8 ms·

What is this going to accomplish? Is the robot going to learn from its mistakes? Or is this supposed to be against the programmers for "failing to put in safegu

by alexb_ 4y ago

What is this going to accomplish? Is the robot going to learn from its mistakes? Or is this supposed to be against the programmers for "failing to put in safeguards" or something like that? It's kind of silly - it's not that the robot was bad but that if you keep it on 24/7 it will eventually say something bad. An infinite monkey typewriter will contain transphobic text.

JKCalhoun 4y ago
The AI is us ... and we don't like what we see.
- Zetobal 4y ago
  [flagged]
anoonmoose 4y ago
Are you suggesting that Twitch should ignore accounts that violate the ToS, so long as it was a computer that violated the terms as opposed to a person?
- alexb_ 4y ago
  [flagged]
  - rideontime 4y ago
    > Computers can't learn from their mistakes. Humans can. That's the whole point behind bans, is it not? I think the point of bans is to keep TOS-violating content off of platforms, not to rehabilitate people.
    - brookst 4y ago
      Right? It’s so funny that people see this in terms of punishment and rehabilitation. Do people really mistake these platforms for their parents?
      - joxel 4y ago
        Seems like that’s only for permanent bans. I can’t see anything other than punishment/rehabilitation as the goal for a short term ban. Maybe I’m not thinking it through, but a short term ban doesn’t seem focused on just removing TOS violating material.
        brookst 4y ago
        A short term ban is a cooldown period. They will give you another chance in case bad behavior was a mistake, but human nature is such that content produced immediately after a warning / very short ban is likely to be low quality “you can’t tell me what to do” crap. I’ve got no evidence, but I would like to believe that Twitch has experimented with ban lengths and found 14 days to be enough to reduce TOS-violating content but not so much that it reduces total content.
  - AstixAndBelix 4y ago
    Yes, and the people behind the streame learned the mistake of using an older model with less safeguards
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  - chabes 4y ago
    > Computers can't learn from their mistakes. Since when?
  - anonymousab 4y ago
    > WHen it comes to AI anything, fear is the default. If you stream a video and showcase a comedian making ToS-violating jokes and content, twitch will ban you regardless of whether you're a person or a robot or a script or a fish in a tank. The only difference is if you're a major company or rights holder that Twitch wants to have a good relationship with. Or if you're a person with connections to the twitch mods and admins, they have a tendency to play favorites. But being AI generated content or not really isn't the issue here.
  - chrischen 4y ago
    The AI is literally trained by rewarding it to not make mistakes.
  - snowwrestler 4y ago
    If computers can’t learn from mistakes, how do machine learning systems ever improve the quality of what they generate?
  - dsfyu404ed 4y ago
    >That's the whole point behind bans, is it not? I thought it was to allow rightthink and kick out wrongthink so we may curate areas in which the latter has been filtered out, a filter bubble if you will...
  - 314 4y ago
    > Computers can't learn from their mistakes. Humans can. So.... Machine Learning is a thing. > That's the whole point behind bans, is it not? No, it may be one point behind imposing bans but it is not the whole (only) point. People can also learn from watching other's make mistakes. Bans communicate to people other than the person getting banned that something is unacceptable. In this case it seems to communicate that "but it is not a person it's a bot" will not be a srong enough reason to break their rules and escape a ban.
  - mort96 4y ago
    Computers can't learn from their mistakes, but humans can learn from the mistakes of their computers. This ban seems to communicate to humans: You can stream computer-generated content, as long as that computer-generated content is appropriate for the platform. Seems completely fair to me.
  - crote 4y ago
    Isn't the whole point that AI can learn from mistakes? A ban is just a message to the creator that it should only come back once it has figured out how to properly label its dataset so that the training complies with the ToS.
- rhn_mk1 4y ago
  Computers can't violate terms, not unless we start recognizing their personhood. They can't own accounts and they can't decide what content is shown any more than the rain can decide if my dog gets wet. So the notion of people being absolved of responsibility for the procsses they set in motion is absurd.
Semaphor 4y ago
Eh, it’s the same for IRL streams. Channels get suspended for what others do. There’s a food truck livestreaming, any kind of nudity or visible underwear results in the stream going offline, VOD deletion and going online again (or a "censored" overlay in case they see it coming), 2 girls flashing still got a warning, one drunk dude with his pants falling down resulted in a 24h ban. What are they supposed to learn from that mistake?
- Joker_vD 4y ago
  And one girl literally had sex on stream and got suspended for 7 days. Or was it 14?
  - Semaphor 4y ago
    Well, unlike my and the posts example that is in her power to change (IIRC it was an accident, the stream was not supposed to be on) ;)
- paulmd 4y ago
  > 2 girls flashing still got a warning, one drunk dude with his pants falling down resulted in a 24h ban. 15 years and people are still confused about this one? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hmmAdbDF1xA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hmmAdbDF1xA
  - Semaphor 4y ago
    Twitch rules have nothing to do with FCC rules
    - paulmd 4y ago
      To be technical, neither does the linked video ;)
      - Semaphor 4y ago
        Well, I only watch music, repair, or live videos, so I went by the title ;)
criley2 4y ago
I don't think you can excuse what a chat bot says so easily. It's not an "infinite monkey typewriter". You could look at human users as an infinite monkey typewriter, and it's easy to see how some get banned and some don't. From a similar perspective, bot creators will have to learn how to create chat bots which adhere to private and soon public (legal) standards. One way or another, the concept of an out of control AI is not sustainable. The era of "my chat bot does whatever it wants and I'm not liable for it" is likely going to end in the developed world over the next decade or two. You run it, you're responsible for it.
LegitShady 4y ago
the ban is not to teach, the ban is to remove unwanted content from their platform. If you want to teach, go into teaching, not livestreaming.
- ggreer 4y ago
  If that were true then all ToS violations would result in permanent bans, but that’s not what Twitch or other major platforms do.
  - LegitShady 4y ago
    thats just a system of escalating punishment, not teaching. First case permanent bans would injure the platform and leave room for competitors. Doing it in an escalating manner removes the people they want to remove and makes competition against them less viable. If every strike on youtube was a permanent ban there would be many more creators on alternate platforms like rumble. They're not there to teach you, just to incentivize you to follow their rules or go somewhere else. Thus the complex system of strikes, demonetization, temporary live-streaming bans, etc.
parsimo2010 4y ago
Platforms don’t ban accounts so that the users might learn a lesson. They ban accounts to keep their advertisers happy. It’s doesn’t matter if the distasteful jokes come from a robot or person, to Twitch it is simply a risk
throwaway894345 4y ago
Seems like it could be interesting if the robot could learn from its mistakes, specifically that it would probably learn to be subversive (how to tell jokes that bypass the censors' policies but still communicate the wrongthink) rather than learning to toe the party line.
- genewitch 4y ago
  last year "unalive" was used to bypass tiktok censorship, right now there are a ton of videos about "mascara" which is - and i already don't like this word - algospeak to talk about sexual experiences, apparently good or bad. Usually bad, though. I imagine a sufficiently advanced AI or even human could create a convoluted word or phrase and breadcrumb enough to walk it back to whatever would have been censored, a la "for want of a nail" style.
Levitz 4y ago
>An infinite monkey typewriter will contain transphobic text. There was a Twitter account called "Fuck every word" which went through every word in the dictionary in order, writing a twit which consisted of "Fuck X" where "X" is the word. It got promptly banned as soon as it reached certain word starting with N.

by alexb_ 4y ago

JKCalhoun 4y ago

The AI is us ... and we don't like what we see.

Zetobal 4y ago
[flagged]

anoonmoose 4y ago

Are you suggesting that Twitch should ignore accounts that violate the ToS, so long as it was a computer that violated the terms as opposed to a person?

alexb_ 4y ago
[flagged]
- rideontime 4y ago
  > Computers can't learn from their mistakes. Humans can. That's the whole point behind bans, is it not? I think the point of bans is to keep TOS-violating content off of platforms, not to rehabilitate people.
  - brookst 4y ago
    Right? It’s so funny that people see this in terms of punishment and rehabilitation. Do people really mistake these platforms for their parents?
    - joxel 4y ago
      Seems like that’s only for permanent bans. I can’t see anything other than punishment/rehabilitation as the goal for a short term ban. Maybe I’m not thinking it through, but a short term ban doesn’t seem focused on just removing TOS violating material.
      - brookst 4y ago
        A short term ban is a cooldown period. They will give you another chance in case bad behavior was a mistake, but human nature is such that content produced immediately after a warning / very short ban is likely to be low quality “you can’t tell me what to do” crap. I’ve got no evidence, but I would like to believe that Twitch has experimented with ban lengths and found 14 days to be enough to reduce TOS-violating content but not so much that it reduces total content.
- AstixAndBelix 4y ago
  Yes, and the people behind the streame learned the mistake of using an older model with less safeguards
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- chabes 4y ago
  > Computers can't learn from their mistakes. Since when?
- anonymousab 4y ago
  > WHen it comes to AI anything, fear is the default. If you stream a video and showcase a comedian making ToS-violating jokes and content, twitch will ban you regardless of whether you're a person or a robot or a script or a fish in a tank. The only difference is if you're a major company or rights holder that Twitch wants to have a good relationship with. Or if you're a person with connections to the twitch mods and admins, they have a tendency to play favorites. But being AI generated content or not really isn't the issue here.
- chrischen 4y ago
  The AI is literally trained by rewarding it to not make mistakes.
- snowwrestler 4y ago
  If computers can’t learn from mistakes, how do machine learning systems ever improve the quality of what they generate?
- dsfyu404ed 4y ago
  >That's the whole point behind bans, is it not? I thought it was to allow rightthink and kick out wrongthink so we may curate areas in which the latter has been filtered out, a filter bubble if you will...
- 314 4y ago
  > Computers can't learn from their mistakes. Humans can. So.... Machine Learning is a thing. > That's the whole point behind bans, is it not? No, it may be one point behind imposing bans but it is not the whole (only) point. People can also learn from watching other's make mistakes. Bans communicate to people other than the person getting banned that something is unacceptable. In this case it seems to communicate that "but it is not a person it's a bot" will not be a srong enough reason to break their rules and escape a ban.
- mort96 4y ago
  Computers can't learn from their mistakes, but humans can learn from the mistakes of their computers. This ban seems to communicate to humans: You can stream computer-generated content, as long as that computer-generated content is appropriate for the platform. Seems completely fair to me.
- crote 4y ago
  Isn't the whole point that AI can learn from mistakes? A ban is just a message to the creator that it should only come back once it has figured out how to properly label its dataset so that the training complies with the ToS.
rhn_mk1 4y ago
Computers can't violate terms, not unless we start recognizing their personhood. They can't own accounts and they can't decide what content is shown any more than the rain can decide if my dog gets wet. So the notion of people being absolved of responsibility for the procsses they set in motion is absurd.

Semaphor 4y ago

Eh, it’s the same for IRL streams. Channels get suspended for what others do. There’s a food truck livestreaming, any kind of nudity or visible underwear results in the stream going offline, VOD deletion and going online again (or a "censored" overlay in case they see it coming), 2 girls flashing still got a warning, one drunk dude with his pants falling down resulted in a 24h ban. What are they supposed to learn from that mistake?

Joker_vD 4y ago
And one girl literally had sex on stream and got suspended for 7 days. Or was it 14?
- Semaphor 4y ago
  Well, unlike my and the posts example that is in her power to change (IIRC it was an accident, the stream was not supposed to be on) ;)
paulmd 4y ago
> 2 girls flashing still got a warning, one drunk dude with his pants falling down resulted in a 24h ban. 15 years and people are still confused about this one? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hmmAdbDF1xA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hmmAdbDF1xA
- Semaphor 4y ago
  Twitch rules have nothing to do with FCC rules
  - paulmd 4y ago
    To be technical, neither does the linked video ;)
    - Semaphor 4y ago
      Well, I only watch music, repair, or live videos, so I went by the title ;)

criley2 4y ago

I don't think you can excuse what a chat bot says so easily. It's not an "infinite monkey typewriter". You could look at human users as an infinite monkey typewriter, and it's easy to see how some get banned and some don't. From a similar perspective, bot creators will have to learn how to create chat bots which adhere to private and soon public (legal) standards. One way or another, the concept of an out of control AI is not sustainable. The era of "my chat bot does whatever it wants and I'm not liable for it" is likely going to end in the developed world over the next decade or two. You run it, you're responsible for it.

LegitShady 4y ago

the ban is not to teach, the ban is to remove unwanted content from their platform. If you want to teach, go into teaching, not livestreaming.

ggreer 4y ago
If that were true then all ToS violations would result in permanent bans, but that’s not what Twitch or other major platforms do.
- LegitShady 4y ago
  thats just a system of escalating punishment, not teaching. First case permanent bans would injure the platform and leave room for competitors. Doing it in an escalating manner removes the people they want to remove and makes competition against them less viable. If every strike on youtube was a permanent ban there would be many more creators on alternate platforms like rumble. They're not there to teach you, just to incentivize you to follow their rules or go somewhere else. Thus the complex system of strikes, demonetization, temporary live-streaming bans, etc.

parsimo2010 4y ago

Platforms don’t ban accounts so that the users might learn a lesson. They ban accounts to keep their advertisers happy. It’s doesn’t matter if the distasteful jokes come from a robot or person, to Twitch it is simply a risk

throwaway894345 4y ago

Seems like it could be interesting if the robot could learn from its mistakes, specifically that it would probably learn to be subversive (how to tell jokes that bypass the censors' policies but still communicate the wrongthink) rather than learning to toe the party line.

genewitch 4y ago
last year "unalive" was used to bypass tiktok censorship, right now there are a ton of videos about "mascara" which is - and i already don't like this word - algospeak to talk about sexual experiences, apparently good or bad. Usually bad, though. I imagine a sufficiently advanced AI or even human could create a convoluted word or phrase and breadcrumb enough to walk it back to whatever would have been censored, a la "for want of a nail" style.

Levitz 4y ago

>An infinite monkey typewriter will contain transphobic text. There was a Twitter account called "Fuck every word" which went through every word in the dictionary in order, writing a twit which consisted of "Fuck X" where "X" is the word. It got promptly banned as soon as it reached certain word starting with N.