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DIY 1,500W solar power electric bike (2022)

103 points by lxm 4y ago

theamk 4y ago
It's RadWagon 4 with white paint job, upgraded brakes/power controller, and solar panel at the top of the stock roof. Not quite what I expected when I read the title. Btw, the panel is 50W, and I assume the battery is stock, 672 Wh. That's 14+ hours of best-case sunlight to recharge fully. I wonder how practical is it.
- jillesvangurp 4y ago
  You don't have to fully charge it unless you fully drain the battery. Which on most days you probably won't. You can still plug it in when you do. With solar that just happens a little less often. Which is convenient and very practical.
- sandworm101 4y ago
  It isnt practical. The trickle from the solar panels is basically irrelevant. It would be far more efficient to attach the panels to a grid, somewhere they can operate coninuously with a view of the sun, then charge the bike off the grid. But virtue signaling is often more important than practicality.
  - poopbutt7 4y ago
    Agreed- another waste of space on the front page. This hobbyist should be embarrassed by their folly.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  - ThatPlayer 4y ago
    I think it's a matter of scale. That's a 50W panel, it would relatively expensive to get an inverter and an inspection/plan from your power company just to be able to use the grid as a battery. Also it would be less efficient because of the AC conversion. My personal preferred way to do this would be to have a stationary battery to charge up, and better solar panel positioning like you say, but that costs a bit more for that stationary battery. And if the only thing that battery/solar setup is used for is charging the bike, and you don't actually need more power then all that extra power is just gonna go to waste.
    - fomine3 4y ago
      Yeah, such cost is my blocker to install cheap solar panel on my home. On-grid solar system equipment is expensive but I don't have any good use case for unstable off-grid solar. If I drive e-bike, charging removable batteries by off-grid solar looks perfect use case, but I always drive a car.
      - ThatPlayer 4y ago
        The solar inverter for my off-grid setup does allow for fallback to grid power if the solar and battery are out. So I would be able to do stable "partially solar" power without having to dump power back into the grid. Still not sure it's worth the cost, as you'd need a very consistent power draw to make a return, or batteries that make the return take even longer. Still a fun project though, and not something I built to make a return on.
    - Scoundreller 4y ago
      I'm waiting for someone to build a grid-solar hybrid refrigerator/freezer that can attach to a 50w or 100w PV running at "low-voltage" ie: < 48V. No permit/electrician required, no grid-intertie inspection required. Modern fridges are often inverter drive, so should be easier to incorporate a DC power source. And they generally run all the time because they do variable-frequency drive. Best part, it keeps working during power outages. Extra points for putting on a USB charging port (only works during the day, but still!).
      - fbdab103 4y ago
        I am waiting for the same, but with air conditioners. A crappy $100-$200 window unit, plugged into an equally baseline solar panel. Free opex cooling that could be installed for basically no work.
        irq 4y ago
        An air conditioner - even a crappy $200 window unit - will draw an order of magnitude more power than OP’s 50 watt refrigerator. You’ll need much more solar, either more panels or bigger panels (likely both).
  - Rebelgecko 4y ago
    It's sounds like this IS (mostly) a case of charging the bike "off the grid". If the trickle charging changes the usability of the bike from "charge it every 2-3 days" to "only charge it when there's multiple cloudy days in a row", that's a huge step up in convenience.
    - ilyt 4y ago
      The problem is that the way it was done looks pretty inconvenient with panel being high up and potentially in the way
  - renewiltord 4y ago
    Hobby DIY is a fun thing for many people to try. But spending all your time online is often more important than building.
- jonas21 4y ago
  The RadWagon 4 has a listed range of 45 miles. In practice, people seem to be getting closer to 30 miles. The modifications look like they'll add some drag, so let's say it gets 20-25 miles per charge. If you leave the bike out in the sun all day, you can probably add 10-15 miles of range, which would be practical for some people (not everyone of course, but for many people, an e-bike wouldn't be practical even with infinite range).
  - kurthr 4y ago
    I don't know where you're talking about, but only Arizona and SoCal get close to the 7-8 Peak Sun Equivalent Hours you'd need to get. But yeah 7-10mi realistically in most of the US or 5mi in the winter. That's not terrible, but it does require pretty perfect alignment and no shaddowing.
- ehnto 4y ago
  For a daily short commute it is probably enough, it would be for my daily commute of 40kms total on a pedelec. This is also a pedelec, so the practical answer is that it doesn't matter in any dimension since it can be charged from a wall when it's not sunny and it can be pedaled if it runs out, but it would be fun to know how much they have to plug it in. In a pedelec after a certain point you and the battery are working together to maintain speed and it really doesn't take much battery. But there are so many variables that it's hard to talk about it meaningfully.
- irjustin 4y ago
  Feels like it would be better to have 2 batteries, dedicated charging "shed", and fast swap ability? Storing the bike outdoors continuously in the sun, wears on the condition considerably faster than indoors. Having the solar panel attached makes for "all in one" articles, but seems rather limited on practicality for most people.
  - Gigachad 4y ago
    It always is. But people get so stuck on this idea of lugging the panel around with you for some reason.
- JKCalhoun 4y ago
  Yeah, makes more sense to leave the solar panel in your backyard (saving some weight) and have spare battery always sitting on the solar charger. Then you can bring your bike inside, in the shade, etc. — not having to always find sunlight to park in. The only way bringing the solar panel with the bike makes sense is a multi-day ride. But as is being pointed out, you're going to be spending a lot more time sunbathing rather than biking under power.
  - westurner 4y ago
    <wagon in tow> Yeah, Good call boss. The cost figures in this article about [rooftop,] wind do not take into account latest gen [Dyneema] ultralight rooftop solar: "Rooftop wind energy innovation claims 50% more energy than solar at same cost" (2022) https://pv-magazine-usa.com/2022/10/14/rooftop-wind-energy-innovation-claims-50-more-energy-than-solar-at-same-cost/ https://pv-magazine-usa.com/2022/10/14/rooftop-wind-energy-i... > The scalable, “#motionless” #WindEnergy unit can produce 50% more energy than rooftop solar at the same cost, said the company. > The technology leverages aerodynamics similar to #airfoils in a race car to capture and amplify each building’s airflow. The unit requires about 10% of the space required by solar panels and generates round-the-clock energy. Aeromine said unlike conventional wind turbines that are noisy, visually intrusive, and dangerous to migratory birds, the patented system is motionless and virtually silent. > An #Aeromine system typically consists of 20 to 40 units installed on the edge of a building facing the predominant wind direction. The company said the unit can minimize energy storage capacity needed to meet a building’s energy needs, producing energy in all weather conditions. With a small footprint on the roof, the unit can be combined with rooftop solar, providing a new tool in the toolkit for decarbonization and energy independence. "18 Times More Power: MIT Researchers Have Developed Ultrathin Lightweight Solar Cells" (2022) https://scitechdaily.com/18-times-more-power-mit-researchers-have-developed-ultrathin-lightweight-solar-cells/ https://scitechdaily.com/18-times-more-power-mit-researchers... : > When they tested the device, the MIT researchers found it could generate 730 watts of power per kilogram when freestanding and about 370 watts-per-kilogram if deployed on the high-strength Dyneema fabric, which is about 18 times more power-per-kilogram than conventional solar cells. > “A typical rooftop solar installation in Massachusetts is about 8,000 watts. To generate that same amount of power, our fabric photovoltaics would only add about 20 kilograms (44 pounds) to the roof of a house,” he says. > They also tested the durability of their devices and found that, even after rolling and unrolling a fabric solar panel more than 500 times, the cells still retained more than 90 percent of their initial power generation capabilities. E.g. Hyperlite Mountain Gear sells Dyneema ultralight backpacking packs and coats. There are Dyneema Patch Kits that work for various types of gear. Wise to look at Ultralight backpacking gear before buying regular camping gear. Solarcore Aerogel is warm and light and also in encased in PVA foam rubber which is like a new wet suit. https://twitter.com/westurner/status/1600820322567041024 https://twitter.com/westurner/status/1600820322567041024 Kayaking bags are waterproof, but are there yet Dyneema ones?
- Schroedingersat 4y ago
  I use a bike with a 400Wh battery for errands and social visits daily and charge it once a week running on eco or normal mode. My cargo trike which gets used a lot less has a 200W panel and I don't even have to think about parking it outside rather than in the shed, just the charge from parking durkng whatever errand is run means it comes back with higher charge than when it left if it is down from the parasitic drain.
- jacquesm 4y ago
  The way that controller and charger are mounted to the chassis without any real shock absorbing measures is asking for trouble, I've done something similar and I think that half the work was to make sure that shocks from the road on the frame did not make it to the electronics or the battery (and that system has worked well for about a year now). Also, the electronics are mounted out in the open and on top of a small bit of wood, that works well in the lab but if you're going to be biking and end up being rained on it may well cause issues, just using splash proof connectors isn't enough, you need to protect the electronics from the elements by eliminating direct contact with the elements. Much like in a car: all of the connectors under the hood are waterproof and they are under the hood, not out in the weather. That said, it's a neat idea.
  - andreareina 4y ago
    How did you manage the shocks? I've been thinking about a conversation for my commuter (more for the diy aspect than really wanting an electric)
    - Hextinium 4y ago
      For most shocks a little foam goes a long way, having the electronics be bolted to a cushioned box or having the electronics laying in foam (with appropriate cooling) helps a lot. Source: I cushion my robots this way, haven't gotten to the ebike yet.
      - jacquesm 4y ago
        Bikes operate in a pretty tough environment, especially potholes and vibration need some careful thinking when it comes to the effect on your design. Potting is best but then you have to be very careful about managing the heat. Your robot experience will serve you well when building an e-bike but beware of the weather, heat, rain, snow, ice and UV are all pretty rough on electronics, enclosures and wiring.
    - jacquesm 4y ago
      The whole is mounted in a trespa box in such a way that there is a few millimeters of shock mount in all three directions (very high density foam) and all empty spaces are completely filled up. That box in turn is then mounted to the frame again in a similar way, I tested the whole using dummy weight and the accelerometer in a phone to see what happened when jumping a pothole at speed (which is about the worst that you could do to this bike) and it came in well under the limits and also tested it on a very rough path to see what it would do when subjected to vibration. The front fork is a very nice 'Fox' unit with adjustable springs which have been set to be in the middle of their travel range when the bike is fully loaded and so that it never bottoms out even under the worst conditions. On the whole it isn't perfect but good enough for many years, I've run this setup for a year now and have once (at 5K km) inspected the wiring and the battery welds and everything seems to be holding up quite well. Things to be careful with: overpressuring the tires would reduce the amount of shock absorbing capacity quite a bit (and is definitely not recommended with tires this wide anyway), the rolling resistance of these is fairly high but that is just how they are designed. Then, obviously there is bumping in to things and falling at speed, which fortunately hasn't happened. But if it did I would immediately consider the battery pack a write-off in spite of being super well protected. I've done about 10K on it now and when it hits 20 I'll take the whole thing apart to see if there is any wear that is hidden from view. I'm mostly concerned with the battery welds and the wiring, those are the weak points, even with all of the wiring contained within the enclosure, routed carefully to never cross over any other wires and with the welds checked using a FLIR during a pretty rapid discharge (twice as fast as the motor could ever do). The OP has mounted the charge controller and the motor controller to a piece of wood (which will flex a bit but not much) which in turn appears to be protected in only one axis (side-to-side) and is either free to move or rigid in the other two. The wiring runs 'cold' without any kind of extra protection through the wood that it is mounted on. The frame is unsprung as far as I can tell, which especially for the front is not a luxury on a bike this heavy, which makes bike+battery the unsprung weight (I think I see a saddle pin with a rubber mount so there is some flex there). That battery box may have some foam in it or some other suspension for the battery which is good. As long as he's on good asphalt this setup will work, but as soon as you go on less perfect roads I think that it will give trouble over time. DIY stuff like this looks great on the day you build it if you don't build it for abuse, but exposed wiring is dangerous and vibration as well as the weather are going to be rough on this. I'm curious what it will look like a year from now if used intensively, and also how the wire runs are on the other side of that board.
- discordance 4y ago
  A larger panel could easily charge that battery and have the added benefit of shading the rider from sun and rain. Lightweight (4lbs/2kg), flexible 100W-300W panels exist that are pretty cheap.
- moffkalast 4y ago
  > Btw, the panel is 50W In their dreams maybe, that looks more like 40W sized poly panel, and it'll never get close to that unless they're driving it along the equator with active cooling on the other side.
- clnq 4y ago
  You rarely use 100% of the battery on these things because they are heavy to pedal manually. Range anxiety makes most people use 80% at most daily. I have few Rad Runners at home and they basically never run below 20%. So getting +50% charge in a day is not too bad.
pengaru 4y ago
Surprised to see such small diameter tires on something desperate for low rolling resistance to make those precious KWs go further...
- ianburrell 4y ago
  Some long tail cargo bikes have smaller back wheel to keep the center of gravity lower when carrying cargo. I’ve seen small back and normal front, or both small like with the RadPower 4 this is based on.
morganw 4y ago
For a bike with a more reasonable solar area (with tilt functionality) for a significant contribution to motive power, check out https://ebikes.ca/suntrip.html https://ebikes.ca/suntrip.html
- JKCalhoun 4y ago
  That's clever. They get it.
  - chillingeffect 4y ago
    That is a great design configuration. I've seen a few models like this at Burning Man. Great mix of cargo, charging, balance, speed, etc. I was so inspired by seeing them I wrote a paper designing an entire town based around vehicles like this :) I mean except for the 2nd passenger with rowing & leg press interface, that's......forward thinking!
    - KuiN 4y ago
      Did you ever share that paper publicly? I'd be interested in reading it
- tppiotrowski 4y ago
  The Lightyear One [1] is supposed to be a solar powered car but I think it misses an important distinction. Cars spend a lot of time parked and during this time they can unfold a large capacity of solar panels like petals of a flower (similar to how spacecraft deploy once they leave the fairing). You can cover the windshield and all the other windows, for example. Instead, the Lightyear One has focused on streamlining the solar panels in an aerodynamic way that doesn't take advantage of extra power when parked. [1] https://lightyear.one/lightyear-0 https://lightyear.one/lightyear-0
  - tomcam 4y ago
    > they can unfold a large capacity of solar panels like petals of a flower Feels like vandalism or just accidental collisions would be real problems
Scoundreller 4y ago
Kinda surprised nobody has started building out solar-powered bicycle charging-locking stations. Could be cool to have at a camp-site.
- gorbypark 4y ago
  Hopefully eBikes/scooters will start to standardize their charging interfaces. If I am not mistaken the new USB-C PD standard can pump out 240W(48V) and the older PD standard can do 100W(20V). I think that would be the most obvious solution, and with the new USB PD standard going up to 48v, that would cover most models without any extra voltage regulation circuitry. I semi recently moved from small town Canada to big city Europe and decided to go car free and just use an electric scooter. If I could plug it in (and not have to lug around a charger) and lock it up somewhere, that would be amazing. I get about 15k-20km per charge, which is more or less perfect since I can go anywhere in the city and back home, but it would be nice to top up on some occasions.
  - pastage 4y ago
    Yes top up charging would be great! I frequently do 90km runs on my ebike and it would be great not having to worry. Also it would make it easier for me to loiter in shopping areas and such. I believe 240W charge is too little considering the motor usually draws atleast that. I have always thought high speed charge should be thing.
    - gorbypark 4y ago
      Yeah, the higher the speed the better! My current scooter (Xiaomi M365 Pro 2) only charges at 80 watts, though. The charger is rated for 42V output, which I believe means it's a 36V battery. I'm not very knowledgeable on the eBike side of things but a quick look at Bosch's site shows they seem to do 4A or 6A "fast" charging on their 36V batteries. 424=168 or 426=252Watts, so it seems like PD 3.1 could charge at regular speeds and at about 90% of fast charge speeds. Not bad, really!
s3graham 4y ago
Suntrip has had lots of great ones. I love Justin and Anne-Sophie's rig from a few years ago: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XIMM25unnU8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XIMM25unnU8 . If you check their channel, their small company does bespoke conversion work and they profile/demo some other interesting riders too.
fulafel 4y ago
Nice demonstration of what efficient mobility can look like even without hi tech light materials etc. You could put more panels on the sides. I wonder if there's a two sided panel that could take sunlight from either side, you could have it on one side only and get the light through the wheel and spokes from the other side depending how it's facing.
- GoToRO 4y ago
  All panels are kind of two sided. And now there are newer ones that are trully two sided but they are not widespread yet.
ck2 4y ago
Having ridden bikes for errands all my life that bike is way too heavy and lacks all agility needed to ride the broken poorly-maintained roads these days with super heavy cars and SUVs (with drivers barely paying attention at all). Bike also doesn't have suspension. You will feel everything with all that weight. Never put weight on the front wheel inhibiting fast turns and reaction time. Electric Tut-Tut with pedals might be more practical if ever allowed in bike lanes https://electrek.co/2023/02/02/i-bought-electric-rickshaw-tuk-tuk/ https://electrek.co/2023/02/02/i-bought-electric-rickshaw-tu...
- fbdab103 4y ago
  If he is using it to ferry children to and fro, I suspect he is prioritizing routes with significantly less risk of road hazards and heavy traffic. More pleasure-craft than ultimate utility.
  - pastage 4y ago
    This is also how you get more people on bikes; build infrastructure that is actually useable by all. Oh how I fear the stroads so common in the US.
- Xylakant 4y ago
  I've not tested this specific one, but the balloon tires you see nowadays (Schwalbe Big Ben/Big Apple or similar) provide a pretty good amount of suspension and handle well on rough surfaces. Small wheels will be an issue if you're dealing with potholes. Agility is not going to save you with a passenger, so don't rely on that in the first place.
margalabargala 4y ago
Question about ebike controllers to anyone who knows. It seems odd that upgrading the controller would necessarily push more amperage through the motor; wouldn't a motor given a certain voltage simply pull amperage based on its internal resistance, so long as the controller was able to supply the power?
- chillingeffect 4y ago
  great question! I work on servo controllers, so I can talk a little bit about it. The short answer is most controllers regulate current. They do these by driving at varying levels of voltage, measuring the resulting current, and using that measurement to adjust the voltage until the desired current is attained. So the relative resistance of the motor doesn't matter much with respect to how much current will flow through it. In this case, I would assume the upgraded controller is able to drive a higher voltage in order to attained the increased current. The smaller controller likely has smaller, cheaper power transistors and related components, so it must limit itself to the maximum current (and power and heat) those transistors can handle. BTW, the resistance of motors these days is relatively low... They can likely not handle the full amperage from the battery for very long. They simply must use controllers to switch the current.
  - margalabargala 4y ago
    Got it, thanks. The reason I ask is, I'm working on an ebike that had a cheap undersized controller installed such that if I drive it at full throttle long enough, the controller overheats and shuts off. My plan was to simply upgrade to a controller with a much higher amperage rating, removing that as a concern. But it sounds like doing this could just burn out the motor? I think I can change the software of the controller to limit maximum power output, I'll have to do that I guess. I would not have expected a controller capable of 60A to attempt to actually force 60A through a 48V, 1000W motor if the throttle was held down; I would have expected it to apply battery-level voltage to the motor (or do an internal step up/down to a constant 48V) and simply permit the motor to draw whatever amperage it pleased at that in-spec voltage.
greenaboveall 4y ago
I appreciate the technical challenge and creativity. But is it really that "green"? The battery, the solar cells, the extra heavy frame, and in a few years when it's out of fashion, all that is trash. Sure, compared to a gasoline driven motorcycle it's maybe better for the environment after enough miles, considering the whole lifecycle. Not by much though. But if you compare it to a reasonably light "ordinary" bike, driven by muscle power, this is nowhere near "eco". It's heavy, it's expensive, and it's not going to do much good for your health. If you want a vehicle with an engine, leave the pedals out and be honest about it. Otherwise, a classical bicycle is the better fit in many ways.
- lheck 4y ago
  Let's forget about the solar cells (there's not that many on this bike) - e-bikes really are extremely eco-friendly. Your points are not correct and I want to point out why: > It's expensive It's cheap. An e-bike like this costs as much as some of the extras on a car. > it's not going to do much good for your health This is just incorrect - if you have an e-bike, you are way more likely to use it compared to a muscle powered bike, and you are going to ride longer distances with it. In sum, the positive health effects of using an e-bike regularily are larger than using a muscle-powered one. > compare it to a reasonably light "ordinary" bike, driven by muscle power, this is nowhere near "eco" if you count calories, and are on an average omnivore diet, e-bikes are actually more efficient than muscle-powered bikes. it's eco. > leave the pedals out and be honest about it ?? not sure what you mean with honest? > in a few years when it's out of fashion opinion: e-bikes are not a fashion, but here to stay. it's far less trash than a car. The gasoline-electro argument is kind of true for cars though, electric cars are not eco, just slightly better than gas cars.
  - quailfarmer 4y ago
    > the positive health effects of using an e-bike regularly are larger than using a muscle-powered one That might be true for someone, but it's a bit of a leap in general
    - 4y ago
topher515 4y ago
I had a buddy who built a solar e-bike for Burning Man; it had a sort-of roof on top, so it had room for something like four of those flexible 100 watt solar panels[1]. He told me his biggest build-regret was the solar panels. Mounting the solar panels on the bike makes everything much more complicated—which means it's more expensive and more delicate. And even if it doesn't shake itself apart, you're constantly thinking about where and how you're parking it. The right solution for solar powered biking is to keep the solar panels off the bike, fixed in place, facing the right direction. Then you can use lots of cheap, heavy panels, and just plug the damn bike in when you get home. [1] for example: https://www.amazon.com/Flexible-Monocrystalline-Bendable-Semi-Flexible-Off-Grid/dp/B07TDK1KPF https://www.amazon.com/Flexible-Monocrystalline-Bendable-Sem...
- prmoustache 4y ago
  That rad power bike in the article is already quite shitty with the high cargo position compared to a more sensible approach to put cargo in a front bed. This bike seems to have been designed to carry kids at the bike, not haul stuff.
  - scosman 4y ago
    That's a bit negative. Like you say, better at carrying kids than stuff (which is how I use mine), but that doesn't make it "quite shitty". I own this bike: it's very good at carrying kids, pretty good at carrying stuff, and exceptionally good value. Rad has been shrinking the back wheel to lower cargo position as iterations progress, which is nice.
  - foxyv 4y ago
    They make a front rack for it as well. But it isn't a bakfiets. But it's also about 1/4 the price. I've owned a RadCity before and it wasn't shitty at all. The dang thing is still running after 7k miles of rough treatment and crashes. The only problem I really had is with the spoke pattern on the drive wheels. They used way too thick spokes that didn't like being bent at such a sharp angle.
- throwaway5959 4y ago
agumonkey 4y ago
Could have mounted the solar panel on top of the front cargo, slightly tilted for "aerodynamics". Or maybe added two panels total. I wonder if there's progress on thin film PV, so that you could have flexible bike solar body.
goodpoint 4y ago
Sounds more like the use-case for a lightweight rickshaw. The roof would fit a big solar panel.
avar 4y ago
I've looked into this "solar powered" solution for my heavy (Urban Arrow) cargo bike for those occasional long trips, and have always come to the conclusion that it's basically a overly costly and inconvenient idea overall. The better solution is to lug around a charger, and failing that to simply carry around another battery to extend your range. But the immediate problem is that extra E-Bike batteries are very expensive. Each OEM has their own little monopoly with their own chargers and customized plugs, and charges through the nose for replacements. My E-bike uses a Bosch, and e.g. [1] has replacement cells for it that retail at 1/3 or even 1/4 of the full battery pack of the same capacity. The casing, charge controller etc. should add some cost, but not that much. I think a much more practical solution is to work on bridging that gap, another commentator commented out that USB PD is stepping up to the 48v range from 20v. But E-Bike batteries are so expensive that even if you had to carry everything with you to up-voltage portable batteries to 220v, carry the OEM charger, and then plug it into a portable standard outlet you might still come way ahead v.s. buying another OEM battery. 1. https://www.aliexpress.com/item/33047384848.html https://www.aliexpress.com/item/33047384848.html
- Loudergood 4y ago
  We desperately need standardization in medium sized batteries like tools and bikes that are easily replaced.
- Xylakant 4y ago
  Essentially you're looking for something like that: https://de.ecoflow.com/products/river-2-max-portable-power-station https://de.ecoflow.com/products/river-2-max-portable-power-s... - but the price point is in a similar range, and the package is substantially more chunky (inverter, ...). The issue is that I could not find any charger for bosch bike batteries that would work of USB-C PD. That would essentially cut down the package - no need for an inverter, ...
  - avar 4y ago
    Thanks, at €599.00 that's the same price as a mid-range Bosch PowerPack replacement, and that doesn't include the €150 charger for it. You'd need to stop to charge, but that's usually not an issues on longer trips. It's insane that this is even a viable option, but that's how overpriced these batteries are.
nashashmi 4y ago
Might as well be wind powered.
poopbutt7 4y ago
lol, y'all have some high standards for some dude tinkering on a bike in his garage.
wazoox 4y ago
If you want real DIY: https://vhelio.org/ https://vhelio.org/
TheDesolate0 4y ago
[dead]

103 points by lxm 4y ago

It's RadWagon 4 with white paint job, upgraded brakes/power controller, and solar panel at the top of the stock roof. Not quite what I expected when I read the title. Btw, the panel is 50W, and I assume the battery is stock, 672 Wh. That's 14+ hours of best-case sunlight to recharge fully. I wonder how practical is it.

jillesvangurp 4y ago
You don't have to fully charge it unless you fully drain the battery. Which on most days you probably won't. You can still plug it in when you do. With solar that just happens a little less often. Which is convenient and very practical.
sandworm101 4y ago
It isnt practical. The trickle from the solar panels is basically irrelevant. It would be far more efficient to attach the panels to a grid, somewhere they can operate coninuously with a view of the sun, then charge the bike off the grid. But virtue signaling is often more important than practicality.
- poopbutt7 4y ago
  Agreed- another waste of space on the front page. This hobbyist should be embarrassed by their folly.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- ThatPlayer 4y ago
  I think it's a matter of scale. That's a 50W panel, it would relatively expensive to get an inverter and an inspection/plan from your power company just to be able to use the grid as a battery. Also it would be less efficient because of the AC conversion. My personal preferred way to do this would be to have a stationary battery to charge up, and better solar panel positioning like you say, but that costs a bit more for that stationary battery. And if the only thing that battery/solar setup is used for is charging the bike, and you don't actually need more power then all that extra power is just gonna go to waste.
  - fomine3 4y ago
    Yeah, such cost is my blocker to install cheap solar panel on my home. On-grid solar system equipment is expensive but I don't have any good use case for unstable off-grid solar. If I drive e-bike, charging removable batteries by off-grid solar looks perfect use case, but I always drive a car.
    - ThatPlayer 4y ago
      The solar inverter for my off-grid setup does allow for fallback to grid power if the solar and battery are out. So I would be able to do stable "partially solar" power without having to dump power back into the grid. Still not sure it's worth the cost, as you'd need a very consistent power draw to make a return, or batteries that make the return take even longer. Still a fun project though, and not something I built to make a return on.
  - Scoundreller 4y ago
    I'm waiting for someone to build a grid-solar hybrid refrigerator/freezer that can attach to a 50w or 100w PV running at "low-voltage" ie: < 48V. No permit/electrician required, no grid-intertie inspection required. Modern fridges are often inverter drive, so should be easier to incorporate a DC power source. And they generally run all the time because they do variable-frequency drive. Best part, it keeps working during power outages. Extra points for putting on a USB charging port (only works during the day, but still!).
    - fbdab103 4y ago
      I am waiting for the same, but with air conditioners. A crappy $100-$200 window unit, plugged into an equally baseline solar panel. Free opex cooling that could be installed for basically no work.
      - irq 4y ago
        An air conditioner - even a crappy $200 window unit - will draw an order of magnitude more power than OP’s 50 watt refrigerator. You’ll need much more solar, either more panels or bigger panels (likely both).
- Rebelgecko 4y ago
  It's sounds like this IS (mostly) a case of charging the bike "off the grid". If the trickle charging changes the usability of the bike from "charge it every 2-3 days" to "only charge it when there's multiple cloudy days in a row", that's a huge step up in convenience.
  - ilyt 4y ago
    The problem is that the way it was done looks pretty inconvenient with panel being high up and potentially in the way
- renewiltord 4y ago
  Hobby DIY is a fun thing for many people to try. But spending all your time online is often more important than building.
jonas21 4y ago
The RadWagon 4 has a listed range of 45 miles. In practice, people seem to be getting closer to 30 miles. The modifications look like they'll add some drag, so let's say it gets 20-25 miles per charge. If you leave the bike out in the sun all day, you can probably add 10-15 miles of range, which would be practical for some people (not everyone of course, but for many people, an e-bike wouldn't be practical even with infinite range).
- kurthr 4y ago
  I don't know where you're talking about, but only Arizona and SoCal get close to the 7-8 Peak Sun Equivalent Hours you'd need to get. But yeah 7-10mi realistically in most of the US or 5mi in the winter. That's not terrible, but it does require pretty perfect alignment and no shaddowing.
ehnto 4y ago
For a daily short commute it is probably enough, it would be for my daily commute of 40kms total on a pedelec. This is also a pedelec, so the practical answer is that it doesn't matter in any dimension since it can be charged from a wall when it's not sunny and it can be pedaled if it runs out, but it would be fun to know how much they have to plug it in. In a pedelec after a certain point you and the battery are working together to maintain speed and it really doesn't take much battery. But there are so many variables that it's hard to talk about it meaningfully.
irjustin 4y ago
Feels like it would be better to have 2 batteries, dedicated charging "shed", and fast swap ability? Storing the bike outdoors continuously in the sun, wears on the condition considerably faster than indoors. Having the solar panel attached makes for "all in one" articles, but seems rather limited on practicality for most people.
- Gigachad 4y ago
  It always is. But people get so stuck on this idea of lugging the panel around with you for some reason.
JKCalhoun 4y ago
Yeah, makes more sense to leave the solar panel in your backyard (saving some weight) and have spare battery always sitting on the solar charger. Then you can bring your bike inside, in the shade, etc. — not having to always find sunlight to park in. The only way bringing the solar panel with the bike makes sense is a multi-day ride. But as is being pointed out, you're going to be spending a lot more time sunbathing rather than biking under power.
- westurner 4y ago
  <wagon in tow> Yeah, Good call boss. The cost figures in this article about [rooftop,] wind do not take into account latest gen [Dyneema] ultralight rooftop solar: "Rooftop wind energy innovation claims 50% more energy than solar at same cost" (2022) https://pv-magazine-usa.com/2022/10/14/rooftop-wind-energy-innovation-claims-50-more-energy-than-solar-at-same-cost/ https://pv-magazine-usa.com/2022/10/14/rooftop-wind-energy-i... > The scalable, “#motionless” #WindEnergy unit can produce 50% more energy than rooftop solar at the same cost, said the company. > The technology leverages aerodynamics similar to #airfoils in a race car to capture and amplify each building’s airflow. The unit requires about 10% of the space required by solar panels and generates round-the-clock energy. Aeromine said unlike conventional wind turbines that are noisy, visually intrusive, and dangerous to migratory birds, the patented system is motionless and virtually silent. > An #Aeromine system typically consists of 20 to 40 units installed on the edge of a building facing the predominant wind direction. The company said the unit can minimize energy storage capacity needed to meet a building’s energy needs, producing energy in all weather conditions. With a small footprint on the roof, the unit can be combined with rooftop solar, providing a new tool in the toolkit for decarbonization and energy independence. "18 Times More Power: MIT Researchers Have Developed Ultrathin Lightweight Solar Cells" (2022) https://scitechdaily.com/18-times-more-power-mit-researchers-have-developed-ultrathin-lightweight-solar-cells/ https://scitechdaily.com/18-times-more-power-mit-researchers... : > When they tested the device, the MIT researchers found it could generate 730 watts of power per kilogram when freestanding and about 370 watts-per-kilogram if deployed on the high-strength Dyneema fabric, which is about 18 times more power-per-kilogram than conventional solar cells. > “A typical rooftop solar installation in Massachusetts is about 8,000 watts. To generate that same amount of power, our fabric photovoltaics would only add about 20 kilograms (44 pounds) to the roof of a house,” he says. > They also tested the durability of their devices and found that, even after rolling and unrolling a fabric solar panel more than 500 times, the cells still retained more than 90 percent of their initial power generation capabilities. E.g. Hyperlite Mountain Gear sells Dyneema ultralight backpacking packs and coats. There are Dyneema Patch Kits that work for various types of gear. Wise to look at Ultralight backpacking gear before buying regular camping gear. Solarcore Aerogel is warm and light and also in encased in PVA foam rubber which is like a new wet suit. https://twitter.com/westurner/status/1600820322567041024 https://twitter.com/westurner/status/1600820322567041024 Kayaking bags are waterproof, but are there yet Dyneema ones?
Schroedingersat 4y ago
I use a bike with a 400Wh battery for errands and social visits daily and charge it once a week running on eco or normal mode. My cargo trike which gets used a lot less has a 200W panel and I don't even have to think about parking it outside rather than in the shed, just the charge from parking durkng whatever errand is run means it comes back with higher charge than when it left if it is down from the parasitic drain.
jacquesm 4y ago
The way that controller and charger are mounted to the chassis without any real shock absorbing measures is asking for trouble, I've done something similar and I think that half the work was to make sure that shocks from the road on the frame did not make it to the electronics or the battery (and that system has worked well for about a year now). Also, the electronics are mounted out in the open and on top of a small bit of wood, that works well in the lab but if you're going to be biking and end up being rained on it may well cause issues, just using splash proof connectors isn't enough, you need to protect the electronics from the elements by eliminating direct contact with the elements. Much like in a car: all of the connectors under the hood are waterproof and they are under the hood, not out in the weather. That said, it's a neat idea.
- andreareina 4y ago
  How did you manage the shocks? I've been thinking about a conversation for my commuter (more for the diy aspect than really wanting an electric)
  - Hextinium 4y ago
    For most shocks a little foam goes a long way, having the electronics be bolted to a cushioned box or having the electronics laying in foam (with appropriate cooling) helps a lot. Source: I cushion my robots this way, haven't gotten to the ebike yet.
    - jacquesm 4y ago
      Bikes operate in a pretty tough environment, especially potholes and vibration need some careful thinking when it comes to the effect on your design. Potting is best but then you have to be very careful about managing the heat. Your robot experience will serve you well when building an e-bike but beware of the weather, heat, rain, snow, ice and UV are all pretty rough on electronics, enclosures and wiring.
  - jacquesm 4y ago
    The whole is mounted in a trespa box in such a way that there is a few millimeters of shock mount in all three directions (very high density foam) and all empty spaces are completely filled up. That box in turn is then mounted to the frame again in a similar way, I tested the whole using dummy weight and the accelerometer in a phone to see what happened when jumping a pothole at speed (which is about the worst that you could do to this bike) and it came in well under the limits and also tested it on a very rough path to see what it would do when subjected to vibration. The front fork is a very nice 'Fox' unit with adjustable springs which have been set to be in the middle of their travel range when the bike is fully loaded and so that it never bottoms out even under the worst conditions. On the whole it isn't perfect but good enough for many years, I've run this setup for a year now and have once (at 5K km) inspected the wiring and the battery welds and everything seems to be holding up quite well. Things to be careful with: overpressuring the tires would reduce the amount of shock absorbing capacity quite a bit (and is definitely not recommended with tires this wide anyway), the rolling resistance of these is fairly high but that is just how they are designed. Then, obviously there is bumping in to things and falling at speed, which fortunately hasn't happened. But if it did I would immediately consider the battery pack a write-off in spite of being super well protected. I've done about 10K on it now and when it hits 20 I'll take the whole thing apart to see if there is any wear that is hidden from view. I'm mostly concerned with the battery welds and the wiring, those are the weak points, even with all of the wiring contained within the enclosure, routed carefully to never cross over any other wires and with the welds checked using a FLIR during a pretty rapid discharge (twice as fast as the motor could ever do). The OP has mounted the charge controller and the motor controller to a piece of wood (which will flex a bit but not much) which in turn appears to be protected in only one axis (side-to-side) and is either free to move or rigid in the other two. The wiring runs 'cold' without any kind of extra protection through the wood that it is mounted on. The frame is unsprung as far as I can tell, which especially for the front is not a luxury on a bike this heavy, which makes bike+battery the unsprung weight (I think I see a saddle pin with a rubber mount so there is some flex there). That battery box may have some foam in it or some other suspension for the battery which is good. As long as he's on good asphalt this setup will work, but as soon as you go on less perfect roads I think that it will give trouble over time. DIY stuff like this looks great on the day you build it if you don't build it for abuse, but exposed wiring is dangerous and vibration as well as the weather are going to be rough on this. I'm curious what it will look like a year from now if used intensively, and also how the wire runs are on the other side of that board.
discordance 4y ago
A larger panel could easily charge that battery and have the added benefit of shading the rider from sun and rain. Lightweight (4lbs/2kg), flexible 100W-300W panels exist that are pretty cheap.
moffkalast 4y ago
> Btw, the panel is 50W In their dreams maybe, that looks more like 40W sized poly panel, and it'll never get close to that unless they're driving it along the equator with active cooling on the other side.
clnq 4y ago
You rarely use 100% of the battery on these things because they are heavy to pedal manually. Range anxiety makes most people use 80% at most daily. I have few Rad Runners at home and they basically never run below 20%. So getting +50% charge in a day is not too bad.

pengaru 4y ago

Surprised to see such small diameter tires on something desperate for low rolling resistance to make those precious KWs go further...

ianburrell 4y ago
Some long tail cargo bikes have smaller back wheel to keep the center of gravity lower when carrying cargo. I’ve seen small back and normal front, or both small like with the RadPower 4 this is based on.

morganw 4y ago

For a bike with a more reasonable solar area (with tilt functionality) for a significant contribution to motive power, check out https://ebikes.ca/suntrip.html https://ebikes.ca/suntrip.html

JKCalhoun 4y ago
That's clever. They get it.
- chillingeffect 4y ago
  That is a great design configuration. I've seen a few models like this at Burning Man. Great mix of cargo, charging, balance, speed, etc. I was so inspired by seeing them I wrote a paper designing an entire town based around vehicles like this :) I mean except for the 2nd passenger with rowing & leg press interface, that's......forward thinking!
  - KuiN 4y ago
    Did you ever share that paper publicly? I'd be interested in reading it
tppiotrowski 4y ago
The Lightyear One [1] is supposed to be a solar powered car but I think it misses an important distinction. Cars spend a lot of time parked and during this time they can unfold a large capacity of solar panels like petals of a flower (similar to how spacecraft deploy once they leave the fairing). You can cover the windshield and all the other windows, for example. Instead, the Lightyear One has focused on streamlining the solar panels in an aerodynamic way that doesn't take advantage of extra power when parked. [1] https://lightyear.one/lightyear-0 https://lightyear.one/lightyear-0
- tomcam 4y ago
  > they can unfold a large capacity of solar panels like petals of a flower Feels like vandalism or just accidental collisions would be real problems

Scoundreller 4y ago

Kinda surprised nobody has started building out solar-powered bicycle charging-locking stations. Could be cool to have at a camp-site.

gorbypark 4y ago
Hopefully eBikes/scooters will start to standardize their charging interfaces. If I am not mistaken the new USB-C PD standard can pump out 240W(48V) and the older PD standard can do 100W(20V). I think that would be the most obvious solution, and with the new USB PD standard going up to 48v, that would cover most models without any extra voltage regulation circuitry. I semi recently moved from small town Canada to big city Europe and decided to go car free and just use an electric scooter. If I could plug it in (and not have to lug around a charger) and lock it up somewhere, that would be amazing. I get about 15k-20km per charge, which is more or less perfect since I can go anywhere in the city and back home, but it would be nice to top up on some occasions.
- pastage 4y ago
  Yes top up charging would be great! I frequently do 90km runs on my ebike and it would be great not having to worry. Also it would make it easier for me to loiter in shopping areas and such. I believe 240W charge is too little considering the motor usually draws atleast that. I have always thought high speed charge should be thing.
  - gorbypark 4y ago
    Yeah, the higher the speed the better! My current scooter (Xiaomi M365 Pro 2) only charges at 80 watts, though. The charger is rated for 42V output, which I believe means it's a 36V battery. I'm not very knowledgeable on the eBike side of things but a quick look at Bosch's site shows they seem to do 4A or 6A "fast" charging on their 36V batteries. 424=168 or 426=252Watts, so it seems like PD 3.1 could charge at regular speeds and at about 90% of fast charge speeds. Not bad, really!

s3graham 4y ago

Suntrip has had lots of great ones. I love Justin and Anne-Sophie's rig from a few years ago: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XIMM25unnU8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XIMM25unnU8 . If you check their channel, their small company does bespoke conversion work and they profile/demo some other interesting riders too.

fulafel 4y ago

Nice demonstration of what efficient mobility can look like even without hi tech light materials etc. You could put more panels on the sides. I wonder if there's a two sided panel that could take sunlight from either side, you could have it on one side only and get the light through the wheel and spokes from the other side depending how it's facing.

GoToRO 4y ago
All panels are kind of two sided. And now there are newer ones that are trully two sided but they are not widespread yet.

ck2 4y ago

Having ridden bikes for errands all my life that bike is way too heavy and lacks all agility needed to ride the broken poorly-maintained roads these days with super heavy cars and SUVs (with drivers barely paying attention at all). Bike also doesn't have suspension. You will feel everything with all that weight. Never put weight on the front wheel inhibiting fast turns and reaction time. Electric Tut-Tut with pedals might be more practical if ever allowed in bike lanes https://electrek.co/2023/02/02/i-bought-electric-rickshaw-tuk-tuk/ https://electrek.co/2023/02/02/i-bought-electric-rickshaw-tu...

fbdab103 4y ago
If he is using it to ferry children to and fro, I suspect he is prioritizing routes with significantly less risk of road hazards and heavy traffic. More pleasure-craft than ultimate utility.
- pastage 4y ago
  This is also how you get more people on bikes; build infrastructure that is actually useable by all. Oh how I fear the stroads so common in the US.
Xylakant 4y ago
I've not tested this specific one, but the balloon tires you see nowadays (Schwalbe Big Ben/Big Apple or similar) provide a pretty good amount of suspension and handle well on rough surfaces. Small wheels will be an issue if you're dealing with potholes. Agility is not going to save you with a passenger, so don't rely on that in the first place.

margalabargala 4y ago

Question about ebike controllers to anyone who knows. It seems odd that upgrading the controller would necessarily push more amperage through the motor; wouldn't a motor given a certain voltage simply pull amperage based on its internal resistance, so long as the controller was able to supply the power?

chillingeffect 4y ago
great question! I work on servo controllers, so I can talk a little bit about it. The short answer is most controllers regulate current. They do these by driving at varying levels of voltage, measuring the resulting current, and using that measurement to adjust the voltage until the desired current is attained. So the relative resistance of the motor doesn't matter much with respect to how much current will flow through it. In this case, I would assume the upgraded controller is able to drive a higher voltage in order to attained the increased current. The smaller controller likely has smaller, cheaper power transistors and related components, so it must limit itself to the maximum current (and power and heat) those transistors can handle. BTW, the resistance of motors these days is relatively low... They can likely not handle the full amperage from the battery for very long. They simply must use controllers to switch the current.
- margalabargala 4y ago
  Got it, thanks. The reason I ask is, I'm working on an ebike that had a cheap undersized controller installed such that if I drive it at full throttle long enough, the controller overheats and shuts off. My plan was to simply upgrade to a controller with a much higher amperage rating, removing that as a concern. But it sounds like doing this could just burn out the motor? I think I can change the software of the controller to limit maximum power output, I'll have to do that I guess. I would not have expected a controller capable of 60A to attempt to actually force 60A through a 48V, 1000W motor if the throttle was held down; I would have expected it to apply battery-level voltage to the motor (or do an internal step up/down to a constant 48V) and simply permit the motor to draw whatever amperage it pleased at that in-spec voltage.

greenaboveall 4y ago

I appreciate the technical challenge and creativity. But is it really that "green"? The battery, the solar cells, the extra heavy frame, and in a few years when it's out of fashion, all that is trash. Sure, compared to a gasoline driven motorcycle it's maybe better for the environment after enough miles, considering the whole lifecycle. Not by much though. But if you compare it to a reasonably light "ordinary" bike, driven by muscle power, this is nowhere near "eco". It's heavy, it's expensive, and it's not going to do much good for your health. If you want a vehicle with an engine, leave the pedals out and be honest about it. Otherwise, a classical bicycle is the better fit in many ways.

lheck 4y ago
Let's forget about the solar cells (there's not that many on this bike) - e-bikes really are extremely eco-friendly. Your points are not correct and I want to point out why: > It's expensive It's cheap. An e-bike like this costs as much as some of the extras on a car. > it's not going to do much good for your health This is just incorrect - if you have an e-bike, you are way more likely to use it compared to a muscle powered bike, and you are going to ride longer distances with it. In sum, the positive health effects of using an e-bike regularily are larger than using a muscle-powered one. > compare it to a reasonably light "ordinary" bike, driven by muscle power, this is nowhere near "eco" if you count calories, and are on an average omnivore diet, e-bikes are actually more efficient than muscle-powered bikes. it's eco. > leave the pedals out and be honest about it ?? not sure what you mean with honest? > in a few years when it's out of fashion opinion: e-bikes are not a fashion, but here to stay. it's far less trash than a car. The gasoline-electro argument is kind of true for cars though, electric cars are not eco, just slightly better than gas cars.
- quailfarmer 4y ago
  > the positive health effects of using an e-bike regularly are larger than using a muscle-powered one That might be true for someone, but it's a bit of a leap in general
  - 4y ago

topher515 4y ago

I had a buddy who built a solar e-bike for Burning Man; it had a sort-of roof on top, so it had room for something like four of those flexible 100 watt solar panels[1]. He told me his biggest build-regret was the solar panels. Mounting the solar panels on the bike makes everything much more complicated—which means it's more expensive and more delicate. And even if it doesn't shake itself apart, you're constantly thinking about where and how you're parking it. The right solution for solar powered biking is to keep the solar panels off the bike, fixed in place, facing the right direction. Then you can use lots of cheap, heavy panels, and just plug the damn bike in when you get home. [1] for example: https://www.amazon.com/Flexible-Monocrystalline-Bendable-Semi-Flexible-Off-Grid/dp/B07TDK1KPF https://www.amazon.com/Flexible-Monocrystalline-Bendable-Sem...

prmoustache 4y ago
That rad power bike in the article is already quite shitty with the high cargo position compared to a more sensible approach to put cargo in a front bed. This bike seems to have been designed to carry kids at the bike, not haul stuff.
- scosman 4y ago
  That's a bit negative. Like you say, better at carrying kids than stuff (which is how I use mine), but that doesn't make it "quite shitty". I own this bike: it's very good at carrying kids, pretty good at carrying stuff, and exceptionally good value. Rad has been shrinking the back wheel to lower cargo position as iterations progress, which is nice.
- foxyv 4y ago
  They make a front rack for it as well. But it isn't a bakfiets. But it's also about 1/4 the price. I've owned a RadCity before and it wasn't shitty at all. The dang thing is still running after 7k miles of rough treatment and crashes. The only problem I really had is with the spoke pattern on the drive wheels. They used way too thick spokes that didn't like being bent at such a sharp angle.
throwaway5959 4y ago

agumonkey 4y ago

Could have mounted the solar panel on top of the front cargo, slightly tilted for "aerodynamics". Or maybe added two panels total. I wonder if there's progress on thin film PV, so that you could have flexible bike solar body.

goodpoint 4y ago

Sounds more like the use-case for a lightweight rickshaw. The roof would fit a big solar panel.

avar 4y ago

I've looked into this "solar powered" solution for my heavy (Urban Arrow) cargo bike for those occasional long trips, and have always come to the conclusion that it's basically a overly costly and inconvenient idea overall. The better solution is to lug around a charger, and failing that to simply carry around another battery to extend your range. But the immediate problem is that extra E-Bike batteries are very expensive. Each OEM has their own little monopoly with their own chargers and customized plugs, and charges through the nose for replacements. My E-bike uses a Bosch, and e.g. [1] has replacement cells for it that retail at 1/3 or even 1/4 of the full battery pack of the same capacity. The casing, charge controller etc. should add some cost, but not that much. I think a much more practical solution is to work on bridging that gap, another commentator commented out that USB PD is stepping up to the 48v range from 20v. But E-Bike batteries are so expensive that even if you had to carry everything with you to up-voltage portable batteries to 220v, carry the OEM charger, and then plug it into a portable standard outlet you might still come way ahead v.s. buying another OEM battery. 1. https://www.aliexpress.com/item/33047384848.html https://www.aliexpress.com/item/33047384848.html

Loudergood 4y ago
We desperately need standardization in medium sized batteries like tools and bikes that are easily replaced.
Xylakant 4y ago
Essentially you're looking for something like that: https://de.ecoflow.com/products/river-2-max-portable-power-station https://de.ecoflow.com/products/river-2-max-portable-power-s... - but the price point is in a similar range, and the package is substantially more chunky (inverter, ...). The issue is that I could not find any charger for bosch bike batteries that would work of USB-C PD. That would essentially cut down the package - no need for an inverter, ...
- avar 4y ago
  Thanks, at €599.00 that's the same price as a mid-range Bosch PowerPack replacement, and that doesn't include the €150 charger for it. You'd need to stop to charge, but that's usually not an issues on longer trips. It's insane that this is even a viable option, but that's how overpriced these batteries are.

nashashmi 4y ago

Might as well be wind powered.

poopbutt7 4y ago

lol, y'all have some high standards for some dude tinkering on a bike in his garage.

wazoox 4y ago

If you want real DIY: https://vhelio.org/ https://vhelio.org/

TheDesolate0 4y ago

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