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Recently, I have seen a short-sighted push to allow human waste to fertilize crops. That is absolutely 100% not the solution to anything for probably a dozen v

Recently, I have seen a short-sighted push to allow human waste to fertilize crops. That is absolutely 100% not the solution to anything for probably a dozen very good reasons. The impact of this kind of "recycling" is well studied and the negatives outweigh the positives.

dyndos 4y ago
Care to elaborate? What did those studies show? As far as I know, properly handled humanure is quite effective. And it's better than letting excess nitrogen seep into the waterways.
ch4s3 4y ago
Pharmaceutical contamination seems like the biggest problem, but I guess heating to kill pathogens makes the energy math unfavorable as well.
- debacle 4y ago
  You can kill the pathogens through curing the compost, but that takes time, space, and equipment. In the meantime you'd be dealing with hazardous waste.
GalenErso 4y ago
North Korea uses human waste as a fertilizer. Which causes this: North Korean defector found to have 'enormous parasites' https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-42021373.amp https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-420... > "I've never seen anything like this in my 20 years as a physician," South Korean doctor Lee Cook-jong told journalists, explaining that the longest worm removed from the patient's intestines was 27cm (11in) long. > In 2015 South Korean researchers studied the health records of North Korean defectors who had visited a hospital in Cheonan between 2006 and 2014. > They found that they showed higher rates of chronic hepatitis B, chronic hepatitis C, tuberculosis and parasite infections, compared to South Koreans. > The soldier's food may have been contaminated because the North still uses human faeces as fertiliser, known as "night soil". > Lee Min-bok, a North Korean agriculture expert, told Reuters: "Chemical fertiliser was supplied by the state until the 1970s. By the 1990s, the state could not supply it any more, so farmers started to use a lot of night soil instead."
- hgsgm 4y ago
  Do human parasites in human poop spread to more humans animals fed on plants fed on human poop, or only of humans eat the plants fed on human poop? Can the parasites be filtered away? Also, couldn't NK parasites be explained by a general lack of health and hygiene technology in NK? Parasites are a major problem in large parts of Africa too, but are controlled when medications are deployed.
  - toast0 4y ago
    Some parasites are human specific, but a lot of them will manage just fine in many mammals. Health and hygiene is likely a major factor, but managing human waste in a sanitary way is one of the big jobs of community health and hygiene efforts; that and access to clean water. Proper health protocols wouldn't allow for untreated night soil to be used as fertilizer, but maybe they don't have access to treatment or other fertilizer, so there you go.
- ceejayoz 4y ago
  > North Korea uses human waste as a fertilizer. Which causes this: North Korean defector found to have 'enormous parasites' Using untreated human waste causes that.
- tastyfreeze 4y ago
  Living in borderline survivable conditions makes the body much more susceptible to infection. Add to that a virtually non-existent medical system and people are going to be overall less healthy. Using "night soil" is likely low on the list of causes for higher infection rates in North Korea. Comparing the health of North Koreans and South Koreans is not a fare comparison. One nation has medical infrastructure, a good food supply, and a functioning economy. The other is a black hole with people regularly starving, no legal economy, and medical care only for the politically connected.
- bigbillheck 4y ago
  I've stopped believing sensational stories about North Korea after one too many stories about someone official getting executed only for them to show up alive and well a few weeks later. Hepatitis B is a STD; presumably they meant Hepatitis A? There was an outbreak of that just last year in the US: https://www.cdc.gov/hepatitis/outbreaks/2022/hav-contaminated-food/index.htm https://www.cdc.gov/hepatitis/outbreaks/2022/hav-contaminate... that appear to have come from Mexican strawberries; 'the Mexicans must be using night soil' is not the first conclusion I would have jumped to. Same for Hepatitis C, in 2020 there were 107k newly identified chronic infections in the US. Regarding the worm, a quick google suggests that the largest roundworm parasite of humans is Ascaris lumbercoides, about which wiki tells me that males are up to 12 inches long and females up to 19 inches long; an 11 incher doesn't seem that remarkable in comparison.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
rr888 4y ago
I thought it was actually a pretty good solution for two problems. Maybe for crops like wheat which are processed, rather than lettuce. Trees seem good too.
photochemsyn 4y ago
Well, if you have a modern sewage treatment plant it is possible to recover phosphate and ammonium (NH4+) as relatively pure chemicals at the end of the process prior to releasing the treated water back into the environment. It's a bit cost-intensive to do this however, but it might make economic sense as fertilizer scarcity grows, especially for the phosphorous fraction. But yes, applying untreated human feces to agricultural fields is a very bad idea from the infectious disease and parasite transfer perspective. Also, many sewage streams have additional contaminants (heavy metals etc.) from industrial sources, and varying levels of pharmaceuticals of all kinds.
CuriouslyC 4y ago
Human waste can be composted and leached out into aquaculture systems or the irrigation system for livestock crops.
Scoundreller 4y ago
I wish we normalized taking a piss on the footprint of my backyard Apple tree or where my tomato garden will be. Supposedly one person is capable of providing enough fertilizer through urine for a few hundred square meters of crop per year.
- undersuit 4y ago
  I watched a video on YT about a man in Arizona or New Mexico who put in a piping system to his backyard fruit trees that is fed by his outdoor urinal. He lives in the middle of a standard urban neighborhood.
  - arghnoname 4y ago
    Is the salt a problem?

dyndos 4y ago

Care to elaborate? What did those studies show? As far as I know, properly handled humanure is quite effective. And it's better than letting excess nitrogen seep into the waterways.

ch4s3 4y ago

Pharmaceutical contamination seems like the biggest problem, but I guess heating to kill pathogens makes the energy math unfavorable as well.

debacle 4y ago
You can kill the pathogens through curing the compost, but that takes time, space, and equipment. In the meantime you'd be dealing with hazardous waste.

GalenErso 4y ago

North Korea uses human waste as a fertilizer. Which causes this: North Korean defector found to have 'enormous parasites' https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-42021373.amp https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-420... > "I've never seen anything like this in my 20 years as a physician," South Korean doctor Lee Cook-jong told journalists, explaining that the longest worm removed from the patient's intestines was 27cm (11in) long. > In 2015 South Korean researchers studied the health records of North Korean defectors who had visited a hospital in Cheonan between 2006 and 2014. > They found that they showed higher rates of chronic hepatitis B, chronic hepatitis C, tuberculosis and parasite infections, compared to South Koreans. > The soldier's food may have been contaminated because the North still uses human faeces as fertiliser, known as "night soil". > Lee Min-bok, a North Korean agriculture expert, told Reuters: "Chemical fertiliser was supplied by the state until the 1970s. By the 1990s, the state could not supply it any more, so farmers started to use a lot of night soil instead."

hgsgm 4y ago
Do human parasites in human poop spread to more humans animals fed on plants fed on human poop, or only of humans eat the plants fed on human poop? Can the parasites be filtered away? Also, couldn't NK parasites be explained by a general lack of health and hygiene technology in NK? Parasites are a major problem in large parts of Africa too, but are controlled when medications are deployed.
- toast0 4y ago
  Some parasites are human specific, but a lot of them will manage just fine in many mammals. Health and hygiene is likely a major factor, but managing human waste in a sanitary way is one of the big jobs of community health and hygiene efforts; that and access to clean water. Proper health protocols wouldn't allow for untreated night soil to be used as fertilizer, but maybe they don't have access to treatment or other fertilizer, so there you go.
ceejayoz 4y ago
> North Korea uses human waste as a fertilizer. Which causes this: North Korean defector found to have 'enormous parasites' Using untreated human waste causes that.
tastyfreeze 4y ago
Living in borderline survivable conditions makes the body much more susceptible to infection. Add to that a virtually non-existent medical system and people are going to be overall less healthy. Using "night soil" is likely low on the list of causes for higher infection rates in North Korea. Comparing the health of North Koreans and South Koreans is not a fare comparison. One nation has medical infrastructure, a good food supply, and a functioning economy. The other is a black hole with people regularly starving, no legal economy, and medical care only for the politically connected.
bigbillheck 4y ago
I've stopped believing sensational stories about North Korea after one too many stories about someone official getting executed only for them to show up alive and well a few weeks later. Hepatitis B is a STD; presumably they meant Hepatitis A? There was an outbreak of that just last year in the US: https://www.cdc.gov/hepatitis/outbreaks/2022/hav-contaminated-food/index.htm https://www.cdc.gov/hepatitis/outbreaks/2022/hav-contaminate... that appear to have come from Mexican strawberries; 'the Mexicans must be using night soil' is not the first conclusion I would have jumped to. Same for Hepatitis C, in 2020 there were 107k newly identified chronic infections in the US. Regarding the worm, a quick google suggests that the largest roundworm parasite of humans is Ascaris lumbercoides, about which wiki tells me that males are up to 12 inches long and females up to 19 inches long; an 11 incher doesn't seem that remarkable in comparison.

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

rr888 4y ago

I thought it was actually a pretty good solution for two problems. Maybe for crops like wheat which are processed, rather than lettuce. Trees seem good too.

photochemsyn 4y ago

Well, if you have a modern sewage treatment plant it is possible to recover phosphate and ammonium (NH4+) as relatively pure chemicals at the end of the process prior to releasing the treated water back into the environment. It's a bit cost-intensive to do this however, but it might make economic sense as fertilizer scarcity grows, especially for the phosphorous fraction. But yes, applying untreated human feces to agricultural fields is a very bad idea from the infectious disease and parasite transfer perspective. Also, many sewage streams have additional contaminants (heavy metals etc.) from industrial sources, and varying levels of pharmaceuticals of all kinds.

CuriouslyC 4y ago

Human waste can be composted and leached out into aquaculture systems or the irrigation system for livestock crops.

Scoundreller 4y ago

I wish we normalized taking a piss on the footprint of my backyard Apple tree or where my tomato garden will be. Supposedly one person is capable of providing enough fertilizer through urine for a few hundred square meters of crop per year.

undersuit 4y ago
I watched a video on YT about a man in Arizona or New Mexico who put in a piping system to his backyard fruit trees that is fed by his outdoor urinal. He lives in the middle of a standard urban neighborhood.
- arghnoname 4y ago
  Is the salt a problem?