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The idea that indoors air can be hazardous is an old idea, and predates CO2 monitors and gas stoves. Following the 1918 Influenza Pandemic (aka Spanish Flu), ap
by jerlam 4y ago
The idea that indoors air can be hazardous is an old idea, and predates CO2 monitors and gas stoves. Following the 1918 Influenza Pandemic (aka Spanish Flu), apartments in NYC were built with absurdly large heaters so that residents could be comfortable while all the windows were open [0]. There's also the German practice of lüften [1], or ventilating a home at least once per day; and the Scandinavian idea of having babies nap outside [2].
I have a Hydrofarm Autopilot CO2 monitor and it pretty much stays at 600-800 all day, but I leave a window cracked open and live in a naturally windy area.
[0] <https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/apartment-radiator-pandemic-spread/ https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/apartment-radiator-pandemi...>
[1] <https://blogs.transparent.com/german/luften-germanys-airing-obsession-covid-19/ https://blogs.transparent.com/german/luften-germanys-airing-...>
[2] <https://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-21537988 https://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-21537988>
- leipert 4y agoOnce a day? Multiple times a day! Especially “Stoßlüften” (opening a window for a short period) or “Querlüften” (opening windows in opposite rooms to create a draft). First thing in the morning we lüft, after cooking, we lüft, before going to bed… It’s especially important in newer or well renovated houses/apartments, to get rid of excess humidity in order to prevent mold. Really new apartments are so well insulated that they have literal holes in the wall (Zwangsbelüftung) in order have some airflow. Edit: I was so enthusiastic to write a comment about lüften, that I didn’t read your link which actually covers what I said.
- ggm 4y ago[flagged]
- okr 4y agoDoes it not depend on the windows, though? My contract in a new place does not require me to open windows several times a day anymore. The windows seem to have a built in mechanism, that allows for air exchange. I can even feel a cool breeze sometimes, so something is definitly going on, though very subtle.
- skybrian 4y agoInteresting. What does this mechanism look like?
- lowmagnet 4y agoSome windows have built in trickle vents which are just a row of comb-style openings that can be adjusted from closed to half-open.
- californical 4y agoAt least in my apartment, it’s crooked wooden paneling that has been poorly nailed together. A very simple mechanism for always-on air exchange
- brmgb 4y agoI see your landlord is worried about your health too. Mine is very thoughtful. In addition to poorly jointed windows so the air stay fresh, they are single panned so it doesn’t get too hot at night and we can get optimal sleep.
- mckirk 4y agoWe lüft the house in the morning, we lüft the house at night. We lüft the house in the afternoon, it makes us feel alright. We lüft the house in times of peace, and we lüft in times of war. We lüft the house before we lüft the house, and then we lüft some more!
- tpoacher 4y agoThis would work even better with some Iambic Decapentasyllabic verse. May I? We lüft the house as we wake up, we lüft the house at night. We lüft it in the afternoon, it makes us feel alright. We lüft the house in times of peace, we lüft in times of war. We lüft it once, we lüft it twice, and then we lüft some more!
- h2odragon 4y agoThe first pass was a reference to the song "Smoke Two Joints", FYI. The rhythm of that line always seemed off to me; i like yours better.
- aidenn0 4y agoHard work good and hard work fine, but first take care of lungs?
- bradknowles 4y agoI recommend everyone here take a look at the ventilation videos on the "Home Performance" channel on YouTube at https://youtube.com/@HomePerformance https://youtube.com/@HomePerformance This is how a professional does it, and he teaches you how to do the same.
- leobg 4y agoProfessional lüfter?
- bradknowles 4y agoNo, more like the guy who designs how the airflow in your home should work, without opening any windows. Making sure you get a balance of enough clean air coming in, plus making sure you have the right amount of humidity control, and the right amount of exhaust of air containing too many contaminants, plus the right amount of heating and cooling, and everything else.
- ge96 4y agoI wonder if plants are similar (negligible effect on air) in room scale. I have about 10 small plants in my apt. I would like to think they're scrubbing the air.
- medler 4y agoI looked into this a while back and IIRC you need a lot of plants for them to make any difference. Your apartment would need to look like a jungle.
- zdragnar 4y agoPeople tend to forget that plants only respirate O2 during photosynthesis, which produces sugars from the carbon in C02 and stores them. When those are metabolized, the plant consumes 02 and puts C02 back into the atmosphere. It's why plants can live in sealed terrariums. To really offset what a human produces, you need a lot more plants than you would probably be comfortable living with.
- kolinko 4y agoIndoor plants give virtually nothing in terms of scrubbing co2. An average human breathes out around 1kg co2 per day. The plants would need to take up 1-2kg in mass to have a measurable effect. That would require a small rainforest at home. If I remember correctly, there were some studies that calculated you'd need to convert half of your room into a dense jungle to offset your own co2. Also, plants release co2 at night, so even if they had any effect, it would be a bad idea to have them in bedroom to scrub air.
- kzrdude 4y agoI live in a 1950s Swedish apartment house. Our main ventilation is an adjustable vent/hole in the wall, so just completely passive. I feel like there is constant lüften going on with that, and wonder if such building standards explain why we don't have the same habits as the German one.
- t0mas88 4y agoSimilar with the building rules in the Netherlands. Houses must have passive ventilaton in each (bed)room, and some system to create at least a certain amount of airflow based on the size of the house. Simplest way is passive vents on the windows and a central blow-out fan that pulls air in. The more modern way uses a heatexchanger setup to take heat from the outflowing air and use it to warm air being pumped into the house.
- samus 4y agoI recently visited the German Bundestag. The distinctive glass dome on top of it contains a giant ventilation shaft for the plenary room, along with heat exchangers to recover the heat. The exhibition didn't state it, but I presume the incoming air is warmed up this way.
- Sharlin 4y agoThis arrangement is called gravity, or buoyancy-driven, ventilation; warm air rises and generates an updraft in a central ventilation conduit connected to an outlet vent in each unit. The replacement air is “sucked in” through an inlet, also in each apartment. It’s used in multi-story buildings everywhere, but it’s not as effective in lowrises. It can be boosted by having mechanical ventilation equipment on the roof – a rooftop ventilator – pulling air through the exhaust flue more effectively, and modern apartment buildings typically have this type of mechanical ventilation. (So even if your apartment only has a passive vent in the wall, that doesn’t necessarily mean the entire system is passive!) Today, the inlets may also be centralized; this allows for replacement air to be taken from wherever it’s the cleanest, eg. from the side not adjacent to a street. The air can also be filtered to improve its quality and even pre-heated to make heating more efficient and prevent the feeling of a draft.
- KronisLV 4y ago> There's also the German practice of lüften [1], or ventilating a home at least once per day Meanwhile, in Latvia there's a belief that "caurvējš" (drafts) are bad for you and that you'll catch a cold if you're in it for too long. I've read some arguments for and against that online (mentions of cold stress, muscles posssibly tensing up to remain warm leading to a stiff neck, possibly nose being a bit more dry and susceptible to things in the air), but people over here typically just accept it as "fact". I can kind of understand caution when it's -10 C outside, but less so when you're in a stuffy room and it's 20 C outside. Curiously, people in some other countries don't have such strongly held beliefs.
- xhevahir 4y agoThe Slavic countries have similar folk beliefs about drafts: https://www.slavorum.org/promaja-the-uncatchable-balkan-serial-killer-and-bane-of-every-babushka/ https://www.slavorum.org/promaja-the-uncatchable-balkan-seri... https://www.rbth.com/lifestyle/328478-why-russians-afraid-drafts https://www.rbth.com/lifestyle/328478-why-russians-afraid-dr...
- pbhjpbhj 4y agoMy mother used to complain about neck pain from drafts (the vent in the car primarily), now I get it too. It's like a milder form of the pain that follows a cramp. Maybe it's genetic?
- TomSwirly 4y agoI suspect you simply have young friends. I've lived in six countries, and old people everywhere want to keep their joints warm. I have the issue where we love a cold house but my hands don't, at least when I work, so the house is very cold, 14ºC/57º at night or even less, I get up wearing very little and make coffee in a chilly kitchen with pleasure, but then go to work in my shorts right beside a heater.
- samus 4y agoThere's not necessarily a conflict in these views though - short drafts are good to ensure ventilation, but long, continuous drafts are just plainly uncomfortable.
- emodendroket 4y agoMy old college dorm was like this, where the radiators would make it so hot you absolutely had to open the windows and even run a fan in the Massachusetts winter. Never occurred to me that maybe it was on purpose.
- Sharlin 4y agoSure; modern gas stoves are nothing compared to the coal- or wood-fueled stoves of the old, with their often ineffective and obviously unpowered exhaust mechanisms. Merely a hundred years ago, even in my wealthy Western country, many people lived in huts with only an opening in the ceiling for a chimney. And of course billions of people live like this right now, domestic coal or kerosene burners being one of the most pressing air quality issues in the world!