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This is tragic for those involved, but I really don't understand how there were 6700+ people working on Zoom. I feel like the CEO should be under review by the

This is tragic for those involved, but I really don't understand how there were 6700+ people working on Zoom. I feel like the CEO should be under review by the board for allowing this to happen and there should be further investigations into how they even arrived at this point because this is just bananas.

lxgr 4y ago
> the CEO should be under review by the board for allowing this to happen Unfortunately, "all the other CEOs were doing it too" will probably hold up extremely well as a justification – in the unlikely case it ever comes to that.
- ActionHank 4y ago
  If there is fat to cut that means they were paying staff to do work that was unnecessary or wasteful which is money out of investor's pockets.
  - lxgr 4y ago
    "Unnecessary or wasteful" is as subjective and context/environment-dependent a judgement as it gets. Other than that, the sometimes toxic dynamics of sudden windfalls in funding have also been discussed here at length: Paradoxically, not spending investors' money can sometimes be considered worse than wasting it on moonshot projects (or even outright on fancy office furniture and eye-catching employee perks).
    - disgruntledphd2 4y ago
      I work for a startup that raised a bunch of money and hasn't spent most of it. It might have seemed bad last year, but I'm sure their investors have come round to the idea now ;)
- tshaddox 4y ago
  It’s likely also exactly what the board would have wanted or even demanded when the hiring was happening.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
jeffwask 4y ago
This is one of the layoffs where I go... yeah you really did over hire WTF were you thinking. How do you even effectively onboard that many people as a percentage of existing staff?
- anonymouskimmer 4y ago
  I've never worked in customer support, but if they're customer support people wouldn't they just get something like a binder with questions and answers, and some flowcharts?
  - jeffwask 4y ago
    Back in the long long ago, I worked in a call center and we doubled the staff. It was a lot of of work, training, equipment, leadership, realignment of L2... it was still a lot.
mjr00 4y ago
99% chance the board was also pushing for massive hiring to focus on growth during the pandemic and the zero-interest rate era, and 99% chance they're pushing for layoffs and focus on operating profits now that we're in the expensive money era. The board will review the CEO and say "yes this is exactly what we wanted you to do, thank you."
- MuffinFlavored 4y ago
  How long is it expected for the expensive money era to end? aka, don't we have SOME insight into the fact that the fed will probably be done hiking around the 5.00%-5.25% range soon, and then either hold it there for maybe 6 months before doing cuts? how long can the Fed really keep rates at 5% despite the pressure of... wall street? the economy's well being (despite it being too dependent on cheap capital)? how much higher can they go above 5%? i thought the consensus was "not much" / "the fed says one thing and nobody really believes they'll be strong enough to do it"
  - mjr00 4y ago
    Nobody has a crystal ball. The last time inflation was this big of a problem in the west (~1980) rates touched over 20% and stayed above 10% for multiple years. What makes you so sure that 5% is the limit, or that there will be cuts after 6 months?
    - MuffinFlavored 4y ago
      https://www.cmegroup.com/markets/interest-rates/cme-fedwatch-tool.html https://www.cmegroup.com/markets/interest-rates/cme-fedwatch... This stupid, basically gambling insights tool. > The CME FedWatch Tool is a tool used by traders and investors to track the probability of interest rate changes by the Federal Reserve (Fed). It uses Fed funds futures prices traded at the Chicago Mercantile Exchange (CME) to calculate the market's expectations for the future direction of interest rates. > The data represented by the CME FedWatch Tool represents the market's perception and expectation of future Fed decisions on interest rates. It is not a prediction made by the Fed, nor is it an official statement by the Fed on future interest rate plans. > It is difficult to assess the accuracy of the CME FedWatch Tool overall as it can be influenced by many factors including market speculation, economic data releases, and changes in global events. Some market participants may find it to be a useful tool to understand market sentiment, while others may consider it to be speculative at best. Ultimately, the accuracy of the tool can only be determined in hindsight, after the Fed has actually made its interest rate decisions. I believe the Fed also releases what they call a dotplot https://www.federalreserve.gov/monetarypolicy/files/fomcprojtabl20221214.pdf https://www.federalreserve.gov/monetarypolicy/files/fomcproj... On page 4 you can see that they have rates forecasted as coming down 2024, 2025, etc.
outworlder 4y ago
How is it difficult to understand? It's not 6700 engineers, it's all the support staff. I can easily budget 1k people just to support all compliance activities and sales in order to be able to sell to governments.
alchemist1e9 4y ago
Totally agree. Would be fascinating to see some breakdown by job title of those 6700 employees.

lxgr 4y ago

> the CEO should be under review by the board for allowing this to happen Unfortunately, "all the other CEOs were doing it too" will probably hold up extremely well as a justification – in the unlikely case it ever comes to that.

ActionHank 4y ago
If there is fat to cut that means they were paying staff to do work that was unnecessary or wasteful which is money out of investor's pockets.
- lxgr 4y ago
  "Unnecessary or wasteful" is as subjective and context/environment-dependent a judgement as it gets. Other than that, the sometimes toxic dynamics of sudden windfalls in funding have also been discussed here at length: Paradoxically, not spending investors' money can sometimes be considered worse than wasting it on moonshot projects (or even outright on fancy office furniture and eye-catching employee perks).
  - disgruntledphd2 4y ago
    I work for a startup that raised a bunch of money and hasn't spent most of it. It might have seemed bad last year, but I'm sure their investors have come round to the idea now ;)
tshaddox 4y ago
It’s likely also exactly what the board would have wanted or even demanded when the hiring was happening.

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

jeffwask 4y ago

This is one of the layoffs where I go... yeah you really did over hire WTF were you thinking. How do you even effectively onboard that many people as a percentage of existing staff?

anonymouskimmer 4y ago
I've never worked in customer support, but if they're customer support people wouldn't they just get something like a binder with questions and answers, and some flowcharts?
- jeffwask 4y ago
  Back in the long long ago, I worked in a call center and we doubled the staff. It was a lot of of work, training, equipment, leadership, realignment of L2... it was still a lot.

mjr00 4y ago

99% chance the board was also pushing for massive hiring to focus on growth during the pandemic and the zero-interest rate era, and 99% chance they're pushing for layoffs and focus on operating profits now that we're in the expensive money era. The board will review the CEO and say "yes this is exactly what we wanted you to do, thank you."

MuffinFlavored 4y ago
How long is it expected for the expensive money era to end? aka, don't we have SOME insight into the fact that the fed will probably be done hiking around the 5.00%-5.25% range soon, and then either hold it there for maybe 6 months before doing cuts? how long can the Fed really keep rates at 5% despite the pressure of... wall street? the economy's well being (despite it being too dependent on cheap capital)? how much higher can they go above 5%? i thought the consensus was "not much" / "the fed says one thing and nobody really believes they'll be strong enough to do it"
- mjr00 4y ago
  Nobody has a crystal ball. The last time inflation was this big of a problem in the west (~1980) rates touched over 20% and stayed above 10% for multiple years. What makes you so sure that 5% is the limit, or that there will be cuts after 6 months?
  - MuffinFlavored 4y ago
    https://www.cmegroup.com/markets/interest-rates/cme-fedwatch-tool.html https://www.cmegroup.com/markets/interest-rates/cme-fedwatch... This stupid, basically gambling insights tool. > The CME FedWatch Tool is a tool used by traders and investors to track the probability of interest rate changes by the Federal Reserve (Fed). It uses Fed funds futures prices traded at the Chicago Mercantile Exchange (CME) to calculate the market's expectations for the future direction of interest rates. > The data represented by the CME FedWatch Tool represents the market's perception and expectation of future Fed decisions on interest rates. It is not a prediction made by the Fed, nor is it an official statement by the Fed on future interest rate plans. > It is difficult to assess the accuracy of the CME FedWatch Tool overall as it can be influenced by many factors including market speculation, economic data releases, and changes in global events. Some market participants may find it to be a useful tool to understand market sentiment, while others may consider it to be speculative at best. Ultimately, the accuracy of the tool can only be determined in hindsight, after the Fed has actually made its interest rate decisions. I believe the Fed also releases what they call a dotplot https://www.federalreserve.gov/monetarypolicy/files/fomcprojtabl20221214.pdf https://www.federalreserve.gov/monetarypolicy/files/fomcproj... On page 4 you can see that they have rates forecasted as coming down 2024, 2025, etc.

outworlder 4y ago

How is it difficult to understand? It's not 6700 engineers, it's all the support staff. I can easily budget 1k people just to support all compliance activities and sales in order to be able to sell to governments.

alchemist1e9 4y ago

Totally agree. Would be fascinating to see some breakdown by job title of those 6700 employees.