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Consider that the world has introverts and extroverts. Consider also that your job is something you spend the majority of your waking hours doing. Consider then

Consider that the world has introverts and extroverts. Consider also that your job is something you spend the majority of your waking hours doing. Consider then that the extroverts might prefer that to have some level of socialization. The extroverts have been made quite aware of how the introverts prefer things to be in the past few years, and may now be aware that the extroverts had the upper hand before. It must be feasible to strike a decent middleground.

krageon 4y ago
The middle ground is having extroverts socialise somewhere where it's not a demand that inflicts harm on other people. Where folks can be of their own free will.
- einherjae 4y ago
  Nah, it’s not. Not at all. You’re asking a portion of the population that thrives on socialization to avoid that for the majority of the day. That is just as bad as insisting on forcing that on the introverts.
  - Volundr 4y ago
    No one is asking that. They are asking that they not be dragged into the office in order to fill someone else's need for socializing at the expense of their own we'll being. If other people want to work at the office more power too them, but if not enough people want an to be in the office to fill their need for socializing, they are being asked to find it elsewhere instead of trying to force everyone else to fill their needs.
    - einherjae 4y ago
      I don’t think you appreciate how bad full remote work can be for someone that thrives on having people around them. But I do appreciate the point you make here, asking others to do something they don’t appreciate just because you want to have people around, is not really a viable solution either. Then again, humans are intrinsically social animals. And communication does work better for some purposes when done in person. The point I’m trying to raise is that there should exist a decent middle ground that lets introverts and extroverts thrive in the same companies. Possibly by asking both to give a bit. But that point is somewhat incompatible with the “full remote is the way”-stance that seems to be very popular in at least a vocal part of crowds like HN.
      - deleted 4y ago
        [deleted]
vidarh 4y ago
A middle ground is to not expect in office work and to structure things accordingly (that means e.g. meetings needs to treat people dialling in on an equal footing, always). I don't mind if others go in to the office. I mind if I'm made to. But it's also not nearly as simple as you suggest. My girlfriend is very extrovert, but still also prefer mostly working from home, because while she can socialise a little bit while working it forces her to socialise with a small set of people she has not chosen, while robbing her of extra time (the commute) that she can use to socialise with those she has chosen.
- einherjae 4y ago
  Fair enough, but then again if one is to spend a certain large part of one’s day doing something, shouldn’t that be something one enjoys to some degree? And the degree of socialization might matter for the judgement of that. I.e. if you don’t like your colleagues, perhaps a new job is in the cards. (and yes, i do get the entire point about reducing the number of hours worked as a solution)
  - vidarh 4y ago
    The degree of socialization might matter, but it may also not, including for many extroverts. And changing jobs for the sake of changing colleagues is high risk - you don't get a chance to interview all your colleagues before taking a new one. It's not even necessarily about not liking them, but about not wanting to sacrifice extra time in order to spend more time face to face with them.

krageon 4y ago

The middle ground is having extroverts socialise somewhere where it's not a demand that inflicts harm on other people. Where folks can be of their own free will.

einherjae 4y ago
Nah, it’s not. Not at all. You’re asking a portion of the population that thrives on socialization to avoid that for the majority of the day. That is just as bad as insisting on forcing that on the introverts.
- Volundr 4y ago
  No one is asking that. They are asking that they not be dragged into the office in order to fill someone else's need for socializing at the expense of their own we'll being. If other people want to work at the office more power too them, but if not enough people want an to be in the office to fill their need for socializing, they are being asked to find it elsewhere instead of trying to force everyone else to fill their needs.
  - einherjae 4y ago
    I don’t think you appreciate how bad full remote work can be for someone that thrives on having people around them. But I do appreciate the point you make here, asking others to do something they don’t appreciate just because you want to have people around, is not really a viable solution either. Then again, humans are intrinsically social animals. And communication does work better for some purposes when done in person. The point I’m trying to raise is that there should exist a decent middle ground that lets introverts and extroverts thrive in the same companies. Possibly by asking both to give a bit. But that point is somewhat incompatible with the “full remote is the way”-stance that seems to be very popular in at least a vocal part of crowds like HN.
    - deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]

vidarh 4y ago

A middle ground is to not expect in office work and to structure things accordingly (that means e.g. meetings needs to treat people dialling in on an equal footing, always). I don't mind if others go in to the office. I mind if I'm made to. But it's also not nearly as simple as you suggest. My girlfriend is very extrovert, but still also prefer mostly working from home, because while she can socialise a little bit while working it forces her to socialise with a small set of people she has not chosen, while robbing her of extra time (the commute) that she can use to socialise with those she has chosen.

einherjae 4y ago
Fair enough, but then again if one is to spend a certain large part of one’s day doing something, shouldn’t that be something one enjoys to some degree? And the degree of socialization might matter for the judgement of that. I.e. if you don’t like your colleagues, perhaps a new job is in the cards. (and yes, i do get the entire point about reducing the number of hours worked as a solution)
- vidarh 4y ago
  The degree of socialization might matter, but it may also not, including for many extroverts. And changing jobs for the sake of changing colleagues is high risk - you don't get a chance to interview all your colleagues before taking a new one. It's not even necessarily about not liking them, but about not wanting to sacrifice extra time in order to spend more time face to face with them.