5 ms·

Digital files are usually better, but only in the moment. Moving away from physical objects means you're now doomed to the Sisyphean task of constantly managing

Digital files are usually better, but only in the moment. Moving away from physical objects means you're now doomed to the Sisyphean task of constantly managing a backup & migration strategy and have looming futureproofing issues when the format in question becomes deprecated. Tell me again how much of a drag it is to have a set of shelves with movies on them?

mindslight 4y ago
It's a drag when you pull out a movie you haven't watched in a while, and the disc is delaminating. Or you're watching something that glitches in a particular spot and you just end up fast forwarding to the next scene to keep watching, forever skipping that part of the movie. And then you remember you paid money for that trash. Also I don't see mpv/Kodi ever deprecating support for x264. And even if there were some compelling reason to leave the format behind, you can always transcode or just redownload.
- midoridensha 4y ago
  >Also I don't see mpv/Kodi ever deprecating support for x264. Basically, this will never happen (barring some kind of planetary catastrophe). The software for these codecs is ubiquitous and easily downloadable. You can still download software for very, very old codecs that didn't get as much use as x264; this stuff is all built into ffmpeg AFAIK. This is one of the huge benefits of open formats (or at least formats with free software decoders; remember MP3 was patent-encumbered for a long time but there was still a FOSS codec). Some weird proprietary format/codec doesn't have this benefit, such as DIVX (the DVD competitor, not to be confused with the FOSS codec).
lmm 4y ago
> Moving away from physical objects means you're now doomed to the Sisyphean task of constantly managing a backup & migration strategy and have looming futureproofing issues when the format in question becomes deprecated. You still get that with physical objects. How are your shelves of VHS tapes and LaserDiscs doing?
- rzzzt 4y ago
  In a post-apocalyptic setup I can build a shelter from VHS tapes (LaserDiscs could be used to reflect sunlight on solar panels). Hard drives are inconveniently heavy to make a chainmail out of, but they could be used for light shielding against ionizing radiation.
  - HPsquared 4y ago
    I could see CDs/DVDs working pretty well as light scale armour. Particularly resistant to laser attacks.
    - tenebrisalietum 4y ago
      Can also potentially blind enemies during the day and will likely confuse automated image recognition.
- forgetfreeman 4y ago
  Sorry can't hear you over LPs consistently being a thing for over 90 years and counting.
- asdff 4y ago
  Totally fine if you didn't throw away your vcr or laser disk player.
  - account42 4y ago
    Not if you live in a country with high humidity.
Dylan16807 4y ago
I can put 2000 DVDs or 400 Blu-rays onto a single hard drive and then either keep the discs as backup (no cases needed, tucked away in a closet) or pay Amazon a few dollars a month. Migration is a matter of clicking copy and paste every handful of years. I have no idea what you mean by "the format in question becomes deprecated". A physical disc will become deprecated long before the ripped version ever will.
- forgetfreeman 4y ago
  We now pretending harddrives don't have a tendency to shit the bed without warning? Like, that's not a thing that happens anymore? And you're going to, with a straight face, advance the claim that digital platforms and media in play today will still be viable in their current form in 30 years? Because I've got optical media in the house that's almost that old that's still perfectly viable.
  - account42 4y ago
    > We now pretending harddrives don't have a tendency to shit the bed without warning? Like, that's not a thing that happens anymore? Most of my HDD failures hav been preceeded by either errors logged via SMART or outright bad blocks. Generally, immediate full on failures are good because you can just switch over to backups whereas with more gradual failures there is a chance of corrupted data making it into your backups. Less of a concern for write-once data like movie rips though. > And you're going to, with a straight face, advance the claim that digital platforms and media in play today will still be viable in their current form in 30 years? Platforms will go away, sure, but formats will be supported for a long time by ffmpeg and players using ffmpeg. Probably longer than any player for your physical discs. > Because I've got optical media in the house that's almost that old that's still perfectly viable. And other people had optical media fail in much less time. There are always outliers. Anyway, pretty sure GP is talking about storing rips of optical media (otherwise keeping the discs as backup would make less sense) so you can get the best of both worlds - convenient digital files with the optical media as a disaster recovery in case your files rot first. That's my current stategy anyway.
  - Dylan16807 4y ago
midoridensha 4y ago
You do realize that optical discs degrade over time, right? Usually, they last a long time, but many people have found that old CDs, for instance, weren't manufactured quite right and the metal layer corroded over time. Writable optical discs are far, far worse, and are completely untrustworthy as a long-term archive solution. So I don't think you really can avoid the need for constantly managing and migrating your backups. Finally, "a set of shelves" with movies can take quite a lot of space if you have hundreds or thousands of movies. To me, it's easier with music: I don't listen to that much music, and I listen to a large portion of my library many, many times over. Movie-watching is quite different from this; I don't re-watch movies or TV shows very often, but it's nice to have them available for those times I want to, or when a friend wants to watch something. So it's quite possible to collect far more video than audio, at least in my personal experience.
- forgetfreeman 4y ago
  Nah. I've got 25 year old copies of movies that play perfectly well on optical media. 300 titles take up significantly less space than a bookshelf, and in a pinch you can just stack them all neatly in a tote or similar for long term storage. Observed reality trumps hypothetical reality.
stakhanov 4y ago
"Bitrot" is not a law of nature. Rather, protection from it is a racket. Media by far outlive the usefulness of the data on them, which is subject to planned obsolescence. They sell you a solution to a problem that wouldn't exist if they themselves hadn't created it. I own a MacBook from 2010, fully equipped with software that cost me 4 figures back then (Adobe Creative Suite, MS Office, various bits of commercial music production software etc. etc.) and came with perpetual licenses and physical media. ...yet somehow they managed to render it worthless so that they could charge me again for what I already owned, namely office software and design software.
- iso1631 4y ago
  On the other hand I own DVDs from 2010 that no longer play because of poor manufacturing quality. Of course I can play the rips of them, but then it's effort to keep the data rotated through backups. Not a lot of effort, but still effort that most people don't want to do.

mindslight 4y ago

It's a drag when you pull out a movie you haven't watched in a while, and the disc is delaminating. Or you're watching something that glitches in a particular spot and you just end up fast forwarding to the next scene to keep watching, forever skipping that part of the movie. And then you remember you paid money for that trash. Also I don't see mpv/Kodi ever deprecating support for x264. And even if there were some compelling reason to leave the format behind, you can always transcode or just redownload.

midoridensha 4y ago
>Also I don't see mpv/Kodi ever deprecating support for x264. Basically, this will never happen (barring some kind of planetary catastrophe). The software for these codecs is ubiquitous and easily downloadable. You can still download software for very, very old codecs that didn't get as much use as x264; this stuff is all built into ffmpeg AFAIK. This is one of the huge benefits of open formats (or at least formats with free software decoders; remember MP3 was patent-encumbered for a long time but there was still a FOSS codec). Some weird proprietary format/codec doesn't have this benefit, such as DIVX (the DVD competitor, not to be confused with the FOSS codec).

lmm 4y ago

> Moving away from physical objects means you're now doomed to the Sisyphean task of constantly managing a backup & migration strategy and have looming futureproofing issues when the format in question becomes deprecated. You still get that with physical objects. How are your shelves of VHS tapes and LaserDiscs doing?

rzzzt 4y ago
In a post-apocalyptic setup I can build a shelter from VHS tapes (LaserDiscs could be used to reflect sunlight on solar panels). Hard drives are inconveniently heavy to make a chainmail out of, but they could be used for light shielding against ionizing radiation.
- HPsquared 4y ago
  I could see CDs/DVDs working pretty well as light scale armour. Particularly resistant to laser attacks.
  - tenebrisalietum 4y ago
    Can also potentially blind enemies during the day and will likely confuse automated image recognition.
forgetfreeman 4y ago
Sorry can't hear you over LPs consistently being a thing for over 90 years and counting.
asdff 4y ago
Totally fine if you didn't throw away your vcr or laser disk player.
- account42 4y ago
  Not if you live in a country with high humidity.

Dylan16807 4y ago

I can put 2000 DVDs or 400 Blu-rays onto a single hard drive and then either keep the discs as backup (no cases needed, tucked away in a closet) or pay Amazon a few dollars a month. Migration is a matter of clicking copy and paste every handful of years. I have no idea what you mean by "the format in question becomes deprecated". A physical disc will become deprecated long before the ripped version ever will.

forgetfreeman 4y ago
We now pretending harddrives don't have a tendency to shit the bed without warning? Like, that's not a thing that happens anymore? And you're going to, with a straight face, advance the claim that digital platforms and media in play today will still be viable in their current form in 30 years? Because I've got optical media in the house that's almost that old that's still perfectly viable.
- account42 4y ago
  > We now pretending harddrives don't have a tendency to shit the bed without warning? Like, that's not a thing that happens anymore? Most of my HDD failures hav been preceeded by either errors logged via SMART or outright bad blocks. Generally, immediate full on failures are good because you can just switch over to backups whereas with more gradual failures there is a chance of corrupted data making it into your backups. Less of a concern for write-once data like movie rips though. > And you're going to, with a straight face, advance the claim that digital platforms and media in play today will still be viable in their current form in 30 years? Platforms will go away, sure, but formats will be supported for a long time by ffmpeg and players using ffmpeg. Probably longer than any player for your physical discs. > Because I've got optical media in the house that's almost that old that's still perfectly viable. And other people had optical media fail in much less time. There are always outliers. Anyway, pretty sure GP is talking about storing rips of optical media (otherwise keeping the discs as backup would make less sense) so you can get the best of both worlds - convenient digital files with the optical media as a disaster recovery in case your files rot first. That's my current stategy anyway.
- Dylan16807 4y ago

midoridensha 4y ago

You do realize that optical discs degrade over time, right? Usually, they last a long time, but many people have found that old CDs, for instance, weren't manufactured quite right and the metal layer corroded over time. Writable optical discs are far, far worse, and are completely untrustworthy as a long-term archive solution. So I don't think you really can avoid the need for constantly managing and migrating your backups. Finally, "a set of shelves" with movies can take quite a lot of space if you have hundreds or thousands of movies. To me, it's easier with music: I don't listen to that much music, and I listen to a large portion of my library many, many times over. Movie-watching is quite different from this; I don't re-watch movies or TV shows very often, but it's nice to have them available for those times I want to, or when a friend wants to watch something. So it's quite possible to collect far more video than audio, at least in my personal experience.

forgetfreeman 4y ago
Nah. I've got 25 year old copies of movies that play perfectly well on optical media. 300 titles take up significantly less space than a bookshelf, and in a pinch you can just stack them all neatly in a tote or similar for long term storage. Observed reality trumps hypothetical reality.

stakhanov 4y ago

"Bitrot" is not a law of nature. Rather, protection from it is a racket. Media by far outlive the usefulness of the data on them, which is subject to planned obsolescence. They sell you a solution to a problem that wouldn't exist if they themselves hadn't created it. I own a MacBook from 2010, fully equipped with software that cost me 4 figures back then (Adobe Creative Suite, MS Office, various bits of commercial music production software etc. etc.) and came with perpetual licenses and physical media. ...yet somehow they managed to render it worthless so that they could charge me again for what I already owned, namely office software and design software.

iso1631 4y ago
On the other hand I own DVDs from 2010 that no longer play because of poor manufacturing quality. Of course I can play the rips of them, but then it's effort to keep the data rotated through backups. Not a lot of effort, but still effort that most people don't want to do.