1618d286834 https://www.king5.com/article/news/verify/coronavirus-verify... > [T]he CDC changed its definition of vaccine from "a product that stimulates a person's immune system to produce immunity to a specific disease, protecting the person from that disease" to "a preparation that is used to stimulate the body's immune response against diseases."
- mrtesthah 4y agoBy your standard, if the covid vaccine doesn’t produce immunity then the flu vaccine doesn’t, either.
- puffoflogic 4y agoNow you're getting it.
- mrtesthah 4y agoNo, I’m not. The semantic difference you insist upon is pointless. The mechanism of a flu or covid shot is exactly the same as any other vaccine; the only difference is the degree of efficacy due to human mucosal immunity not having evolved to fully block infection from respiratory viruses. https://journals.plos.org/plospathogens/article?id=10.1371/journal.ppat.1009509 https://journals.plos.org/plospathogens/article?id=10.1371/j...
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- kzrdude 4y agoVaccines protect the vaccinated by having a much less severe illness, if they get sick. That might be worth it already.
- TEP_Kim_Il_Sung 4y ago[flagged]
- kzrdude 4y agoHelp her get vaccinated
- mrtesthah 4y agoThey will reduce transmission by allowing your immune system to react faster to known foreign antigens. (And of course, so will a previous infection.) Note the subtle difference between relative and absolute. Biology is not black and white.
- foxyv 4y agoPrevent, no. Reduce, yes!
- tinus_hn 4y agoYou will not. Depending on how cynical you are, that was either a honest mistake because it was incorrectly thought the vaccines did prevent transmission, or just a made up false narrative pushed to promote vaccinations. The only effect there is is the meager excuse that you could protect grandma because the temporary protection from severe illness might be saving medical resources she needs. But if you look into the numbers, you’ll see that for the not elderly without preexisting conditions, chances of severe illness are very low anyway.