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When I was in high school (in the UK) we had a talk from someone who had been the Principle Private Secretary to the prime minister in the 80s and 90s, as well
by hnbear 4y ago
When I was in high school (in the UK) we had a talk from someone who had been the Principle Private Secretary to the prime minister in the 80s and 90s, as well as cabinet secretary. Similar roles to Bernard and Sir Humphrey.
He commented on how incredibly accurate the show was, not just in the humour, but in the rules, regulations, behaviour of the characters, etc.
Even small details were accurate, like the time Jim (through Bernard) locks the door between Downing St and the cabinet office. We were told how there was a single door, and use was a privilege afforded to specific roles, and it could be cut off.
For all its excellent humour, it was especially biting for how true and accurate it was about basically everything. The scenarios were all cleverly written to be generic enough to be timeless, while also specific enough to the time.
We still argue about the value of nuclear deterrents, for example, and the politicians still mindlessly chase votes and vote winning ideas and slogans.
- harry8 4y agoWhat has dated is that in the series they were all "jolly nice chaps" and the public service was super-competent if not always directed in the way one might like. Awfully pleasant "deep state" in the modern parlance. It seems much harder to suspend that disbelief on either competence or that they're all very sound and nice people. Is that just my ageing or have things changed a little?
- lmm 4y agoWell, the article talks about them all having no idea what this scientific compound was. Most people are reasonably competent on their own; the ineffectiveness of organisations is more about misalignment than about individual incompetence. That still feels true today.
- harry8 4y agoRight and not knowing detailed expertise is fine. I mean core competence of giving advice to the minister "if you do this, then that" and it not being idiotic. I can't imagine the public service advice to Blair, Brown, Cameron, May, Johnson, Truss and I'll leave the current one alone for now. I would have trouble suspending disbelief that it was as competent as Sir Humphry in his core competence. Sure every single f*king politician, judge, public servant and policy maker have their brain fall out of the ear as soon as "...using a computer on the internet.." is somewhere in what they are being told. It's truly astounding and embarrassing but that is different to say, to cite one example, Liz Truss deciding to cut taxes and increase spending when they're already broke and the obvious repercussions of that. ie Bank of England having to enter the markets to prevent crisis. "That's very courageous prime minister. Have you considered where you will take your holidays next week?"
- MichaelMoser123 4y agowell, we are all very nice people - except when it comes to the beef of the matter (i mean they all tend to bite when their basic interests are at stake)
- thazework 4y agoOxbridge education producing incompetent leaders was a running joke in the series.
- kjellsbells 4y agoThe fancy college I went to sent a lot of people into the UK Civil Service. The latter had a fast track program for those who passed a fairly rigorous set of exams. The thing is, those exams tested for a certain kind of confident general intelligence, and the upper echelons of the UK university system was extremely, extremely good at producing people like this-- but that didnt mean they had deep knowledge of anything, or that they had a moral compass, or even believed anything in particular. By way of example, in my college, you had to read some books, write essays taking a position, and defend it in real time to your tutor and a few peers. Twice a week for three years. You very rapidly learned how to pivot an argument, adapt to changing ground, even reverse your position. Do you see now why people like Boris Johnson are so eloquent without actually saying anything of meaning? That is the entire elite political class of Britain. And they are served by the same types of people. Its a blessing and a curse that civil servants have the intellectual flexibility to say the sun rises in the East to one minister and in the West to another, but that's how you get Sir Humphrey.
- hnbear 4y agoThe Thick of It presents the contemporary view. Equally hilarious, but taking a very different approach
- billytrend 4y agoThe person you’re talking about is my grandpa, Robin Butler. He has some great stories! Cool to see him mentioned on hacker news
- hnbear 4y agoHe was a fantastic and inspiring speaker. Interesting enough to remember ~25 years later. Thank you for bringing up his real name.
- wheelinsupial 4y agoAre there any stories you can share?