5 ms·

Brilliant move. Show what is possible. Let individual developers download the source & build themselves, and run it. Make it real, make the only obstruction a l

Brilliant move. Show what is possible. Let individual developers download the source & build themselves, and run it. Make it real, make the only obstruction a legal one, one that is increasingly full of holes as a small exterior/outside hobbyist community bypasses the longstanding trenchancy Apple has dug, has moated themselves in with. Give people that first whiff of freedom. And if someday hopefully some of the anti-trust anti-competitive legal moats do get torn down, Google will be ready.

EMIRELADERO 4y ago
This has already happened. The walls have already been torn down. The EU's Digital Markets Act has made it mandatory for Apple to implement those changes by Q1 2024
- voakbasda 4y ago
  Anyone care to speculate as to whether Apple will take that opportunity to permit users in other regions that same liberty? Personally, I would not bet on that outcome without similar legislation forcing the issue.
  - EMIRELADERO 4y ago
    They probably will. Google "Brussels Effect"
    - voakbasda 4y ago
      I can see how that applies for hardware manufacturers that don't want to build multiple versions of their products; however, software can easily be region locked using a simple flag without the same economic consequences.
      - sofixa 4y ago
        The issue with that is the resulting negative PR. And of course other countries are taking notes and sometimes use EU regulations for inspiration.
        satellites 4y ago
        Most people don’t give a shit about 3rd party app stores. I doubt 90% of iPhone users even know this is happening. (I say this as an iPhone user myself). So, I’m not sure negative PR is that much of a motivator.
      - cute_boi 4y ago
        I will just ask somebody to purchase iphone from Eu.
        foepys 4y ago
        You might also need an EU iCloud account and an EU SIM. There are many ways Apple could region lock it and the source of the iPhone would probably the least likely.
      - yyyk 4y ago
        Note this already happened with some software, e.g. Windows EU editions excluding Windows Media Player.
  - hortense 4y ago
    No chance of Apple implementing this outside of the EU if they are not forced to. They are getting billions from Google every year because Safari is the most used browser on iOS, and they will do what is necessary to make this last for as long as possible.
    - krrrh 4y ago
      Chrome for iOS switching to Blink from WebKit will have next to zero effect on Safari’s share of iOS browsing.
      - serial_dev 4y ago
        Only if you assume that the change will not cause people to switch from Safari to alternative browsers, eg Chrome.
        rekoil 4y ago
        Over time it will, but not at the speed we saw Chrome take over on desktop back in the days.
lxgr 4y ago
As far as I know, JIT is disabled on iOS at the moment, so one thing developers would notice right away is abysmal JavaScript performance. (Early versions of V8 didn't even have an interpreting or bytecode path, to my knowledge, so it wouldn't even run without major modifications!)
- meindnoch 4y ago
  >so one thing developers would notice right away is abysmal JavaScript performance That's actually a good thing! If a substantial chunk of iOS users would use third-party browsers without JS JIT, then webdevs would be forced to better optimize their sites, because the perf ceiling would be lower on these browsers. This then would lead to stellar performance for those who stick with Safari which does have JIT! Kind of how using an M1 is so good today, because there's still a large number of Intel machines out there, so devs can't yet afford releasing software that's only usable on M1 from a cpu/energy point of view.
  - lxgr 4y ago
    Not sure if you’re kidding, but if not – why would users switch in the first place, if that means abysmal performance?
    - meindnoch 4y ago
      Because Google would be pushing it hard? E.g. when you click a link in the YouTube app, it doesn't open it in Safari, rather it shows you a "helpful" dark-pattern prompt about opening it with: - Chrome (mind you, I don't have it installed, so this would send me to the AppStore) - the "Google" app (again, not installed) - Safari (which does not open Safari, rather an in-app WKWebView, so that Sundar can still milk your precious eyeballs) - and finally at the bottom the "Default browser app" (this is what you want) Of course, there's no setting to save this choice once and for all, so this is done each and every time you try opening a link in the YouTube app. Wait, actually, I'm 99% sure it would suddenly remember your choice if you had installed one of their browsers. From that moment they would duly open all links in Chrome/Google, without this annoying prompt. I bet every Google app does this on iOS to get you install their crap. Disgusting practice.
jfoster 4y ago
I don't think Mozilla & Google both start working on iOS browser engines just to show what's possible. They might be speculatively developing these, but I think it's definitely based on an expectation that they have a really good chance of shipping these browser engines.

EMIRELADERO 4y ago

This has already happened. The walls have already been torn down. The EU's Digital Markets Act has made it mandatory for Apple to implement those changes by Q1 2024

voakbasda 4y ago
Anyone care to speculate as to whether Apple will take that opportunity to permit users in other regions that same liberty? Personally, I would not bet on that outcome without similar legislation forcing the issue.
- EMIRELADERO 4y ago
  They probably will. Google "Brussels Effect"
  - voakbasda 4y ago
    I can see how that applies for hardware manufacturers that don't want to build multiple versions of their products; however, software can easily be region locked using a simple flag without the same economic consequences.
    - sofixa 4y ago
      The issue with that is the resulting negative PR. And of course other countries are taking notes and sometimes use EU regulations for inspiration.
      - satellites 4y ago
        Most people don’t give a shit about 3rd party app stores. I doubt 90% of iPhone users even know this is happening. (I say this as an iPhone user myself). So, I’m not sure negative PR is that much of a motivator.
    - cute_boi 4y ago
      I will just ask somebody to purchase iphone from Eu.
      - foepys 4y ago
        You might also need an EU iCloud account and an EU SIM. There are many ways Apple could region lock it and the source of the iPhone would probably the least likely.
    - yyyk 4y ago
      Note this already happened with some software, e.g. Windows EU editions excluding Windows Media Player.
- hortense 4y ago
  No chance of Apple implementing this outside of the EU if they are not forced to. They are getting billions from Google every year because Safari is the most used browser on iOS, and they will do what is necessary to make this last for as long as possible.
  - krrrh 4y ago
    Chrome for iOS switching to Blink from WebKit will have next to zero effect on Safari’s share of iOS browsing.
    - serial_dev 4y ago
      Only if you assume that the change will not cause people to switch from Safari to alternative browsers, eg Chrome.
      - rekoil 4y ago
        Over time it will, but not at the speed we saw Chrome take over on desktop back in the days.

lxgr 4y ago

As far as I know, JIT is disabled on iOS at the moment, so one thing developers would notice right away is abysmal JavaScript performance. (Early versions of V8 didn't even have an interpreting or bytecode path, to my knowledge, so it wouldn't even run without major modifications!)

meindnoch 4y ago
>so one thing developers would notice right away is abysmal JavaScript performance That's actually a good thing! If a substantial chunk of iOS users would use third-party browsers without JS JIT, then webdevs would be forced to better optimize their sites, because the perf ceiling would be lower on these browsers. This then would lead to stellar performance for those who stick with Safari which does have JIT! Kind of how using an M1 is so good today, because there's still a large number of Intel machines out there, so devs can't yet afford releasing software that's only usable on M1 from a cpu/energy point of view.
- lxgr 4y ago
  Not sure if you’re kidding, but if not – why would users switch in the first place, if that means abysmal performance?
  - meindnoch 4y ago
    Because Google would be pushing it hard? E.g. when you click a link in the YouTube app, it doesn't open it in Safari, rather it shows you a "helpful" dark-pattern prompt about opening it with: - Chrome (mind you, I don't have it installed, so this would send me to the AppStore) - the "Google" app (again, not installed) - Safari (which does not open Safari, rather an in-app WKWebView, so that Sundar can still milk your precious eyeballs) - and finally at the bottom the "Default browser app" (this is what you want) Of course, there's no setting to save this choice once and for all, so this is done each and every time you try opening a link in the YouTube app. Wait, actually, I'm 99% sure it would suddenly remember your choice if you had installed one of their browsers. From that moment they would duly open all links in Chrome/Google, without this annoying prompt. I bet every Google app does this on iOS to get you install their crap. Disgusting practice.

jfoster 4y ago

I don't think Mozilla & Google both start working on iOS browser engines just to show what's possible. They might be speculatively developing these, but I think it's definitely based on an expectation that they have a really good chance of shipping these browser engines.