4 ms·

"Organizations such as the Joint FAO/WHO Meeting on Pesticide Residues and the European Commission, Canadian Pest Management Regulatory Agency, and the German F

"Organizations such as the Joint FAO/WHO Meeting on Pesticide Residues and the European Commission, Canadian Pest Management Regulatory Agency, and the German Federal Institute for Risk Assessment[30] have concluded that there is no evidence that glyphosate poses a carcinogenic or genotoxic risk to humans. The final assessment of the Australian Pesticides and Veterinary Medicines Authority in 2017 was that "glyphosate does not pose a carcinogenic risk to humans".[31] The EPA has evaluated the carcinogenic potential of glyphosate multiple times since 1986. In 1986, glyphosate was initially classified as Group C: "Possible Human Carcinogen", but later recommended as Group D: "Not Classifiable as to Human Carcinogenicity" due to lack of statistical significance in previously examined rat tumor studies. In 1991, it was classified as Group E: "Evidence of Non-Carcinogenicity for Humans", and in 2015 and 2017, "Not Likely to be Carcinogenic to Humans".[32][33]" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roundup_(herbicide) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roundup_(herbicide)

smilliken 4y ago
[flagged]
- overreg 4y ago
  I normally browse only but decided to inform any unfamiliar readers about the scientific evidence on this topic
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- kazinator 4y ago
  So what? What, not who. The referenced Wikipedia page, which you can easily find without help from a green HN account, wasn't created minutes ago.
- omginternets 4y ago
  Please don’t do that. There are plenty of good reasons to speak anonymously.
mbustamanter 4y ago
Absence of evidence != Evidence of absence. This mistake is especially pernicious when facing the choice of repeated trials, and something inherent to this topic since constantly eating food that at some point was subject to this chemical is by definition a repeated trial.
- jxramos 4y ago
  interesting, I wonder what the modes of operation are for shuffling across classifications and what specific evidence is required.
- kazinator 4y ago
  Yes, absence of evidence is evidence of absence, under the right evidence-gathering circumstances. Would you say that perhaps there are pigs which can fly, because absence of the evidence of the existence of flying pigs isn't evidence of their absence?
  - pella 4y ago
    > under the right evidence-gathering circumstances. 1.) Would you say that perhaps the Parachute is not working? "Conclusions: Parachute use did not reduce death or major traumatic injury when jumping from aircraft in the first randomized evaluation of this intervention." https://www.bmj.com/content/363/bmj.k5094 https://www.bmj.com/content/363/bmj.k5094 2.) Would you say that perhaps the Mask is not working? "Yes, masks reduce the risk of spreading COVID, despite a review saying they don’t" ( February 6 ) https://theconversation.com/yes-masks-reduce-the-risk-of-spreading-covid-despite-a-review-saying-they-dont-198992 https://theconversation.com/yes-masks-reduce-the-risk-of-spr...
  - Swenrekcah 4y ago
    People used to think there were no black swans until they found them. Re. flying pigs, we have total and complete observation of pigs for thousands of years, as well as a physical and biological understanding of why they can’t fly. If you have that, then it’s pretty safe to draw conclusions.
pella 4y ago
check: glyphosate gut-brain axis https://scholar.google.com/scholar?q=glyphosate+gut-brain+axis https://scholar.google.com/scholar?q=glyphosate+gut-brain+ax...
- ch4s3 4y ago
  The important caveat here is in laboratory mice, which isn't to dismiss ongoing work but to temper strong claims a bit.
  - pella 4y ago
    but enough to refute this type of claim: "... glyphosate has been considered to be generally safe to animal health .."
    - ch4s3 4y ago
      Does it? You can harm those deeply inbreed and sickly lab mice with almost anything, and these types of results often don't generalize to animals outside of the lab setting. The few I skimmed don't indicate dose, generalize out form some tentative stuff from past studies, and some are making wild claims about things like autism which seem to be out of line with meta-analysis[1] of the links between dysbiotic bacteria with respect to ASD. And this analysis points to the effects only being on rat pups[2] where it was administered in drinking water. And digging a little further it seems that the evidence on actual levels in food being dangerous to humans or other mammals is lacking[3] so I don't think it refutes the claim at all. [1] https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s10803-021-05002-y https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s10803-021-05002-y [2] https://link.springer.com/article/10.1186/s12940-018-0394-x https://link.springer.com/article/10.1186/s12940-018-0394-x [3] https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0013935122012609 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S00139...
- pella 4y ago
  "Gut microbiota and neurological effects of glyphosate" ( 2019, NeuroToxicology ) "Abstract There are currently various concerns regarding certain environmental toxins and the possible impact they can have on developmental diseases. Glyphosate (Gly) is the most utilised herbicide in agriculture, although its widespread use is generating controversy in the scientific world because of its probable carcinogenic effect on human cells. Gly performs as an inhibitor of 5-enolpyruvylshikimate-3-phospate synthase (EPSP synthase), not only in plants, but also in bacteria. An inhibiting effect on EPSP synthase from intestinal microbiota has been reported, affecting mainly beneficial bacteria. To the contrary, Clostridium spp. and Salmonella strains are shown to be resistant to Gly. Consequently, researchers have suggested that Gly can cause dysbiosis, a phenomenon which is characterised by an imbalance between beneficial and pathogenic microorganisms. The overgrowth of bacteria such as clostridia generates high levels of noxious metabolites in the brain, which can contribute to the development of neurological deviations. This work reviews the impact of Gly-induced intestinal dysbiosis on the central nervous system, focusing on emotional, neurological and neurodegenerative disorders. A wide variety of factors were investigated in relation to brain-related changes, including highlighting genetic abnormalities, pregnancy-associated problems, diet, infections, vaccines and heavy metals. However, more studies are required to determine the implication of the most internationally used herbicide, Gly, in behavioural disorders." read more: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0161813X19300816 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S01618...
dekhn 4y ago
That's right- the IARC is the odd one out here and their results are based mainly on discredited experiments on rats that are known to be prone to getting cancer (meaning they aren't a good model for humans in this case).

smilliken 4y ago

[flagged]

overreg 4y ago
I normally browse only but decided to inform any unfamiliar readers about the scientific evidence on this topic
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
kazinator 4y ago
So what? What, not who. The referenced Wikipedia page, which you can easily find without help from a green HN account, wasn't created minutes ago.
omginternets 4y ago
Please don’t do that. There are plenty of good reasons to speak anonymously.

mbustamanter 4y ago

Absence of evidence != Evidence of absence. This mistake is especially pernicious when facing the choice of repeated trials, and something inherent to this topic since constantly eating food that at some point was subject to this chemical is by definition a repeated trial.

jxramos 4y ago
interesting, I wonder what the modes of operation are for shuffling across classifications and what specific evidence is required.
kazinator 4y ago
Yes, absence of evidence is evidence of absence, under the right evidence-gathering circumstances. Would you say that perhaps there are pigs which can fly, because absence of the evidence of the existence of flying pigs isn't evidence of their absence?
- pella 4y ago
  > under the right evidence-gathering circumstances. 1.) Would you say that perhaps the Parachute is not working? "Conclusions: Parachute use did not reduce death or major traumatic injury when jumping from aircraft in the first randomized evaluation of this intervention." https://www.bmj.com/content/363/bmj.k5094 https://www.bmj.com/content/363/bmj.k5094 2.) Would you say that perhaps the Mask is not working? "Yes, masks reduce the risk of spreading COVID, despite a review saying they don’t" ( February 6 ) https://theconversation.com/yes-masks-reduce-the-risk-of-spreading-covid-despite-a-review-saying-they-dont-198992 https://theconversation.com/yes-masks-reduce-the-risk-of-spr...
- Swenrekcah 4y ago
  People used to think there were no black swans until they found them. Re. flying pigs, we have total and complete observation of pigs for thousands of years, as well as a physical and biological understanding of why they can’t fly. If you have that, then it’s pretty safe to draw conclusions.

pella 4y ago

check: glyphosate gut-brain axis https://scholar.google.com/scholar?q=glyphosate+gut-brain+axis https://scholar.google.com/scholar?q=glyphosate+gut-brain+ax...

ch4s3 4y ago
The important caveat here is in laboratory mice, which isn't to dismiss ongoing work but to temper strong claims a bit.
- pella 4y ago
  but enough to refute this type of claim: "... glyphosate has been considered to be generally safe to animal health .."
  - ch4s3 4y ago
    Does it? You can harm those deeply inbreed and sickly lab mice with almost anything, and these types of results often don't generalize to animals outside of the lab setting. The few I skimmed don't indicate dose, generalize out form some tentative stuff from past studies, and some are making wild claims about things like autism which seem to be out of line with meta-analysis[1] of the links between dysbiotic bacteria with respect to ASD. And this analysis points to the effects only being on rat pups[2] where it was administered in drinking water. And digging a little further it seems that the evidence on actual levels in food being dangerous to humans or other mammals is lacking[3] so I don't think it refutes the claim at all. [1] https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s10803-021-05002-y https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s10803-021-05002-y [2] https://link.springer.com/article/10.1186/s12940-018-0394-x https://link.springer.com/article/10.1186/s12940-018-0394-x [3] https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0013935122012609 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S00139...
pella 4y ago
"Gut microbiota and neurological effects of glyphosate" ( 2019, NeuroToxicology ) "Abstract There are currently various concerns regarding certain environmental toxins and the possible impact they can have on developmental diseases. Glyphosate (Gly) is the most utilised herbicide in agriculture, although its widespread use is generating controversy in the scientific world because of its probable carcinogenic effect on human cells. Gly performs as an inhibitor of 5-enolpyruvylshikimate-3-phospate synthase (EPSP synthase), not only in plants, but also in bacteria. An inhibiting effect on EPSP synthase from intestinal microbiota has been reported, affecting mainly beneficial bacteria. To the contrary, Clostridium spp. and Salmonella strains are shown to be resistant to Gly. Consequently, researchers have suggested that Gly can cause dysbiosis, a phenomenon which is characterised by an imbalance between beneficial and pathogenic microorganisms. The overgrowth of bacteria such as clostridia generates high levels of noxious metabolites in the brain, which can contribute to the development of neurological deviations. This work reviews the impact of Gly-induced intestinal dysbiosis on the central nervous system, focusing on emotional, neurological and neurodegenerative disorders. A wide variety of factors were investigated in relation to brain-related changes, including highlighting genetic abnormalities, pregnancy-associated problems, diet, infections, vaccines and heavy metals. However, more studies are required to determine the implication of the most internationally used herbicide, Gly, in behavioural disorders." read more: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0161813X19300816 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S01618...

dekhn 4y ago

That's right- the IARC is the odd one out here and their results are based mainly on discredited experiments on rats that are known to be prone to getting cancer (meaning they aren't a good model for humans in this case).