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> Banning books Everyone bans books. I am surprised this is such a meme because you probably won't find many supposed free speech activists also being in favor

> Banning books Everyone bans books. I am surprised this is such a meme because you probably won't find many supposed free speech activists also being in favor of putting Mein Kampf in the student library for the children or teachers teaching Creationist perspectives on science. I think there needs to be a question of merit about what is taught, no?

jrm4 4y ago
Stop. There is a universe of difference between curating selections for children's and/or adult libraries, and a government official stepping in to control and/or ban books. The former is part of the job, the latter is overreach.
- xyzzyz 4y ago
  Those two are literally the same thing. The “banning books” you’re talking about is literally the state curating the selection of children books in public libraries. Florida is not actually banning sales of certain books, as it would be illegal for it to do it (except in some edge cases), all it’s doing is curating the selection of books in libraries. The critics call it “banning books” to confuse audience into thinking that some books are actually getting “banned”, which is simply not happening.
  - whatshisface 4y ago
    You will have a hundred individual teachers in your life but a lot of children can grow up with a single party in office.
  - jrm4 4y ago
    Literally? Oh come on, stop being dense. Let's start with - today, one of these has the words "felony" attached to it. The other does not.
    - xyzzyz 4y ago
      It is not my fault that the activists decided to call it “banning books” when the government curates selection of books in public school libraries. I wish that such confusing language has not been introduced, but here we are: people are now calling it “banning books”. It is not I who made them the same thing, it’s the activists who tried to confuse this with a different sort of government activity which is not taking place. I have no idea what “felony” you are talking about.
  - freejazz 4y ago
    This is a completely disingenuous post.
    - xyzzyz 4y ago
      How so? Can you explain?
      - freejazz 4y ago
        It's so obtuse as to not be genuinely believable. I have no reason to believe you struggled to understand the poster's meaning to the point that you genuinely offered that as a means of creating greater understanding.
        xyzzyz 4y ago
        What was the poster’s meaning, then? Sorry, I genuinely do not understand what you are getting at here.
        knewter 4y ago
        I always assume a reply like this is generated by an ai, because a real human would have tried to make himself understood if he's going to bother saying things
        freejazz 4y ago
        I guess if I was to obtusely debate the meaning of "banned books" as a means of ignoring the substantive issue, you'd have found it an incredibly compelling post
- onetimeusename 4y ago
  Sure it is. So hypothetically if some content you found objectionable was being taught to children in, let's pick a state at random, California, you would be opposed to Gov. Newsom stepping in to ban the material? Let's say the material had a history of being politically charged but the other side insists it is valid material. I'll leave it up to you to decide what is objectionable but see my other comment for suggestions. Are you still committed to preventing government overreach now? If so, that's consistent at least.
  - jrm4 4y ago
    Yes.
- rayiner 4y ago
  Librarians are public employees. They are given a lot of discretion in how they do their jobs. But like any employee, their discretion can be overruled by people in charge of the organization. What you’re suggesting is that unelected librarians have some sort of independent authority over deciding what books children should be exposed to that isn’t subject to review by elected officials. There’s an extremely short list of such roles in government—pretty much just government prosecutors and similar positions. Librarians, teachers, etc., are just employees hired to do what the elected government wants them to do.
cmh89 4y ago
>Everyone bans books. Sorry, I should have been more clear. Desantis is banning books for political reasons that have nothing to do with the education of children. > I think there needs to be a question of merit about what is taught, no? I'm not sure what you're getting at here. Experts on children's education are not calling for these politics-based book bannings.
- Dig1t 4y ago
  A huge number of parents object though, which is why Desantis has so much support. Graphic depictions and descriptions of gay sex are of dubious educational value to a large portion of parents.
  - cmh89 4y ago
    I'm sure they do, just like they were outraged by critical race theory being taught in elementary school. I'm not arguing that Desantis is a bad politician. He understands how to create a boogeyman and then get people outraged over it better than any politician alive.
    - Dig1t 4y ago
      For me, it was the opposite. I see this stuff at work and online and am angry about it. I look out at the political landscape and see that all the left is supporting this racist garbage, and I see the right is more concerned with oil pipelines and lowering taxes. Desantis is the only one who sticks out that is doing anything about this.
      - cmh89 4y ago
        >I see this stuff at work and online and am angry about it. Well yeah, that's the whole point of their information machine. >I look out at the political landscape and see that all the left is supporting this racist garbage, and I see the right is more concerned with oil pipelines and lowering taxes. Who is now? The right only has the culture war to talk about. Tucker is on nightly raging about identity politics and whatever they want you to be upset about. I have two Democrat Senators and a Democrat rep I get emails from and they basically only talk about job creation, protecting the environment, and creating a fair tax system. Your understanding of 'left' politics is just what right-wing media has told you it is.
taylodl 4y ago
What are you talking about? Everybody should read Mein Kempf just so you can understand how populism works. As for Creationism? It absolutely should be taught in science class to help students distinguish between what is science and what is pseudoscience. You may as well make sure they understand what a scientific theory is while you're at it. I'd throw in the Satanic Bible too as it actually defines what humanism is. That's useful info for anybody living in a modern democratic society not founded on a religion. Throw in some Camus and Nietzche and these kids will have the knowledge they need to take on this world head first! But, those kind of people don't make for docile laborers who are content to work to fulfill the dreams of others. So we make sure they don't have access to these kinds of books.
- wonderwonder 4y ago
  Honestly most kids would benefit from just having a yearly class on debt and budgeting. It's a core skill for being a successful adult and 90% of us don't do it. I know it's a different topic but I've always been amazed that it's not a core or the core skill taught in school.
  - taylodl 4y ago
    100% wholeheartedly agree!

jrm4 4y ago

Stop. There is a universe of difference between curating selections for children's and/or adult libraries, and a government official stepping in to control and/or ban books. The former is part of the job, the latter is overreach.

xyzzyz 4y ago
Those two are literally the same thing. The “banning books” you’re talking about is literally the state curating the selection of children books in public libraries. Florida is not actually banning sales of certain books, as it would be illegal for it to do it (except in some edge cases), all it’s doing is curating the selection of books in libraries. The critics call it “banning books” to confuse audience into thinking that some books are actually getting “banned”, which is simply not happening.
- whatshisface 4y ago
  You will have a hundred individual teachers in your life but a lot of children can grow up with a single party in office.
- jrm4 4y ago
  Literally? Oh come on, stop being dense. Let's start with - today, one of these has the words "felony" attached to it. The other does not.
  - xyzzyz 4y ago
    It is not my fault that the activists decided to call it “banning books” when the government curates selection of books in public school libraries. I wish that such confusing language has not been introduced, but here we are: people are now calling it “banning books”. It is not I who made them the same thing, it’s the activists who tried to confuse this with a different sort of government activity which is not taking place. I have no idea what “felony” you are talking about.
- freejazz 4y ago
  This is a completely disingenuous post.
  - xyzzyz 4y ago
    How so? Can you explain?
    - freejazz 4y ago
      It's so obtuse as to not be genuinely believable. I have no reason to believe you struggled to understand the poster's meaning to the point that you genuinely offered that as a means of creating greater understanding.
      - xyzzyz 4y ago
        What was the poster’s meaning, then? Sorry, I genuinely do not understand what you are getting at here.
        knewter 4y ago
        I always assume a reply like this is generated by an ai, because a real human would have tried to make himself understood if he's going to bother saying things
        freejazz 4y ago
        I guess if I was to obtusely debate the meaning of "banned books" as a means of ignoring the substantive issue, you'd have found it an incredibly compelling post
onetimeusename 4y ago
Sure it is. So hypothetically if some content you found objectionable was being taught to children in, let's pick a state at random, California, you would be opposed to Gov. Newsom stepping in to ban the material? Let's say the material had a history of being politically charged but the other side insists it is valid material. I'll leave it up to you to decide what is objectionable but see my other comment for suggestions. Are you still committed to preventing government overreach now? If so, that's consistent at least.
- jrm4 4y ago
  Yes.
rayiner 4y ago
Librarians are public employees. They are given a lot of discretion in how they do their jobs. But like any employee, their discretion can be overruled by people in charge of the organization. What you’re suggesting is that unelected librarians have some sort of independent authority over deciding what books children should be exposed to that isn’t subject to review by elected officials. There’s an extremely short list of such roles in government—pretty much just government prosecutors and similar positions. Librarians, teachers, etc., are just employees hired to do what the elected government wants them to do.

cmh89 4y ago

>Everyone bans books. Sorry, I should have been more clear. Desantis is banning books for political reasons that have nothing to do with the education of children. > I think there needs to be a question of merit about what is taught, no? I'm not sure what you're getting at here. Experts on children's education are not calling for these politics-based book bannings.

Dig1t 4y ago
A huge number of parents object though, which is why Desantis has so much support. Graphic depictions and descriptions of gay sex are of dubious educational value to a large portion of parents.
- cmh89 4y ago
  I'm sure they do, just like they were outraged by critical race theory being taught in elementary school. I'm not arguing that Desantis is a bad politician. He understands how to create a boogeyman and then get people outraged over it better than any politician alive.
  - Dig1t 4y ago
    For me, it was the opposite. I see this stuff at work and online and am angry about it. I look out at the political landscape and see that all the left is supporting this racist garbage, and I see the right is more concerned with oil pipelines and lowering taxes. Desantis is the only one who sticks out that is doing anything about this.
    - cmh89 4y ago
      >I see this stuff at work and online and am angry about it. Well yeah, that's the whole point of their information machine. >I look out at the political landscape and see that all the left is supporting this racist garbage, and I see the right is more concerned with oil pipelines and lowering taxes. Who is now? The right only has the culture war to talk about. Tucker is on nightly raging about identity politics and whatever they want you to be upset about. I have two Democrat Senators and a Democrat rep I get emails from and they basically only talk about job creation, protecting the environment, and creating a fair tax system. Your understanding of 'left' politics is just what right-wing media has told you it is.

taylodl 4y ago

What are you talking about? Everybody should read Mein Kempf just so you can understand how populism works. As for Creationism? It absolutely should be taught in science class to help students distinguish between what is science and what is pseudoscience. You may as well make sure they understand what a scientific theory is while you're at it. I'd throw in the Satanic Bible too as it actually defines what humanism is. That's useful info for anybody living in a modern democratic society not founded on a religion. Throw in some Camus and Nietzche and these kids will have the knowledge they need to take on this world head first! But, those kind of people don't make for docile laborers who are content to work to fulfill the dreams of others. So we make sure they don't have access to these kinds of books.

wonderwonder 4y ago
Honestly most kids would benefit from just having a yearly class on debt and budgeting. It's a core skill for being a successful adult and 90% of us don't do it. I know it's a different topic but I've always been amazed that it's not a core or the core skill taught in school.
- taylodl 4y ago
  100% wholeheartedly agree!