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Windows 10 is going to be my last windows with how MS is acting. 10 was annoying enough to configure to disable so much cruft, get back a decent startbar, disa

Windows 10 is going to be my last windows with how MS is acting. 10 was annoying enough to configure to disable so much cruft, get back a decent startbar, disable all the telemetry etc, and much of it still sucks like not being able to have control over updates. 11 with forcing an account, forcing updates, stupid shit like nerfing the taskbar etc...there is just no need for it anymore. Games run fine on Linux via proton, or the ones I want to play at least. The rest of my toolchain and app library is all opensource stuff that runs on *nix. NetBSD or Void Linux with a custom configured AwesomeWM setup here I come.

barbariangrunge 4y ago
As a game developer, I’m stuck with windows for the foreseeable future. The major game engines technically work on Linux but the experience isn’t smooth and the companies don’t want to invest in improving it If they did, I’d switch back to Linux so fast— I actually really like gnome and miss the interface. It’s a dream for people who never want to touch their mice
- Zardoz84 4y ago
  Godot
  - isthiseasymode 4y ago
    I believe they mean that the user base is mostly on windows. All of the major game engines already work with Linux and even MacOS. If they want to make money, they need to develop and test on windows.
    - dontlaugh 4y ago
      The tooling doesn’t work on anything other than Windows, for both Unreal and Unity.
      - deleted 4y ago
        [deleted]
      - isthiseasymode 4y ago
        I write Unity games on my Mac. What do you mean?
- Zurrrrr 4y ago
  As a game developer I can see how you would be tied. I'm pretty lucky in that my gaming sticks to a few specific games for multiplayer (GTA online, counter-strike, sometimes red alert 2, nrs games) an a few specific AAA titles I want to play for campaigns. Gnome is pretty nice...I never understood why KDE was so popular with their childish naming scheme and some of the bloat that came in 4. Awesome was a gamechanger for me though, when I realized how easy it was to have a perfect gui, every little details perfectly to my specificaions.
  - AnIdiotOnTheNet 4y ago
    > I never understood why KDE was so popular with their childish naming scheme and some of the bloat that came in 4 And I could never understand why GNOME is so popular with its desire to be a tablet interface and complete disdain for the very concept of user customization.
    - vetinari 4y ago
      I don't get why people think GNOME has a desire to be a tablet interface. It has not. It is just repeated ad nauseam by people, who never used it. Sure, it sucks at 14" 1376x768 displays, but 14" 1600x900 or fullhd -- you know, what you could find a poweruser using? It's perfect, without having 125% scale or whatever.
      - thaumasiotes 4y ago
        > I don't get why people think GNOME has a desire to be a tablet interface. That seems obvious. Because GNOME threw away GNOME 2, which people liked, and decided GNOME 3 would be a copy of Unity, which was supposed to be a tablet interface, and which distinguished itself only in being terrible?
        vetinari 4y ago
        It's incorrect then, on several fronts. Unity was supposed to be netbook interface, not a tablet one. Tablets (as we know them today, not tablet pc, which sucked) were not yet a thing then. Gnome 3 decided not to be a clone of Unity, but not to be a clone of Windows 95. If you want a Windows 95 clone, you have a wide range of offers. If you do not want that, the choice was much worse. Gnome 3 improved that for those, who didn't want Windows 95 clone. Incidentally, the only people who think Gnome 3 is terrible are those, who cannot let Windows 95 concepts go. Everything that is different, is going to be terrible, simply by the virtue of being different.
- klipklop 4y ago
  I do 99% of my PC gaming with a Steam Deck. All the major games I am interested in "just work." If Elden Ring and most/all of my fav indie games work, I don't see why I will need a windows PC ever in the near future. I was able to get several non-steam games from the early 2000's working as well with Proton. Likely if more games are built against/for dxvk/proton things will get even easier.
- josephcsible 4y ago
  > The major game engines technically work on Linux but the experience isn’t smooth That hasn't been my experience. In recent times, I've always had one of these two things happen: 1. The game runs just as good or better on Linux than it does on Windows 2. The game can't be played at all on Linux, because of the DRM, anti-cheat, or anti-tamper
  - empyrrhicist 4y ago
    I've had weird crashes - just frequent enough to dissuade me.
  - capableweb 4y ago
    As a game consumer, Linux works well enough for 99% of the cases. As a game producer, the editors and engines might work, but it's missing a lot of polish and it's kind of a frustrating experience. I think you missed the first "As a game developer" part message of the comment you replied to, they are speaking about developing games, not playing them.
    - Karunamon 4y ago
      The 1% of cases you mentioned is an extremely impactful lot; usually multiplayer and esports titles with broad appeal and massive player bases. Platform compatibility is a quality, not quantity problem. If the one game someone wants to play most doesn't work, they're not going to switch.
      - capableweb 4y ago
        > If the one game someone wants to play most doesn't work, they're not going to switch. People keep saying this but more and more people are using Linux for gaming and the Steam Deck sells very well + receives a lot of praise. How could that be if what you are saying is true?
        Karunamon 4y ago
        People don't care by and large that the steam deck runs on Linux, they care that a trusted company (probably the single most trusted company in gaming) released a hardware gaming device. If valve had put the same effort into the same hardware but made it Windows centric, most of its problems would go away. They just have very good reasons for trying to break away that platform. I used the word "switch" rather than "use" on purpose. Nobody with a steam deck is using it as their primary computer or gaming device. Nobody is going to at least until the biggest stuff out there runs on it
- smeagull 4y ago
  I'm just annoyed how few games release for Mac. I have a nice M1 all paid for me, but I can't game on it like I can my linux laptop - except that one has integrated graphics. My backlog of unplayed (and yet to be bought) AAA games now encompasses most of 5 years at this point.
AnIdiotOnTheNet 4y ago
If the VR story on Linux was even remotely palatable to me I'd have already switched. If some games I want don't work, that's a sacrifice I'm willing to make. As it is, I'm with you on 10 almost certainly being my last Windows.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
t0bia_s 4y ago
As someone who use Adobe profesionally, I cannot leave Windows. It frustrate me.
- Zurrrrr 4y ago
  If you own your device, no reason you HAVE to be tied to Adobe, it's just about compromise.
- smeagull 4y ago
  Well if you're using Adobe, then you don't care about telemetry or spyware, so it's not a problem.
  - BizarreByte 4y ago
    I don’t think that’s fair to say that if one is using it professionally. If it puts food on the table you just have to grin and bear the things you don’t like. It’s not realistic to give up a tool that makes you money over personal feelings about telemetry and the like.
    - exodust 4y ago
      It's not about giving up a tool, it's about swapping it for a different tool. Creating a "food on table" dependency with Adobe is what's unrealistic.
      - t0bia_s 4y ago
        I'm profesionall freelance artist, with daily usages of Photoshop, Illustrator, InDesign, Premiere, After Effects, Audition and Lightroom. Yes, it literally brings food to my family on table. No, there is no competition if you need compatible project between different programs (dynamic link). After Effects don't have alternative at all. No, Adobe wont work on linux. MacOS is not alternative for Win in term of privacy. And usually overpriced if you need power.
        4y ago
user3939382 4y ago
+10 on NetBSD. Great quality code and really friendly community that I've been interacting with here and there for many years.
- Zurrrrr 4y ago
  Yeah it's drawn my interest for a while now. I think it has a lot of interesting security features that look fun to explore, and there is some functionality I would like to try porting to it also. Otherwise it's void if I can get it working. I use to run Slackware but not a fan of them trying to compete with Ubuntu. Not a fan of rolling release (as fantastic as Arch is) or source based, so for minimal systems that really just leaves void or alpine.
herbst 4y ago
Did exactly that when unasked telemetry started to get a thing, and windows started to turn just worse. So before/with Windows 7. Really no reason to look back. As you said since proton is a thing the last anti Linux argument of games is a non issue (it kinda was before, but with more annoyances)
DavideNL 4y ago
Same, I started the process of installing Pop!_OS [1] last week. I hope all drivers and things like Fan control work will properly, so far it seems to work really well out of the box so i was impressed - but i haven't tested any games yet for example. [1] https://pop.system76.com/ https://pop.system76.com/ PS. I still can't believe Windows has declined so much, what the hell is happening at Microsoft?

barbariangrunge 4y ago

As a game developer, I’m stuck with windows for the foreseeable future. The major game engines technically work on Linux but the experience isn’t smooth and the companies don’t want to invest in improving it If they did, I’d switch back to Linux so fast— I actually really like gnome and miss the interface. It’s a dream for people who never want to touch their mice

Zardoz84 4y ago
Godot
- isthiseasymode 4y ago
  I believe they mean that the user base is mostly on windows. All of the major game engines already work with Linux and even MacOS. If they want to make money, they need to develop and test on windows.
  - dontlaugh 4y ago
    The tooling doesn’t work on anything other than Windows, for both Unreal and Unity.
    - deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
    - isthiseasymode 4y ago
      I write Unity games on my Mac. What do you mean?
Zurrrrr 4y ago
As a game developer I can see how you would be tied. I'm pretty lucky in that my gaming sticks to a few specific games for multiplayer (GTA online, counter-strike, sometimes red alert 2, nrs games) an a few specific AAA titles I want to play for campaigns. Gnome is pretty nice...I never understood why KDE was so popular with their childish naming scheme and some of the bloat that came in 4. Awesome was a gamechanger for me though, when I realized how easy it was to have a perfect gui, every little details perfectly to my specificaions.
- AnIdiotOnTheNet 4y ago
  > I never understood why KDE was so popular with their childish naming scheme and some of the bloat that came in 4 And I could never understand why GNOME is so popular with its desire to be a tablet interface and complete disdain for the very concept of user customization.
  - vetinari 4y ago
    I don't get why people think GNOME has a desire to be a tablet interface. It has not. It is just repeated ad nauseam by people, who never used it. Sure, it sucks at 14" 1376x768 displays, but 14" 1600x900 or fullhd -- you know, what you could find a poweruser using? It's perfect, without having 125% scale or whatever.
    - thaumasiotes 4y ago
      > I don't get why people think GNOME has a desire to be a tablet interface. That seems obvious. Because GNOME threw away GNOME 2, which people liked, and decided GNOME 3 would be a copy of Unity, which was supposed to be a tablet interface, and which distinguished itself only in being terrible?
      - vetinari 4y ago
        It's incorrect then, on several fronts. Unity was supposed to be netbook interface, not a tablet one. Tablets (as we know them today, not tablet pc, which sucked) were not yet a thing then. Gnome 3 decided not to be a clone of Unity, but not to be a clone of Windows 95. If you want a Windows 95 clone, you have a wide range of offers. If you do not want that, the choice was much worse. Gnome 3 improved that for those, who didn't want Windows 95 clone. Incidentally, the only people who think Gnome 3 is terrible are those, who cannot let Windows 95 concepts go. Everything that is different, is going to be terrible, simply by the virtue of being different.
klipklop 4y ago
I do 99% of my PC gaming with a Steam Deck. All the major games I am interested in "just work." If Elden Ring and most/all of my fav indie games work, I don't see why I will need a windows PC ever in the near future. I was able to get several non-steam games from the early 2000's working as well with Proton. Likely if more games are built against/for dxvk/proton things will get even easier.
josephcsible 4y ago
> The major game engines technically work on Linux but the experience isn’t smooth That hasn't been my experience. In recent times, I've always had one of these two things happen: 1. The game runs just as good or better on Linux than it does on Windows 2. The game can't be played at all on Linux, because of the DRM, anti-cheat, or anti-tamper
- empyrrhicist 4y ago
  I've had weird crashes - just frequent enough to dissuade me.
- capableweb 4y ago
  As a game consumer, Linux works well enough for 99% of the cases. As a game producer, the editors and engines might work, but it's missing a lot of polish and it's kind of a frustrating experience. I think you missed the first "As a game developer" part message of the comment you replied to, they are speaking about developing games, not playing them.
  - Karunamon 4y ago
    The 1% of cases you mentioned is an extremely impactful lot; usually multiplayer and esports titles with broad appeal and massive player bases. Platform compatibility is a quality, not quantity problem. If the one game someone wants to play most doesn't work, they're not going to switch.
    - capableweb 4y ago
      > If the one game someone wants to play most doesn't work, they're not going to switch. People keep saying this but more and more people are using Linux for gaming and the Steam Deck sells very well + receives a lot of praise. How could that be if what you are saying is true?
      - Karunamon 4y ago
        People don't care by and large that the steam deck runs on Linux, they care that a trusted company (probably the single most trusted company in gaming) released a hardware gaming device. If valve had put the same effort into the same hardware but made it Windows centric, most of its problems would go away. They just have very good reasons for trying to break away that platform. I used the word "switch" rather than "use" on purpose. Nobody with a steam deck is using it as their primary computer or gaming device. Nobody is going to at least until the biggest stuff out there runs on it
smeagull 4y ago
I'm just annoyed how few games release for Mac. I have a nice M1 all paid for me, but I can't game on it like I can my linux laptop - except that one has integrated graphics. My backlog of unplayed (and yet to be bought) AAA games now encompasses most of 5 years at this point.

AnIdiotOnTheNet 4y ago

If the VR story on Linux was even remotely palatable to me I'd have already switched. If some games I want don't work, that's a sacrifice I'm willing to make. As it is, I'm with you on 10 almost certainly being my last Windows.

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]

t0bia_s 4y ago

As someone who use Adobe profesionally, I cannot leave Windows. It frustrate me.

Zurrrrr 4y ago
If you own your device, no reason you HAVE to be tied to Adobe, it's just about compromise.
smeagull 4y ago
Well if you're using Adobe, then you don't care about telemetry or spyware, so it's not a problem.
- BizarreByte 4y ago
  I don’t think that’s fair to say that if one is using it professionally. If it puts food on the table you just have to grin and bear the things you don’t like. It’s not realistic to give up a tool that makes you money over personal feelings about telemetry and the like.
  - exodust 4y ago
    It's not about giving up a tool, it's about swapping it for a different tool. Creating a "food on table" dependency with Adobe is what's unrealistic.
    - t0bia_s 4y ago
      I'm profesionall freelance artist, with daily usages of Photoshop, Illustrator, InDesign, Premiere, After Effects, Audition and Lightroom. Yes, it literally brings food to my family on table. No, there is no competition if you need compatible project between different programs (dynamic link). After Effects don't have alternative at all. No, Adobe wont work on linux. MacOS is not alternative for Win in term of privacy. And usually overpriced if you need power.
      - 4y ago

user3939382 4y ago

+10 on NetBSD. Great quality code and really friendly community that I've been interacting with here and there for many years.

Zurrrrr 4y ago
Yeah it's drawn my interest for a while now. I think it has a lot of interesting security features that look fun to explore, and there is some functionality I would like to try porting to it also. Otherwise it's void if I can get it working. I use to run Slackware but not a fan of them trying to compete with Ubuntu. Not a fan of rolling release (as fantastic as Arch is) or source based, so for minimal systems that really just leaves void or alpine.

herbst 4y ago

Did exactly that when unasked telemetry started to get a thing, and windows started to turn just worse. So before/with Windows 7. Really no reason to look back. As you said since proton is a thing the last anti Linux argument of games is a non issue (it kinda was before, but with more annoyances)

DavideNL 4y ago

Same, I started the process of installing Pop!_OS [1] last week. I hope all drivers and things like Fan control work will properly, so far it seems to work really well out of the box so i was impressed - but i haven't tested any games yet for example. [1] https://pop.system76.com/ https://pop.system76.com/ PS. I still can't believe Windows has declined so much, what the hell is happening at Microsoft?