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It’s not actually. I have short-term memory issues that make holding math in my head next to impossible. Things get transposed or forgotten mid-operation. The o

It’s not actually. I have short-term memory issues that make holding math in my head next to impossible. Things get transposed or forgotten mid-operation. The only way I can do math is to have everything written down, including formulas. Even then, I may not be able to figure out how to change both sides of an equation. I can’t convert miles per hour to time required to travel X miles, even with paper in front of me. (I wish I could. I love hard sci-fi.) I don’t have these issue with programming because it doesn’t use my logical memory, it uses visual/spatial memory. I see function calls as a series of lines creating decision trees. You may be surprised how little math matters in practice.

yonaguska 4y ago
I had no idea that I also do this. The visual logic thing that is. I also have short term memory issues, but those seem to be improving with lions mane and bacopa. Having a high resolution large monitor also helps, the more I can fit on a screen, the easier it is to work. Double edit, if your interested in learning some math, geometry is basically algebra, visualized. Algebraic proofs didn't really click for me until I took a different math class in college on geometric algebra.
- User23 4y ago
  > Having a high resolution large monitor also helps, the more I can fit on a screen, the easier it is to work One of the most important things I learned at the Tufte seminar I attended was to let the optic nerve do as much work as possible to free up the short term memory for the hard parts. Big screens or big printouts are a great tool. > geometry is basically algebra, visualized This isn't still part of basic math instruction? It was literally middle school math where I went to school! We were frequently tested on both the algebraic and geometric solutions for a given problem. That explains a lot really.
  - yonaguska 4y ago
    It was split out when I took it, it wasn't until I took some math history geometry class in college that it all made sense.
chongli 4y ago
It’s not actually. I have short-term memory issues that make holding math in my head next to impossible. Next to the vast plains of mathematics, all of us have inadequate short term memories. This is why we write everything down. The goal of studying any piece of mathematics is to commit it to long term memory. Not in the sense of memorizing dates and times for history class, but in the sense of muscle memory. As for “how little math matters in practice”, that view is all too common among programmers. It is not a view shared by engineers or scientists in any other field. Without math we wouldn’t have any of the tools and amenities of modern life. Even the Amish teach their children math.
- kayodelycaon 4y ago
  This isn't what I was referring to. It's not storage but retrieval that's broken. I can't work out how to convert miles per hour to minutes per mile, even on paper. My brain confuses and transposes the operations necessary to do formulas. I have difficulty working out where to put the variables. This can happen with the instructions in front of me. There's a certain kind of logical/calculative abstractness I can't process without a lot of effort. A lot of math (and LISP syntax) seem to require this. Matrix operations and accounting don't. (Discrete math was fun!)
- mattgreenrocks 4y ago
  > As for “how little math matters in practice”, that view is all too common among programmers. It is not a view shared by engineers or scientists in any other field. Phrases like this are a red flag. They're usually thinly veiled anti-intellectualism, promising to free you from the oppressive gate-keeping of centuries of built-up knowledge. In reality, it's a pop culture prison. The same ideas are prominent in guitar, where you "don't need to understand theory or how to read sheet music." Which is true, because you can find chords that sound good together with enough time and patience. But it's also not the full truth, as it is obvious that more classically trained musicians tend to bring a lot more to the table from both a technique and a composition standpoint.
  - agumonkey 4y ago
    And very often, what appears to sugary pop music, was made by very musically educated people. You can't go very far with power chords only.
User23 4y ago
> I don’t have these issue with programming because it doesn’t use my logical memory, it uses visual/spatial memory It pleases me to be able to tell you that your visual/spatial reasoning is isomorphic to the symbol pushing that you're calling math. You're literally doing the same thing, just seeing it differently. This was a major part of my mathematical education, I guess that's not taught anymore?
- imtringued 4y ago
  Mathematical notation is a human language that nobody wants to teach. The usage of random smybols confuses people because they think there must be a meaning or reading for each symbol but the truth is it's all arbitrary but nobody tells you this. They don't even teach you the Greek alphabet even though it is essential in college/university. I wonder how many people are weirded out simply because they don't know the Greek alphabet.
inimino 4y ago
You might be surprised how deeply math is connected to what you're doing! It sounds like you're doing some visual reasoning with decision trees, which means you're doing computer science (understanding the execution of an algorithm) using the same intuitive geometric understanding that is extremely effective in computational complexity theory (drawing the evaluation of a sequence of function calls, for example, we can see that it's going to take up a certain amount of space, possibly growing with n in two different dimensions, for example, indicating n^2 growth by purely visual reasoning). It's been trendy in mathematics for a while to disparage geometric reasoning as non-rigorous (which, to be clear, it can be), and even to regard anything that's not purely algebraic as non-mathematical, which is a shame. You can certainly do mathematical reasoning without it being algebraic, rigorous, formalized, or written down.
- imtringued 4y ago
  If people don't understand the math they are supposedly skilled at using, then it is math that is failing them, not them.
  - anthk 4y ago
    No. Math is math. Your brain must be adapted to it. Go play with PostScript and geometry, make some figures, do some trig, try do display some integration curve by hand. Then go back to Algebra. The dots in your brain will connect and you will be enlightened.
hnfong 4y ago
I think I know what you mean. In high school I struggled most with maths that required non-trivial algebraic operations, and more often than not I'd just make some mistake while working out the steps / answer. Most people are able to get around the issue by holding more steps and doing it in their heads, but somehow I wasn't able to do it. I'd make some trivial mistake when copying the mathematical expressions and end up in a dead end. I wouldn't know whether it was a typographical mistake or whether I'm using the wrong approach. With programming my compiler tells me when I'm off base, and I get instant feedback with testing. I can save all my intermediate steps and approach the problem with trial and error if needed. I have muscle memory with Vim (it's become my cyborg short-term memory buffer). I often wonder how much better I would be at maths if I had a Wolfram-alpha cyborg device attached to my brain :P
- anthk 4y ago
  Use vim with Maxima calling it as if it was an interpreter from %! instead of using a Maxima session. Map it to a key binding. Or better: set readline to vi-mode, and you'll use the maxima prompt almost as easily as editing a vi file.

yonaguska 4y ago

I had no idea that I also do this. The visual logic thing that is. I also have short term memory issues, but those seem to be improving with lions mane and bacopa. Having a high resolution large monitor also helps, the more I can fit on a screen, the easier it is to work. Double edit, if your interested in learning some math, geometry is basically algebra, visualized. Algebraic proofs didn't really click for me until I took a different math class in college on geometric algebra.

User23 4y ago
> Having a high resolution large monitor also helps, the more I can fit on a screen, the easier it is to work One of the most important things I learned at the Tufte seminar I attended was to let the optic nerve do as much work as possible to free up the short term memory for the hard parts. Big screens or big printouts are a great tool. > geometry is basically algebra, visualized This isn't still part of basic math instruction? It was literally middle school math where I went to school! We were frequently tested on both the algebraic and geometric solutions for a given problem. That explains a lot really.
- yonaguska 4y ago
  It was split out when I took it, it wasn't until I took some math history geometry class in college that it all made sense.

chongli 4y ago

It’s not actually. I have short-term memory issues that make holding math in my head next to impossible. Next to the vast plains of mathematics, all of us have inadequate short term memories. This is why we write everything down. The goal of studying any piece of mathematics is to commit it to long term memory. Not in the sense of memorizing dates and times for history class, but in the sense of muscle memory. As for “how little math matters in practice”, that view is all too common among programmers. It is not a view shared by engineers or scientists in any other field. Without math we wouldn’t have any of the tools and amenities of modern life. Even the Amish teach their children math.

kayodelycaon 4y ago
This isn't what I was referring to. It's not storage but retrieval that's broken. I can't work out how to convert miles per hour to minutes per mile, even on paper. My brain confuses and transposes the operations necessary to do formulas. I have difficulty working out where to put the variables. This can happen with the instructions in front of me. There's a certain kind of logical/calculative abstractness I can't process without a lot of effort. A lot of math (and LISP syntax) seem to require this. Matrix operations and accounting don't. (Discrete math was fun!)
mattgreenrocks 4y ago
> As for “how little math matters in practice”, that view is all too common among programmers. It is not a view shared by engineers or scientists in any other field. Phrases like this are a red flag. They're usually thinly veiled anti-intellectualism, promising to free you from the oppressive gate-keeping of centuries of built-up knowledge. In reality, it's a pop culture prison. The same ideas are prominent in guitar, where you "don't need to understand theory or how to read sheet music." Which is true, because you can find chords that sound good together with enough time and patience. But it's also not the full truth, as it is obvious that more classically trained musicians tend to bring a lot more to the table from both a technique and a composition standpoint.
- agumonkey 4y ago
  And very often, what appears to sugary pop music, was made by very musically educated people. You can't go very far with power chords only.

User23 4y ago

> I don’t have these issue with programming because it doesn’t use my logical memory, it uses visual/spatial memory It pleases me to be able to tell you that your visual/spatial reasoning is isomorphic to the symbol pushing that you're calling math. You're literally doing the same thing, just seeing it differently. This was a major part of my mathematical education, I guess that's not taught anymore?

imtringued 4y ago
Mathematical notation is a human language that nobody wants to teach. The usage of random smybols confuses people because they think there must be a meaning or reading for each symbol but the truth is it's all arbitrary but nobody tells you this. They don't even teach you the Greek alphabet even though it is essential in college/university. I wonder how many people are weirded out simply because they don't know the Greek alphabet.

inimino 4y ago

You might be surprised how deeply math is connected to what you're doing! It sounds like you're doing some visual reasoning with decision trees, which means you're doing computer science (understanding the execution of an algorithm) using the same intuitive geometric understanding that is extremely effective in computational complexity theory (drawing the evaluation of a sequence of function calls, for example, we can see that it's going to take up a certain amount of space, possibly growing with n in two different dimensions, for example, indicating n^2 growth by purely visual reasoning). It's been trendy in mathematics for a while to disparage geometric reasoning as non-rigorous (which, to be clear, it can be), and even to regard anything that's not purely algebraic as non-mathematical, which is a shame. You can certainly do mathematical reasoning without it being algebraic, rigorous, formalized, or written down.

imtringued 4y ago
If people don't understand the math they are supposedly skilled at using, then it is math that is failing them, not them.
- anthk 4y ago
  No. Math is math. Your brain must be adapted to it. Go play with PostScript and geometry, make some figures, do some trig, try do display some integration curve by hand. Then go back to Algebra. The dots in your brain will connect and you will be enlightened.

hnfong 4y ago

I think I know what you mean. In high school I struggled most with maths that required non-trivial algebraic operations, and more often than not I'd just make some mistake while working out the steps / answer. Most people are able to get around the issue by holding more steps and doing it in their heads, but somehow I wasn't able to do it. I'd make some trivial mistake when copying the mathematical expressions and end up in a dead end. I wouldn't know whether it was a typographical mistake or whether I'm using the wrong approach. With programming my compiler tells me when I'm off base, and I get instant feedback with testing. I can save all my intermediate steps and approach the problem with trial and error if needed. I have muscle memory with Vim (it's become my cyborg short-term memory buffer). I often wonder how much better I would be at maths if I had a Wolfram-alpha cyborg device attached to my brain :P

anthk 4y ago
Use vim with Maxima calling it as if it was an interpreter from %! instead of using a Maxima session. Map it to a key binding. Or better: set readline to vi-mode, and you'll use the maxima prompt almost as easily as editing a vi file.