10 ms·

Yes, I can't wrap my head around the fact that VS Code and Teams came out of the same company. That the same people who thought "it's a good idea to use CS theo

by qsort 4y ago

Yes, I can't wrap my head around the fact that VS Code and Teams came out of the same company. That the same people who thought "it's a good idea to use CS theory to add a type system to Javascript" are the same people who thought "it's a good idea to put ads in the start menu".

jerrre 4y ago
Isn't that just because it's an unfathomably huge company with a very broad range of products
- PaulHoule 4y ago
  Sometimes I wonder if there is some kind of upside down "virtue signalling" going on. Ads in the Start Menu might not make a lot of money but investors might be impressed that Microsoft is at least trying to make a few more cents here and there. I wonder if Amazon treats employees so poorly not because this is good for business but because it helps Wall Street accept Amazon's loss-making habits (at least they aren't being generous with the help) and maybe convinces a few customers that Amazon is trying really hard to serve them well.
  - throw_pm23 4y ago
    So "vice signalling", maybe?
    - santoshalper 4y ago
      That needs to be a thing.
    - rchaud 4y ago
      I would love for society to return to using "virtue-signaling" and "vice-signaling" in their original meaning, instead of this contemporary linguistic hell where the former is a derogatory synonym for political correctness.
      - PaulHoule 4y ago
        Won't happen. 3000 years from now conservatives will be reading from their "Old Testament" about the evils of political correctness even if they are hazy about the details as if Stanford was on the East Coast or the West Coast. There was a blog post that got flagged this morning where somebody was complaining about those "In those house we believe signs..." which I haven't seen around for a year or so.
      - replygirl 4y ago
        since in contemporary western society we don't have commonly agreed-upon ideas of "good", "good" becomes an individualized, emotionally-driven thing about agreeability. in the absence of a standard, "the virtues" are replaced with the much more malleable concept of singular "virtue". so today "virtuous" just means "good" and "good" means "agreeable to my worldview", and since we've collectively conflated worldview with politics, having acceptable politics is, quite literally, signaling virtue. point is that while it's disappointing for the west to lack a clear moral sensibility, the linguistics are perfectly coherent
        NoZebra120vClip 4y ago
        In order to smash the patriarchy completely, we'll need to abolish the term "virtuous" because it literally means "manly". So, even a "virtuous woman" possesses "manly" good qualities. Repugnant, isn't it?
      - JohnFen 4y ago
        That's not going to happen. Now, I take them as a different sort of signal. Someone who uses those terms are more likely than not coming from a certain worldview, and so it tips me off about the context in which to take their comments.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
- phillipcarter 4y ago
  Yep, literally the size of a city and over a dozen billion-dollar ARR products. VSCode and Teams are basically different companies where it's easier to transfer to and from.
Deukhoofd 4y ago
> That the same people who thought "it's a good idea to use CS theory to add a type system to Javascript" are the same people who thought "it's a good idea to put ads in the start menu". The secret is that they aren't the same people.
- capableweb 4y ago
  They both work for and represent/is represented by the same company though.
  - mcv 4y ago
    The company is the same, but the people are not. There's a lot of people working at Microsoft. Different departments, even different teams, can have completely different approaches.
    - capableweb 4y ago
      Sure, but I would still feel angry towards people who work for unethical companies even though they "just" work in the accounting department. Same here, just because you work in a different team doesn't mean people won't associate you with the rest of the crap the very same company puts out.
- yanellena 4y ago
  They aren't even aimed at the same customers. I use Windows 11 Enterprise and I've never seen ads in the start menu, because corporate customers wouldn't put up with that.
- macintux 4y ago
  Which was the point of the left hand/right hand analogy.
WithinReason 4y ago
Might have to do with how the company is organised: https://www.businessinsider.com/big-tech-org-charts-2011-6 https://www.businessinsider.com/big-tech-org-charts-2011-6
hbn 4y ago
VS Code's selling point is that it's a middle-ground between (relatively) lightweight performance of a text editor, and power of an IDE. People are keeping an eye on performance, and they'll stop using it if it just becomes a bloated, master-of-none IDE. Teams' bread and butter is being "good enough" for enterprise. And they're also locked into a lot of bad early decisions they made since they don't want to break compatibility for huge, paying customers of theirs. I feel like they have to be incredibly careful making changes to not step on toes in that regard, making development a slow-moving behemoth.
- CamperBob2 4y ago
  What do people not like about Teams? I just started using it with a contract customer and it seems fine. Does what it says on the proverbial tin.
  - taormina 4y ago
    I have to use Google Hangouts or Meet or whatever it’s called now, Zoom, Teams and Slack Huddles. Teams consistently screws up audio, video or both! Then we end up back in Slack.
  - __s 4y ago
    The UI isn't smooth. Notifications will appear & then the message won't show up for a few seconds. Scrolling back through history can start flickering all over the place. It takes up a lot of memory
  - 98codes 4y ago
    You running 64GB or 128Gb of ram?
    - CamperBob2 4y ago
      Admittedly I'm using a fast machine they configured and issued to me (i7-12850HX with 64 GB), and with a decent (50 Mb/10 Mb) broadband connection. Haven't had to do much with Teams yet, but it hasn't actively pissed me off.
replygirl 4y ago
that the same people who made windows <version> made windows <version>

by qsort 4y ago

jerrre 4y ago

Isn't that just because it's an unfathomably huge company with a very broad range of products

PaulHoule 4y ago
Sometimes I wonder if there is some kind of upside down "virtue signalling" going on. Ads in the Start Menu might not make a lot of money but investors might be impressed that Microsoft is at least trying to make a few more cents here and there. I wonder if Amazon treats employees so poorly not because this is good for business but because it helps Wall Street accept Amazon's loss-making habits (at least they aren't being generous with the help) and maybe convinces a few customers that Amazon is trying really hard to serve them well.
- throw_pm23 4y ago
  So "vice signalling", maybe?
  - santoshalper 4y ago
    That needs to be a thing.
  - rchaud 4y ago
    I would love for society to return to using "virtue-signaling" and "vice-signaling" in their original meaning, instead of this contemporary linguistic hell where the former is a derogatory synonym for political correctness.
    - PaulHoule 4y ago
      Won't happen. 3000 years from now conservatives will be reading from their "Old Testament" about the evils of political correctness even if they are hazy about the details as if Stanford was on the East Coast or the West Coast. There was a blog post that got flagged this morning where somebody was complaining about those "In those house we believe signs..." which I haven't seen around for a year or so.
    - replygirl 4y ago
      since in contemporary western society we don't have commonly agreed-upon ideas of "good", "good" becomes an individualized, emotionally-driven thing about agreeability. in the absence of a standard, "the virtues" are replaced with the much more malleable concept of singular "virtue". so today "virtuous" just means "good" and "good" means "agreeable to my worldview", and since we've collectively conflated worldview with politics, having acceptable politics is, quite literally, signaling virtue. point is that while it's disappointing for the west to lack a clear moral sensibility, the linguistics are perfectly coherent
      - NoZebra120vClip 4y ago
        In order to smash the patriarchy completely, we'll need to abolish the term "virtuous" because it literally means "manly". So, even a "virtuous woman" possesses "manly" good qualities. Repugnant, isn't it?
    - JohnFen 4y ago
      That's not going to happen. Now, I take them as a different sort of signal. Someone who uses those terms are more likely than not coming from a certain worldview, and so it tips me off about the context in which to take their comments.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
phillipcarter 4y ago
Yep, literally the size of a city and over a dozen billion-dollar ARR products. VSCode and Teams are basically different companies where it's easier to transfer to and from.

Deukhoofd 4y ago

> That the same people who thought "it's a good idea to use CS theory to add a type system to Javascript" are the same people who thought "it's a good idea to put ads in the start menu". The secret is that they aren't the same people.

capableweb 4y ago
They both work for and represent/is represented by the same company though.
- mcv 4y ago
  The company is the same, but the people are not. There's a lot of people working at Microsoft. Different departments, even different teams, can have completely different approaches.
  - capableweb 4y ago
    Sure, but I would still feel angry towards people who work for unethical companies even though they "just" work in the accounting department. Same here, just because you work in a different team doesn't mean people won't associate you with the rest of the crap the very same company puts out.
yanellena 4y ago
They aren't even aimed at the same customers. I use Windows 11 Enterprise and I've never seen ads in the start menu, because corporate customers wouldn't put up with that.
macintux 4y ago
Which was the point of the left hand/right hand analogy.

WithinReason 4y ago

Might have to do with how the company is organised: https://www.businessinsider.com/big-tech-org-charts-2011-6 https://www.businessinsider.com/big-tech-org-charts-2011-6

hbn 4y ago

VS Code's selling point is that it's a middle-ground between (relatively) lightweight performance of a text editor, and power of an IDE. People are keeping an eye on performance, and they'll stop using it if it just becomes a bloated, master-of-none IDE. Teams' bread and butter is being "good enough" for enterprise. And they're also locked into a lot of bad early decisions they made since they don't want to break compatibility for huge, paying customers of theirs. I feel like they have to be incredibly careful making changes to not step on toes in that regard, making development a slow-moving behemoth.

CamperBob2 4y ago
What do people not like about Teams? I just started using it with a contract customer and it seems fine. Does what it says on the proverbial tin.
- taormina 4y ago
  I have to use Google Hangouts or Meet or whatever it’s called now, Zoom, Teams and Slack Huddles. Teams consistently screws up audio, video or both! Then we end up back in Slack.
- __s 4y ago
  The UI isn't smooth. Notifications will appear & then the message won't show up for a few seconds. Scrolling back through history can start flickering all over the place. It takes up a lot of memory
- 98codes 4y ago
  You running 64GB or 128Gb of ram?
  - CamperBob2 4y ago
    Admittedly I'm using a fast machine they configured and issued to me (i7-12850HX with 64 GB), and with a decent (50 Mb/10 Mb) broadband connection. Haven't had to do much with Teams yet, but it hasn't actively pissed me off.

replygirl 4y ago

that the same people who made windows <version> made windows <version>