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There is so little organic matter in the topsoil due to modern farming practices and it gets worse every year. The result is soil that doesn't retain water, it

There is so little organic matter in the topsoil due to modern farming practices and it gets worse every year. The result is soil that doesn't retain water, it just runs off. This means that irrigation has to be more and more frequent, and it means that fertilizer runs off (causing algal blooms etc) more than it percolates into the soil Lots of places to read more about this issue and here's a start: https://www.nhm.ac.uk/discover/soil-degradation.html https://www.nhm.ac.uk/discover/soil-degradation.html

hedora 4y ago
It’s strange that the article you linked doesn’t mention no-till farming. Farmers replace the plows on their tractors (which turn over the soil) with knives that have fertilizer injectors on the tips. Rather than plow, then spray fertilizer on to the surface, they inject fertilizer into the ground. After a few years, earthworms reestablish themselves and naturally aerate the soil. This can be combined with other (well established, commercially available) precision agriculture techniques to minimize irrigation and fertilizer waste. The big problem is the up front cost of replacing tractor implements, and training labor. Anyway, this is much easier than agroforestry, building glass hydroponics towers, etc.
- hammock 4y ago
  Thanks I was looking for a youtube video that I couldn't find so I grabbed the first article I saw that explained that problem well. As for solutions, you are right no-till is a big one (the main one?) and is worth reading about elsewhere
tmountain 4y ago
Yup, most gardening books start off talking about humus, “dark, organic material that forms in soil when plant and animal matter decays.” Industrial farms are very far away from the foundations of healthy soil, and they need copious amounts of fertilizer and water to compensate. The food produced is less nutritious and less sustainable as a result. Consider investing in a local CSA if you have the opportunity. It’s a fantastic way to support locally sustainable agriculture.
- zdragnar 4y ago
  CSAs where I live are a luxury good for a few people to feel better about themselves. You pay in much more than you get back (compared to a grocery store), and what you get is geared towards variety to make it more appealing. As such, you get enough of any particular veg for one or two meals, at a cost that is wildly expensive for most people. I tried one summer, and it was cute but replaced approximately 0% of our grocery bill.
  - tmountain 4y ago
    I guess it depends on your goals. It will never be as affordable as the grocery store as the economies of scale aren't there. The idea is to provide reliable revenue to a local farm in exchange for high quality produce produced in a sustainable way. It doesn't make me feel particularly "better about myself" to connect with the family that provides us this service, but I do like their mission, and I want them to be successful, so in my case it's worth it. Also, I would imagine pricing varies wildly from one region to the next, so we may be comparing apples to oranges (or swiss chard for that matter).
  - Baeocystin 4y ago
    Just to throw out some numbers, I pay $27/box for my fruit n' veg mix, which I could mostly replicate for maybe $15-20 at the grocery store. But the freshness can't be beat, and I think it's fun to see what I can do with whatever shows up. It's definitely not replacing my entire grocery bill, of course, but I do think it is worth it.
    - screwturner68 4y ago
      That' not bad. Where I am for $45, you get a big bad of lettuce, a couple of potatoes and an onion. Last years was so disappointed that we didn't renew. Ten years ago the same CSA was $600 for the season, 4 months, and it was a good sized bag with a pretty nice selection of produce. Granted I think every bag included some beets but by the middle of the season I really liked beets so it was a plus. Now it jut seems to be a better deal to go to the farmers market and get whatever looks good.
mattpallissard 4y ago
I'm not sure why the general tone of HN seems to be that modern farming isn't changing at all. Erosion has been on everyone's radar for decades. We went from plow -> till -> low till -> no till. Believe me, the folks who do this talk about plowing practices and cover crops. They also discuss GMO crops and the crazy legal restrictions around seed that come with it. > Brown earth has a deep top layer where most of the nutrients are and biological activities take place. At around 20 centimetres deep Fun fact, where I grew up there is over 10 feet of black dirt before you hit bedrock. A lot of the Midwestern US is like that. Even with all that runway those guys _still_ discuss erosion.
- ilostmyshoes 4y ago
  What they don't seem to be talking about is learning from indigenous farming communities who use things like diversity in crops and rotation to keep soil quality high. These problems were solved decades ago, just not by the industrial farming community
  - peteradio 4y ago
    Crop rotation is a standard practice. Sugar beats cannot be grown year after year on the same plot.
  - tnel77 4y ago
    Crop rotation seems to be pretty widespread. I remember as a kid learning about it and knowing I’d see different crops each year to help the soil for future harvests.
  - hedgehog 4y ago
    Like the rest of industrial age development, farm automation has historically been built around treating everything uniformly (even distribution of seeds bred for easy harvest in evenly spaced rows evenly fertilizied with no rocks etc etc). Moving away from that introduces all kinds of complexity, mechanical problems, data problems, etc, which are not easy to solve even when you have historical existence proofs of potentially better ways to do things. It's happening though.
ulnarkressty 4y ago
Farmers mix superabsorbent polymers in the soil to improve water retention. https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/Factory-Price-Wholesale-superabsorbent-polymer-Agriculture_1600094608700.html https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/Factory-Price-Wholesa...
- misterprime 4y ago
  This sounds like it's begging for an article in 20 years about "Why we never should have used superabsorbent polymers in agriculture". Won't these things get broken apart after years of working the ground? Won't they potentially contaminate other areas by traveling downstream or being blown by the wind?

hedora 4y ago

It’s strange that the article you linked doesn’t mention no-till farming. Farmers replace the plows on their tractors (which turn over the soil) with knives that have fertilizer injectors on the tips. Rather than plow, then spray fertilizer on to the surface, they inject fertilizer into the ground. After a few years, earthworms reestablish themselves and naturally aerate the soil. This can be combined with other (well established, commercially available) precision agriculture techniques to minimize irrigation and fertilizer waste. The big problem is the up front cost of replacing tractor implements, and training labor. Anyway, this is much easier than agroforestry, building glass hydroponics towers, etc.

hammock 4y ago
Thanks I was looking for a youtube video that I couldn't find so I grabbed the first article I saw that explained that problem well. As for solutions, you are right no-till is a big one (the main one?) and is worth reading about elsewhere

tmountain 4y ago

Yup, most gardening books start off talking about humus, “dark, organic material that forms in soil when plant and animal matter decays.” Industrial farms are very far away from the foundations of healthy soil, and they need copious amounts of fertilizer and water to compensate. The food produced is less nutritious and less sustainable as a result. Consider investing in a local CSA if you have the opportunity. It’s a fantastic way to support locally sustainable agriculture.

zdragnar 4y ago
CSAs where I live are a luxury good for a few people to feel better about themselves. You pay in much more than you get back (compared to a grocery store), and what you get is geared towards variety to make it more appealing. As such, you get enough of any particular veg for one or two meals, at a cost that is wildly expensive for most people. I tried one summer, and it was cute but replaced approximately 0% of our grocery bill.
- tmountain 4y ago
  I guess it depends on your goals. It will never be as affordable as the grocery store as the economies of scale aren't there. The idea is to provide reliable revenue to a local farm in exchange for high quality produce produced in a sustainable way. It doesn't make me feel particularly "better about myself" to connect with the family that provides us this service, but I do like their mission, and I want them to be successful, so in my case it's worth it. Also, I would imagine pricing varies wildly from one region to the next, so we may be comparing apples to oranges (or swiss chard for that matter).
- Baeocystin 4y ago
  Just to throw out some numbers, I pay $27/box for my fruit n' veg mix, which I could mostly replicate for maybe $15-20 at the grocery store. But the freshness can't be beat, and I think it's fun to see what I can do with whatever shows up. It's definitely not replacing my entire grocery bill, of course, but I do think it is worth it.
  - screwturner68 4y ago
    That' not bad. Where I am for $45, you get a big bad of lettuce, a couple of potatoes and an onion. Last years was so disappointed that we didn't renew. Ten years ago the same CSA was $600 for the season, 4 months, and it was a good sized bag with a pretty nice selection of produce. Granted I think every bag included some beets but by the middle of the season I really liked beets so it was a plus. Now it jut seems to be a better deal to go to the farmers market and get whatever looks good.

mattpallissard 4y ago

I'm not sure why the general tone of HN seems to be that modern farming isn't changing at all. Erosion has been on everyone's radar for decades. We went from plow -> till -> low till -> no till. Believe me, the folks who do this talk about plowing practices and cover crops. They also discuss GMO crops and the crazy legal restrictions around seed that come with it. > Brown earth has a deep top layer where most of the nutrients are and biological activities take place. At around 20 centimetres deep Fun fact, where I grew up there is over 10 feet of black dirt before you hit bedrock. A lot of the Midwestern US is like that. Even with all that runway those guys _still_ discuss erosion.

ilostmyshoes 4y ago
What they don't seem to be talking about is learning from indigenous farming communities who use things like diversity in crops and rotation to keep soil quality high. These problems were solved decades ago, just not by the industrial farming community
- peteradio 4y ago
  Crop rotation is a standard practice. Sugar beats cannot be grown year after year on the same plot.
- tnel77 4y ago
  Crop rotation seems to be pretty widespread. I remember as a kid learning about it and knowing I’d see different crops each year to help the soil for future harvests.
- hedgehog 4y ago
  Like the rest of industrial age development, farm automation has historically been built around treating everything uniformly (even distribution of seeds bred for easy harvest in evenly spaced rows evenly fertilizied with no rocks etc etc). Moving away from that introduces all kinds of complexity, mechanical problems, data problems, etc, which are not easy to solve even when you have historical existence proofs of potentially better ways to do things. It's happening though.

ulnarkressty 4y ago

Farmers mix superabsorbent polymers in the soil to improve water retention. https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/Factory-Price-Wholesale-superabsorbent-polymer-Agriculture_1600094608700.html https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/Factory-Price-Wholesa...

misterprime 4y ago
This sounds like it's begging for an article in 20 years about "Why we never should have used superabsorbent polymers in agriculture". Won't these things get broken apart after years of working the ground? Won't they potentially contaminate other areas by traveling downstream or being blown by the wind?