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As is always pointed out when this comes up, the luddites broke machines as a strategic move to resist the undermining of their class interests and livelihood b

As is always pointed out when this comes up, the luddites broke machines as a strategic move to resist the undermining of their class interests and livelihood by workshop owners. So the comparison is correct, but not in the way you mean, and as the luddites were right to break machines then so we are now.

chii 4y ago
They were not right to break the machines. Sometimes the wheels of progress will roll and grind over the bones of those underneath in order to move forward. You just have to hope you get out of the way in time, and cling on as the whole apparatus moves forward.
- emodendroket 4y ago
  Well calling it the “wheels of progress” implies a contentious value judgment they probably would not have agreed with. And sometimes things don’t happen because people decide they’d prefer not to have their bones ground after all and successfully resist.
- giraffe_lady 4y ago
  This is one of the most inhuman takes I've seen on HN and that's a damn high bar.
  - x-complexity 4y ago
    > > > (y) As is always pointed out when this comes up, the luddites broke machines as a strategic move to resist the undermining of their class interests and livelihood by workshop owners. > > > (y) So the comparison is correct, but not in the way you mean, and as the luddites were right to break machines then so we are now. > > They were not right to break the machines. Sometimes the wheels of progress will roll and grind over the bones of those underneath in order to move forward. You just have to hope you get out of the way in time, and cling on as the whole apparatus moves forward. > (y) This is one of the most inhuman takes I've seen on HN and that's a damn high bar. The "inhumanity" that's being opposed here is the overall increase in production & accessibility of what was once a luxury item that we now take for granted as a modern basic good. The "human" take that's being championed here, giraffe_lady, is the supposed moral "goodness" that these machines should never exist at all, with the downstream idea being that there SHOULD be masses of people that toil their lives away in repetitive work.
emodendroket 4y ago
Maybe, but this discussion reminds me of Player Piano, particularly the part at the end where they’ve smashed up some of the machines, then realize they don’t have much of an alternative vision of the future anyway, and set about fixing them again.

chii 4y ago

They were not right to break the machines. Sometimes the wheels of progress will roll and grind over the bones of those underneath in order to move forward. You just have to hope you get out of the way in time, and cling on as the whole apparatus moves forward.

emodendroket 4y ago
Well calling it the “wheels of progress” implies a contentious value judgment they probably would not have agreed with. And sometimes things don’t happen because people decide they’d prefer not to have their bones ground after all and successfully resist.
giraffe_lady 4y ago
This is one of the most inhuman takes I've seen on HN and that's a damn high bar.
- x-complexity 4y ago
  > > > (y) As is always pointed out when this comes up, the luddites broke machines as a strategic move to resist the undermining of their class interests and livelihood by workshop owners. > > > (y) So the comparison is correct, but not in the way you mean, and as the luddites were right to break machines then so we are now. > > They were not right to break the machines. Sometimes the wheels of progress will roll and grind over the bones of those underneath in order to move forward. You just have to hope you get out of the way in time, and cling on as the whole apparatus moves forward. > (y) This is one of the most inhuman takes I've seen on HN and that's a damn high bar. The "inhumanity" that's being opposed here is the overall increase in production & accessibility of what was once a luxury item that we now take for granted as a modern basic good. The "human" take that's being championed here, giraffe_lady, is the supposed moral "goodness" that these machines should never exist at all, with the downstream idea being that there SHOULD be masses of people that toil their lives away in repetitive work.

emodendroket 4y ago

Maybe, but this discussion reminds me of Player Piano, particularly the part at the end where they’ve smashed up some of the machines, then realize they don’t have much of an alternative vision of the future anyway, and set about fixing them again.