14 ms·

A patch to enable Windows Subsystem for Android to run on Windows 10

235 points by quyleanh 4y ago

trelane 4y ago
Man, these names keep being disappointing. Initial reaction: Sweet! Now people can run their Windows apps on Linux/ Android. A second later: oh, bah. More X-on-Windows.
- gfiorav 4y ago
  Windows Subsystem for X. Basically means: Windows made a KVM to trick any code into think it's running on X natively. Works pretty well tbh.
  - Sakos 4y ago
    No, the name is definitely confusing. It's only named that way for historical reasons.
    - zahllos 4y ago
      Even historically there isn't a particularly well defined set of requirements for a subsystem. The closest to win32 was the subsystem for Unix applications, that loaded psdll.dll and used PE format executables even in the "Unix" environnement. WSL1 used elf files and required a custom execution process: bash.exe called com which called into the kernel to set up a special lightweight process supporting Linux syscall translation/implementation. Wsl2/wsa are Hyper-V based.
    - asveikau 4y ago
      They claimed it was for trademark reasons. I think it's bullshit. They could have come up with a better phrasing that still puts the word Windows first, and whatever additional criteria that legal was worried about. They just don't care about making sense. Even making it "Windows subsystem for Android applications", a one word addition, would be clearer.
      - asddubs 4y ago
        it is clearer but also crosses into the territory of being a whole-ass sentence rather than a name
windowshopping 4y ago
I'm confused, I thought WSA was for Windows 10 in the first place? I have it running on my Win10 laptop...
- junon 4y ago
  WSA? or WSL?
  - windowshopping 4y ago
    Ohhh you're right god I misread the hell out of this.
- 2h 4y ago
  > I thought WSA for Windows 10 in the first place this isn't valid English. can you clarify what you were trying to say?
  - windowshopping 4y ago
    I typo'd and left out the word "was" after WSA.
- numpad0 4y ago
  WSA(MS Android Emulator) requires 11 and memory integrity, else it silently crashes during VM bootup. WSL(bash on Windows) do not.
- petodo 4y ago
  you are either confusing WSA with something or you don't have W10
2h 4y ago
I wonder if you can use a proxy with this, I would like to run this through MITM Proxy to see the requests made by different Android apps. Current I am using Android Studio or GenyMotion
- tyingq 4y ago
  If it works at all like WSL, you might want to look at wsl-vpnkit. https://github.com/sakai135/wsl-vpnkit https://github.com/sakai135/wsl-vpnkit It's not a proxy, but would give some idea how to shim into the middle. Uses gvisor-tap-vsock underneath: https://github.com/containers/gvisor-tap-vsock https://github.com/containers/gvisor-tap-vsock
- ohgodplsno 4y ago
  Unless you found a way to break HTTPS, that won't do. Android uses certificate pinning, and any MITM attempt (such as running through a proxy) won't even send the requests through.
  - 2h 4y ago
    No, Android doesn't. Some apps do. And in many cases, the pinning code can be removed in real time with Frida. Please don't spread misinformation.
    - ohgodplsno 4y ago
      Android apps do not trust anything out of the system default CA since Android 7.0, which is "light" pinning. https://android-developers.googleblog.com/2016/07/changes-to-trusted-certificate.html https://android-developers.googleblog.com/2016/07/changes-to.... Additionally, certificate pinning can be done in multiple ways, and your Frida bypass will not do anything in the case of a simple reimplementation of pinning for OkHttp means you now have to find also that code (which has most likely been proguarded and obfuscated) to replace. The only ways your certificate works are: * Your self signed certificates are marked as trusted in the app manifest (which, since it isn't your app, you have to rebuild an APK to modify the network_security_config) * There's a leftover "accept everything" in the manifest, and that can only work with debug builds. * You ran it through apktool/equivalent to insert a permissive network_security_config (which only has this ability since 2022, but other scripts have existed before). Running it through Frida for that purpose is needlessly overkill. Please know your shit.
mouse_ 4y ago
Chrome is also capable of running Android software, there used to be a hack for doing so. See here: https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2014/09/hack-runs-android-apps-on-windows-mac-and-linux-computers/ https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2014/09/hack-runs-android-ap... Unfortunately this was quickly patched, and I suspect this Windows Subsystem for Android hack will be as well.
- unnouinceput 4y ago
  I doubt. Microsoft definition of Windows nowadays is "we don't care what your operating system is, your executables should run on our WinOS as well". And if somebody actually does this port from 11 to 10, they'll be happy about it. More developers will run from other OS'es to Win
  - mouse_ 4y ago
    bet
  - leni536 4y ago
    I doubt that they are super happy about it. Many of their newer software are gatekeeped to Win11 without a strong reason. They are pushing people to switch to 11.
    - wkat4242 4y ago
      11 and also edge. They still care a lot whether people use their stuff. The whole reason behind WSL was to stop the Exodus of cloud developers to running Linux on their laptops (though most of them at my work still prefer it over WSL)
    - sh4rks 4y ago
      Is there a reason to not switch?
      - MallocVoidstar 4y ago
        It requires TPM, and for a while AMD's software TPM implementation was buggy and caused stutters. That got me to push back my update to 11 to 'at least a year from now'; I don't want to suffer a bug while waiting for a BIOS patch if there's another issue like that.
ajot 4y ago
How does WSA compare to Anbox or Waydroid? Apart from running on Windows, I mean more performance wise and ability to run different apps.
- Sakos 4y ago
  I think the benefit of WSA is that Microsoft is significantly more trustworthy (shoot me, fml) than whoever is making the popular Android emulator of the day. edit: Just noticed Anbox and Waydroid are open source projects for Linux. Can't say much about them. I was thinking in terms of other Android emulators on Windows like BlueStacks.
  - cleanchit 4y ago
    Lol wine is way better and reliable than wsl.
  - vlovich123 4y ago
    Wouldn’t this be a patch of WSA from whoever is making this? This isn’t a Microsoft project…
    - Sakos 4y ago
      I was just answering the question in general, not in regards to the above patch. The patch would need to be evaluated to see how it works and whether it's safe.
- jeroenhd 4y ago
  My experience with Anbox and Waydroid on recent Linux kernels wasn't great. The kernel modules required were a major problem that made my laptop unbootable several times and just didn't want to load on my desktop.
- loxias 4y ago
  I tried to use Anbox a few times over the last 4 years, it doesn't work. I'm sure I could get it to work on a dedicated system, where I matched whatever point release of the kernel and userspace it was designed to run with, but on a normal debian (I think it was buster) install it "shat the bed" so to speak and didn't even offer the reward of actually running the apps I wanted to.
xnx 4y ago
This is great. Also hoping someone creates a patch/hack that allows Google Play Games for Winwos (https://play.google.com/googleplaygames https://play.google.com/googleplaygames) to run any Android app.
GiorgioG 4y ago
I use WSA to use the Audible.com app since Audible/Amazon have abandoned their Windows client. It just works..props to Microsoft!
k__ 4y ago
Can I use Twitter Spaces on my Windows PC with that?
- Rexogamer 4y ago
  I thought they were supported on web (at least for listeners)?
  - k__ 4y ago
    Yes, but not for speakers
- 323 4y ago
  You can install Twitter app from Windows Store if you want Spaces on Windows.
  - k__ 4y ago
    Ah, thanks for that! I don't use the Windows Store, but good idea!
loxias 4y ago
Now, if only there was a clean and performant way to run Android apps on my existing Debian system... Currently, I've had the best experience (programs work and do what they're supposed to) with Android-x86, but it's generally a few versions out of date and running a whole qemu instance is heavyweight.
- aruggirello 4y ago
  Doesn't Waydroid run under Debian?
  - loxias 4y ago
    It might, I haven't tried it (though maybe I should). I thought (maybe incorrectly) it was "super bleeding edge", depending on changing and bloating so many aspects of my existing setup as to make the setup useless to me for existing tasks. For instance, I don't have (and don't want) GNOME installed, or any sort of desktop environment, or wayland -- I'd probably have to relearn how to accomplish the tasks I ordinarily do, and it's not worth the cost. Still, perhaps I should try making a VM. :)
    - __anon-2023__ 4y ago
      Can waydroid work in docker? I like to try out apps in docker. Recently I did it with the heroku cli. Much simpler use-case though.
nirav72 4y ago
WSA is really useful for when no desktop apps are available for consumer IOT/Home automation devices and you don't want to install it on your phone.
mdaniel 4y ago
I was reading the linked repo in step 2 <https://github.com/LSPosed/MagiskOnWSALocal#magisk-on-wsa-with-google-apps https://github.com/LSPosed/MagiskOnWSALocal#magisk-on-wsa-wi...> and saw this message, which seems like utter nonsense: > For fork developers: Please don't build using GitHub Actions, as GitHub will count your forked GitHub Actions usage against this upstream repository, which may cause this upstream repository gets disabled by GitHub staff like MagiskOnWSA because of numerous forks building GitHub Actions, and counting the forks' Action usage against this upstream repository. is that even remotely true? If there's any "disabled by GitHub staff" going on, it's likely due to DMCA nonsense, not due to forks having their GitHub Actions billed against the upstream repo. Related to that, I'm surprised to see the submitted repo distribute icu.dll and winhttp.dll, versus telling interested parties to extract them out of the Win11 ISO. I bet Microsoft won't bother striking the repo over 2 random dlls but why roll the dice?
- LiamPowell 4y ago
  Rather than hosting the build artifacts, MagiskOnWSA asked users to fork the repo and run a GitHub action to build a 2GB file. Given that they had over 100,000 forks (or at least 200TB of identical artifacts), it's pretty clear why GitHub disabled their repo.
logbiscuitswave 4y ago
This is great. I really hate Windows 11. It doesn’t run on several of my computers due to its system requirements and for those that it does run on I find the UX to be such a huge step backwards that I find myself continually fighting with the shell rather than actually getting work done. So, I’ve been steadfastly sticking to Windows 10 on machines where I need Windows. There’s so many things completely artificially gated to Windows 11. The new Apple Music Preview which is gated to 11 can be easily patched to run on 10 just by editing the manifest. I’ve found many other “Windows 11 only” things to be entirely “paper” limitations. I tried to hack WSA onto 10 a while back but quickly realized it was more than a manifest change and lost interest because it wasn’t important enough to me to pursue further. I’m glad someone took the time to figure it out and I tip my hat to the folks that took the time to debug and reverse engineer this solution. The relative simplicity of the resulting hack to run WSA on Windows 10 shows that it seems to be more of an unwillingness to backport some new APIs rather than any sort of deep technological changes in the OS.
- iforgotpassword 4y ago
  When Windows 10 came along, people happily moved over from 8.x, as it was such an improvement. Those who stuck with 7 decided to still stick with 7 for a while longer. When 7 came around, same thing: most Vista users happily switched, XP users held out until the bitter end. Every time the sentiment was similar to the comment I'm replying to. Somehow people must be forgetting that the previous thing they had was already better then the current thing. Maybe helped by the fact that the next thing seems to suck even more. Wait until support for 10 ends and 12 has full screen unmutable video ads. 11 will only seem half bad.
  - voidfunc 4y ago
    The difference between 7 and basically every other Windows OS since XP was that it was actually really really good. They took Vista and fixed most of the things that pissed everyone off about it. I don't remember a lot of problems with 7 at all. Then they scrapped it for 8 which was a UX disaster. Win10 was OK, but still quirky as hell with lots of weird 8 carry over. I loathed when I finally upgraded from 7 to 10. I've been using Win11 Pro for gaming mostly and it's OK but not great once I moved the task bar back to the left. I dunno why anyone felt that was worth mucking with. What I really resent about Win11 is the desire to connect my Microsoft account to everything. Someday I'm gonna seriously give the Steam/Proton thing a try on Linux. I'm battle scarred from trying to game on Linux in the early 2000's... but I need to give it another chance. I'd much rather stay on my Linux host for both work and fun rather than just work.
wereallterrrist 4y ago
I really wish MS would remove the TPM requirement, so that I could stop sympathizing with the people who seem to have an obsessive hobby with making maintenance burdens for themselves, or will opine about Linux maintenance while spending countless unaccounted time mucking with Windows like this -_-.
- trelane 4y ago
  > I really wish MS would remove the TPM requirement That's not going to happen. For one, having a more secure OS is actually a good thing, but especially for the even larger amounts of control they'll gain over your computer as they move to Pluton and beyond. Imagine, for instance, having your bank verify your OS and software running before doing business with you. Remote attestation is definitely in the plans, see e.g. https://twitter.com/marypcbuk/status/1478416836647657479 https://twitter.com/marypcbuk/status/1478416836647657479 You could keep hoping Microsoft will do what you want with their OS, or you could get out while you can.
  - wereallterrrist 4y ago
    I haven't run Windows in a very, very long time, maybe I was too subtle with my dig at this type of content (a day after the "slimmed down" Win11 image was posted and discussed widely).
knaik94 4y ago
These artifial limitations and heavy handed approach from MS are only encouraging me to delay even more. Similarly, proper transparecy for the new Windows Terminal is gated behind windows 11. It makes me never want to use terminal even though it's available. This is working as well as it does on Windows 11. Root access with magisk is working as intended and I set up Play services and the subsystem was able to successfully log in. There is hardware accelerated x264 playback, I was able to play 1080p youtube with very few problems. The playback occasionally stutters and the youtube player itself occasionally crashes, but that feels unrelated to the underlying ability to playback video. Graphics happen via "Subsystem OpenGL ES Translator" because this is effectively virtualized. Graphics performance on my rtx 2070 (laptop) are buttery smooth, but interfacing with a touch only UI with software mapping is weird at times. I have no issues with storage or sideloading. The only part where I had to take steps outside of the standard guide was to reinstall a specific appx and manually register a manifest.xml. It looked like it was working without this step but then wouldn't reopen after opening the very first time. I had to enable developer options in both the android system settings and windows subsystem settings, they are two seperate things and I am not sure if they are supposed to sync. Enabling dev options and usb debugging in just android wasn't enough, there was a seperate setting in "windows subsystem for android settings". Android system storage is a VHDX, I have been unsuccessful trying to mount it. There's no easy way to transfer files back and forth between android and windows. I am not sure if samba will work since it is the same ip. The only other option seems to be ADB. This has all of the basically all of the downsides of hypervisors. Bluetooth also isn't working.

235 points by quyleanh 4y ago

Man, these names keep being disappointing. Initial reaction: Sweet! Now people can run their Windows apps on Linux/ Android. A second later: oh, bah. More X-on-Windows.

gfiorav 4y ago
Windows Subsystem for X. Basically means: Windows made a KVM to trick any code into think it's running on X natively. Works pretty well tbh.
- Sakos 4y ago
  No, the name is definitely confusing. It's only named that way for historical reasons.
  - zahllos 4y ago
    Even historically there isn't a particularly well defined set of requirements for a subsystem. The closest to win32 was the subsystem for Unix applications, that loaded psdll.dll and used PE format executables even in the "Unix" environnement. WSL1 used elf files and required a custom execution process: bash.exe called com which called into the kernel to set up a special lightweight process supporting Linux syscall translation/implementation. Wsl2/wsa are Hyper-V based.
  - asveikau 4y ago
    They claimed it was for trademark reasons. I think it's bullshit. They could have come up with a better phrasing that still puts the word Windows first, and whatever additional criteria that legal was worried about. They just don't care about making sense. Even making it "Windows subsystem for Android applications", a one word addition, would be clearer.
    - asddubs 4y ago
      it is clearer but also crosses into the territory of being a whole-ass sentence rather than a name

windowshopping 4y ago

I'm confused, I thought WSA was for Windows 10 in the first place? I have it running on my Win10 laptop...

junon 4y ago
WSA? or WSL?
- windowshopping 4y ago
  Ohhh you're right god I misread the hell out of this.
2h 4y ago
> I thought WSA for Windows 10 in the first place this isn't valid English. can you clarify what you were trying to say?
- windowshopping 4y ago
  I typo'd and left out the word "was" after WSA.
numpad0 4y ago
WSA(MS Android Emulator) requires 11 and memory integrity, else it silently crashes during VM bootup. WSL(bash on Windows) do not.
petodo 4y ago
you are either confusing WSA with something or you don't have W10

2h 4y ago

I wonder if you can use a proxy with this, I would like to run this through MITM Proxy to see the requests made by different Android apps. Current I am using Android Studio or GenyMotion

tyingq 4y ago
If it works at all like WSL, you might want to look at wsl-vpnkit. https://github.com/sakai135/wsl-vpnkit https://github.com/sakai135/wsl-vpnkit It's not a proxy, but would give some idea how to shim into the middle. Uses gvisor-tap-vsock underneath: https://github.com/containers/gvisor-tap-vsock https://github.com/containers/gvisor-tap-vsock
ohgodplsno 4y ago
Unless you found a way to break HTTPS, that won't do. Android uses certificate pinning, and any MITM attempt (such as running through a proxy) won't even send the requests through.
- 2h 4y ago
  No, Android doesn't. Some apps do. And in many cases, the pinning code can be removed in real time with Frida. Please don't spread misinformation.
  - ohgodplsno 4y ago
    Android apps do not trust anything out of the system default CA since Android 7.0, which is "light" pinning. https://android-developers.googleblog.com/2016/07/changes-to-trusted-certificate.html https://android-developers.googleblog.com/2016/07/changes-to.... Additionally, certificate pinning can be done in multiple ways, and your Frida bypass will not do anything in the case of a simple reimplementation of pinning for OkHttp means you now have to find also that code (which has most likely been proguarded and obfuscated) to replace. The only ways your certificate works are: * Your self signed certificates are marked as trusted in the app manifest (which, since it isn't your app, you have to rebuild an APK to modify the network_security_config) * There's a leftover "accept everything" in the manifest, and that can only work with debug builds. * You ran it through apktool/equivalent to insert a permissive network_security_config (which only has this ability since 2022, but other scripts have existed before). Running it through Frida for that purpose is needlessly overkill. Please know your shit.

mouse_ 4y ago

Chrome is also capable of running Android software, there used to be a hack for doing so. See here: https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2014/09/hack-runs-android-apps-on-windows-mac-and-linux-computers/ https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2014/09/hack-runs-android-ap... Unfortunately this was quickly patched, and I suspect this Windows Subsystem for Android hack will be as well.

unnouinceput 4y ago
I doubt. Microsoft definition of Windows nowadays is "we don't care what your operating system is, your executables should run on our WinOS as well". And if somebody actually does this port from 11 to 10, they'll be happy about it. More developers will run from other OS'es to Win
- mouse_ 4y ago
  bet
- leni536 4y ago
  I doubt that they are super happy about it. Many of their newer software are gatekeeped to Win11 without a strong reason. They are pushing people to switch to 11.
  - wkat4242 4y ago
    11 and also edge. They still care a lot whether people use their stuff. The whole reason behind WSL was to stop the Exodus of cloud developers to running Linux on their laptops (though most of them at my work still prefer it over WSL)
  - sh4rks 4y ago
    Is there a reason to not switch?
    - MallocVoidstar 4y ago
      It requires TPM, and for a while AMD's software TPM implementation was buggy and caused stutters. That got me to push back my update to 11 to 'at least a year from now'; I don't want to suffer a bug while waiting for a BIOS patch if there's another issue like that.

ajot 4y ago

How does WSA compare to Anbox or Waydroid? Apart from running on Windows, I mean more performance wise and ability to run different apps.

Sakos 4y ago
I think the benefit of WSA is that Microsoft is significantly more trustworthy (shoot me, fml) than whoever is making the popular Android emulator of the day. edit: Just noticed Anbox and Waydroid are open source projects for Linux. Can't say much about them. I was thinking in terms of other Android emulators on Windows like BlueStacks.
- cleanchit 4y ago
  Lol wine is way better and reliable than wsl.
- vlovich123 4y ago
  Wouldn’t this be a patch of WSA from whoever is making this? This isn’t a Microsoft project…
  - Sakos 4y ago
    I was just answering the question in general, not in regards to the above patch. The patch would need to be evaluated to see how it works and whether it's safe.
jeroenhd 4y ago
My experience with Anbox and Waydroid on recent Linux kernels wasn't great. The kernel modules required were a major problem that made my laptop unbootable several times and just didn't want to load on my desktop.
loxias 4y ago
I tried to use Anbox a few times over the last 4 years, it doesn't work. I'm sure I could get it to work on a dedicated system, where I matched whatever point release of the kernel and userspace it was designed to run with, but on a normal debian (I think it was buster) install it "shat the bed" so to speak and didn't even offer the reward of actually running the apps I wanted to.

xnx 4y ago

This is great. Also hoping someone creates a patch/hack that allows Google Play Games for Winwos (https://play.google.com/googleplaygames https://play.google.com/googleplaygames) to run any Android app.

GiorgioG 4y ago

I use WSA to use the Audible.com app since Audible/Amazon have abandoned their Windows client. It just works..props to Microsoft!

k__ 4y ago

Can I use Twitter Spaces on my Windows PC with that?

Rexogamer 4y ago
I thought they were supported on web (at least for listeners)?
- k__ 4y ago
  Yes, but not for speakers
323 4y ago
You can install Twitter app from Windows Store if you want Spaces on Windows.
- k__ 4y ago
  Ah, thanks for that! I don't use the Windows Store, but good idea!

loxias 4y ago

Now, if only there was a clean and performant way to run Android apps on my existing Debian system... Currently, I've had the best experience (programs work and do what they're supposed to) with Android-x86, but it's generally a few versions out of date and running a whole qemu instance is heavyweight.

aruggirello 4y ago
Doesn't Waydroid run under Debian?
- loxias 4y ago
  It might, I haven't tried it (though maybe I should). I thought (maybe incorrectly) it was "super bleeding edge", depending on changing and bloating so many aspects of my existing setup as to make the setup useless to me for existing tasks. For instance, I don't have (and don't want) GNOME installed, or any sort of desktop environment, or wayland -- I'd probably have to relearn how to accomplish the tasks I ordinarily do, and it's not worth the cost. Still, perhaps I should try making a VM. :)
  - __anon-2023__ 4y ago
    Can waydroid work in docker? I like to try out apps in docker. Recently I did it with the heroku cli. Much simpler use-case though.

nirav72 4y ago

WSA is really useful for when no desktop apps are available for consumer IOT/Home automation devices and you don't want to install it on your phone.

mdaniel 4y ago

I was reading the linked repo in step 2 <https://github.com/LSPosed/MagiskOnWSALocal#magisk-on-wsa-with-google-apps https://github.com/LSPosed/MagiskOnWSALocal#magisk-on-wsa-wi...> and saw this message, which seems like utter nonsense: > For fork developers: Please don't build using GitHub Actions, as GitHub will count your forked GitHub Actions usage against this upstream repository, which may cause this upstream repository gets disabled by GitHub staff like MagiskOnWSA because of numerous forks building GitHub Actions, and counting the forks' Action usage against this upstream repository. is that even remotely true? If there's any "disabled by GitHub staff" going on, it's likely due to DMCA nonsense, not due to forks having their GitHub Actions billed against the upstream repo. Related to that, I'm surprised to see the submitted repo distribute icu.dll and winhttp.dll, versus telling interested parties to extract them out of the Win11 ISO. I bet Microsoft won't bother striking the repo over 2 random dlls but why roll the dice?

LiamPowell 4y ago
Rather than hosting the build artifacts, MagiskOnWSA asked users to fork the repo and run a GitHub action to build a 2GB file. Given that they had over 100,000 forks (or at least 200TB of identical artifacts), it's pretty clear why GitHub disabled their repo.

logbiscuitswave 4y ago

This is great. I really hate Windows 11. It doesn’t run on several of my computers due to its system requirements and for those that it does run on I find the UX to be such a huge step backwards that I find myself continually fighting with the shell rather than actually getting work done. So, I’ve been steadfastly sticking to Windows 10 on machines where I need Windows. There’s so many things completely artificially gated to Windows 11. The new Apple Music Preview which is gated to 11 can be easily patched to run on 10 just by editing the manifest. I’ve found many other “Windows 11 only” things to be entirely “paper” limitations. I tried to hack WSA onto 10 a while back but quickly realized it was more than a manifest change and lost interest because it wasn’t important enough to me to pursue further. I’m glad someone took the time to figure it out and I tip my hat to the folks that took the time to debug and reverse engineer this solution. The relative simplicity of the resulting hack to run WSA on Windows 10 shows that it seems to be more of an unwillingness to backport some new APIs rather than any sort of deep technological changes in the OS.

iforgotpassword 4y ago
When Windows 10 came along, people happily moved over from 8.x, as it was such an improvement. Those who stuck with 7 decided to still stick with 7 for a while longer. When 7 came around, same thing: most Vista users happily switched, XP users held out until the bitter end. Every time the sentiment was similar to the comment I'm replying to. Somehow people must be forgetting that the previous thing they had was already better then the current thing. Maybe helped by the fact that the next thing seems to suck even more. Wait until support for 10 ends and 12 has full screen unmutable video ads. 11 will only seem half bad.
- voidfunc 4y ago
  The difference between 7 and basically every other Windows OS since XP was that it was actually really really good. They took Vista and fixed most of the things that pissed everyone off about it. I don't remember a lot of problems with 7 at all. Then they scrapped it for 8 which was a UX disaster. Win10 was OK, but still quirky as hell with lots of weird 8 carry over. I loathed when I finally upgraded from 7 to 10. I've been using Win11 Pro for gaming mostly and it's OK but not great once I moved the task bar back to the left. I dunno why anyone felt that was worth mucking with. What I really resent about Win11 is the desire to connect my Microsoft account to everything. Someday I'm gonna seriously give the Steam/Proton thing a try on Linux. I'm battle scarred from trying to game on Linux in the early 2000's... but I need to give it another chance. I'd much rather stay on my Linux host for both work and fun rather than just work.

wereallterrrist 4y ago

I really wish MS would remove the TPM requirement, so that I could stop sympathizing with the people who seem to have an obsessive hobby with making maintenance burdens for themselves, or will opine about Linux maintenance while spending countless unaccounted time mucking with Windows like this -_-.

trelane 4y ago
> I really wish MS would remove the TPM requirement That's not going to happen. For one, having a more secure OS is actually a good thing, but especially for the even larger amounts of control they'll gain over your computer as they move to Pluton and beyond. Imagine, for instance, having your bank verify your OS and software running before doing business with you. Remote attestation is definitely in the plans, see e.g. https://twitter.com/marypcbuk/status/1478416836647657479 https://twitter.com/marypcbuk/status/1478416836647657479 You could keep hoping Microsoft will do what you want with their OS, or you could get out while you can.
- wereallterrrist 4y ago
  I haven't run Windows in a very, very long time, maybe I was too subtle with my dig at this type of content (a day after the "slimmed down" Win11 image was posted and discussed widely).

knaik94 4y ago

These artifial limitations and heavy handed approach from MS are only encouraging me to delay even more. Similarly, proper transparecy for the new Windows Terminal is gated behind windows 11. It makes me never want to use terminal even though it's available. This is working as well as it does on Windows 11. Root access with magisk is working as intended and I set up Play services and the subsystem was able to successfully log in. There is hardware accelerated x264 playback, I was able to play 1080p youtube with very few problems. The playback occasionally stutters and the youtube player itself occasionally crashes, but that feels unrelated to the underlying ability to playback video. Graphics happen via "Subsystem OpenGL ES Translator" because this is effectively virtualized. Graphics performance on my rtx 2070 (laptop) are buttery smooth, but interfacing with a touch only UI with software mapping is weird at times. I have no issues with storage or sideloading. The only part where I had to take steps outside of the standard guide was to reinstall a specific appx and manually register a manifest.xml. It looked like it was working without this step but then wouldn't reopen after opening the very first time. I had to enable developer options in both the android system settings and windows subsystem settings, they are two seperate things and I am not sure if they are supposed to sync. Enabling dev options and usb debugging in just android wasn't enough, there was a seperate setting in "windows subsystem for android settings". Android system storage is a VHDX, I have been unsuccessful trying to mount it. There's no easy way to transfer files back and forth between android and windows. I am not sure if samba will work since it is the same ip. The only other option seems to be ADB. This has all of the basically all of the downsides of hypervisors. Bluetooth also isn't working.