7 ms·

What advantage would I have as a user of a "digital pound", compared to a regular bank account? Increased surveillance? Money with an expiration date?

Neil44 4y ago
According to the PDF, the digital pound is issued by and backed by the bank of england and as such is classed as 'public money' in the same way as cash. You don't need to go begging to a private institution for the privilage of holding a bank account to hold your 'private money' which is effectively backed by the private bank. Private bank goes away, private money goes away. If private banks decide they don't like you any more your life becomes very difficult. As physical cash goes away the digital pound is meant to plug that gap, plus a load of other things I probably don't understand.
- danuker 4y ago
  > As physical cash goes away Ah. I see where this is going now.
- robertlagrant 4y ago
  > If private banks decide they don't like you any more your life becomes very difficult. Just wait and see what happens to your life if the state decides it doesn't like you.
  - imtringued 4y ago
    You go to jail?
    - throwaway98797 4y ago
      the broader point here is with digital money things that would require discretion become automated which is the dystopia people fear think about it, the vast majority of people break speeding laws. we are okay and on good days trust the cops to stop reckless drivers but let the morning commuters go. apply the same logic to minor financial crimes
      - RealityVoid 4y ago
        I'm sorry, I fail to imagine how this dystopia people are talking is any different than the current times. I feel people are assigning _way too much_ importance to the changes this will bring. Kind of how people assigned way too much importance to the changes cryptocurrency will bring. When crypto was young, really young, a lot of backers saw in it the brainchild of their favourite political system, the thing that will save them for tyranny. They just impregnated it with their wishes and desires. Well, I think that was silly. And in the same way, I think impregnating cbdc's with all their fears is just as silly.
        throwaway98797 4y ago
        i’m old enough to remember the patriot act over time it touched more and more people even democratic governments can easily abuse their power so i’m off the mind to limit their power politically, financially, and technically.
      - Neil44 4y ago
        I do worry about that as a general point. We're all guilty of something random, in the future it'll be possible to find out exactly what by running an sql query against some huge govt database. And when we're all guilty of something it gives massive leverage against us.
  - ravel-bar-foo 4y ago
    Only need to look so far as Canada for financial supporters of a protest movement getting cut off from the financial system in midwinter. Now imagine that was centralized and could be done without informing anyone outside the central bank.
    - danuker 4y ago
      Was it not centralized in Canada?
- bsdz 4y ago
  In the UK, there's the National Savings & Investment bank which is fully backed by the government. Any savings there aren't capped at 100k EUR (GBP equivalent) like other banks. This digital pound sounds a little bit like an extension of this imho.
bluescrn 4y ago
Worst-case scenario, in the dystopia we seem to be heading towards, employers or governments could control what the employees/peasants are permitted to spend their money on. I could imagine something like: "At least 50% must be spent in your local district of your '15 minute city'. Purchases of alcohol, meat, and fossil fuels are prohibited. Unspent currency expires after 30 days and cannot be rolled over to the next month." "Only senior management and above get paid in 'unrestricted' currency."
- imtringued 4y ago
  >in the dystopia we seem to be heading towards, employers or governments could control what the employees/peasants are permitted to spend their money on. Food stamps via EBT...
  - bojangleslover 4y ago
    Well that's not their money
  - gadflyinyoureye 4y ago
    Food stamps are a handout. They are gained from agency, but existence. Should we limit people's ability to chose their outcomes that result from their own labor?
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- eddsh1994 4y ago
  Oh don't say that, that sounds possible :(
- phendrenad2 4y ago
  They can already do this at any time without CBDCs. They just need to pass a law that all payments must he reported to the government. And then they can, at their leisure, arrest anyone who broke the "50% must be spent in your local area" law.
csa 4y ago
> What advantage would I have as a user of a "digital pound", compared to a regular bank account Two largest groups of users will be: 1. People who don’t have access to pound bank accounts (folks who live abroad). 2. People who effectively give all this control and info away already by not using cash ever. Note that we are in an economic battle/war right now with regards to crypto/digital currency in developing countries. The digital RMB, digital pound, digital USD, and perhaps others will be an efficient way for the currency distributors to influence/control foreign populations. It wouldn’t surprise me if the west wins most of these battles simply by offering colonial digital currency with which folks can conduct transactions.
mywittyname 4y ago
People on the lower rungs of society can get access to free banking. In the USA at least, it can be difficult to get a bank account if you don't have much money. And since companies don't like writing checks, people working jobs at the lower end of the economic latter have to get special "paycheck cards" that extract relatively large fees for the service they offer. Imagine making poverty wages, yet 2-5% of your paycheck is taken from you as a fee for not having a bank account (which you don't have because you make poverty wages).
- acolumb 4y ago
  It costs $5 to open a bank account at most US credit unions.
  - notch898a 4y ago
    In theory. In practice even with a valid US passport in hand you won't pass KYC without proof of address. To get an address costs either money to get a place or lots of time spent with social workers, assuming they're even accessible, to get the legally valid evidence of a homeless shelter as your address. Additionally, when I was living in poverty at least I often was living in legally precarious housing with no mail access and landlords that didn't want any "on-the-record" evidence and thus no proof of my address. KYC is a big expensive burden on the poor that blocks banking access.
  - pessimizer 4y ago
    Tell that to people who spent years unbanked, cashing their paychecks at a van that would pull into the factory parking lot on payday, like me 20 years ago.

Neil44 4y ago

According to the PDF, the digital pound is issued by and backed by the bank of england and as such is classed as 'public money' in the same way as cash. You don't need to go begging to a private institution for the privilage of holding a bank account to hold your 'private money' which is effectively backed by the private bank. Private bank goes away, private money goes away. If private banks decide they don't like you any more your life becomes very difficult. As physical cash goes away the digital pound is meant to plug that gap, plus a load of other things I probably don't understand.

danuker 4y ago
> As physical cash goes away Ah. I see where this is going now.
robertlagrant 4y ago
> If private banks decide they don't like you any more your life becomes very difficult. Just wait and see what happens to your life if the state decides it doesn't like you.
- imtringued 4y ago
  You go to jail?
  - throwaway98797 4y ago
    the broader point here is with digital money things that would require discretion become automated which is the dystopia people fear think about it, the vast majority of people break speeding laws. we are okay and on good days trust the cops to stop reckless drivers but let the morning commuters go. apply the same logic to minor financial crimes
    - RealityVoid 4y ago
      I'm sorry, I fail to imagine how this dystopia people are talking is any different than the current times. I feel people are assigning _way too much_ importance to the changes this will bring. Kind of how people assigned way too much importance to the changes cryptocurrency will bring. When crypto was young, really young, a lot of backers saw in it the brainchild of their favourite political system, the thing that will save them for tyranny. They just impregnated it with their wishes and desires. Well, I think that was silly. And in the same way, I think impregnating cbdc's with all their fears is just as silly.
      - throwaway98797 4y ago
        i’m old enough to remember the patriot act over time it touched more and more people even democratic governments can easily abuse their power so i’m off the mind to limit their power politically, financially, and technically.
    - Neil44 4y ago
      I do worry about that as a general point. We're all guilty of something random, in the future it'll be possible to find out exactly what by running an sql query against some huge govt database. And when we're all guilty of something it gives massive leverage against us.
- ravel-bar-foo 4y ago
  Only need to look so far as Canada for financial supporters of a protest movement getting cut off from the financial system in midwinter. Now imagine that was centralized and could be done without informing anyone outside the central bank.
  - danuker 4y ago
    Was it not centralized in Canada?
bsdz 4y ago
In the UK, there's the National Savings & Investment bank which is fully backed by the government. Any savings there aren't capped at 100k EUR (GBP equivalent) like other banks. This digital pound sounds a little bit like an extension of this imho.

bluescrn 4y ago

Worst-case scenario, in the dystopia we seem to be heading towards, employers or governments could control what the employees/peasants are permitted to spend their money on. I could imagine something like: "At least 50% must be spent in your local district of your '15 minute city'. Purchases of alcohol, meat, and fossil fuels are prohibited. Unspent currency expires after 30 days and cannot be rolled over to the next month." "Only senior management and above get paid in 'unrestricted' currency."

imtringued 4y ago
>in the dystopia we seem to be heading towards, employers or governments could control what the employees/peasants are permitted to spend their money on. Food stamps via EBT...
- bojangleslover 4y ago
  Well that's not their money
- gadflyinyoureye 4y ago
  Food stamps are a handout. They are gained from agency, but existence. Should we limit people's ability to chose their outcomes that result from their own labor?
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
eddsh1994 4y ago
Oh don't say that, that sounds possible :(
phendrenad2 4y ago
They can already do this at any time without CBDCs. They just need to pass a law that all payments must he reported to the government. And then they can, at their leisure, arrest anyone who broke the "50% must be spent in your local area" law.

csa 4y ago

> What advantage would I have as a user of a "digital pound", compared to a regular bank account Two largest groups of users will be: 1. People who don’t have access to pound bank accounts (folks who live abroad). 2. People who effectively give all this control and info away already by not using cash ever. Note that we are in an economic battle/war right now with regards to crypto/digital currency in developing countries. The digital RMB, digital pound, digital USD, and perhaps others will be an efficient way for the currency distributors to influence/control foreign populations. It wouldn’t surprise me if the west wins most of these battles simply by offering colonial digital currency with which folks can conduct transactions.

mywittyname 4y ago

People on the lower rungs of society can get access to free banking. In the USA at least, it can be difficult to get a bank account if you don't have much money. And since companies don't like writing checks, people working jobs at the lower end of the economic latter have to get special "paycheck cards" that extract relatively large fees for the service they offer. Imagine making poverty wages, yet 2-5% of your paycheck is taken from you as a fee for not having a bank account (which you don't have because you make poverty wages).

acolumb 4y ago
It costs $5 to open a bank account at most US credit unions.
- notch898a 4y ago
  In theory. In practice even with a valid US passport in hand you won't pass KYC without proof of address. To get an address costs either money to get a place or lots of time spent with social workers, assuming they're even accessible, to get the legally valid evidence of a homeless shelter as your address. Additionally, when I was living in poverty at least I often was living in legally precarious housing with no mail access and landlords that didn't want any "on-the-record" evidence and thus no proof of my address. KYC is a big expensive burden on the poor that blocks banking access.
- pessimizer 4y ago
  Tell that to people who spent years unbanked, cashing their paychecks at a van that would pull into the factory parking lot on payday, like me 20 years ago.