5 ms·

Metric Paper [video]

59 points by mmastrac 4y ago

_Microft 4y ago
The video that this one is alluding to (or paying tribute to?) is called "Powers of Ten" from 1977. If that does not sound familiar, I recommend you watch it as well. It's a gem. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0fKBhvDjuy0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0fKBhvDjuy0
- thangalin 4y ago
  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KEHCCsFFIuY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KEHCCsFFIuY Star Size Comparison 3 (Vortex) is incredible.
- kmoser 4y ago
  Pretty sure that was influenced by an earlier film, Cosmic Zoom, from 1968: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VgfwCrKe_Fk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VgfwCrKe_Fk
  - _Microft 4y ago
    It absolutely looks like it. Thanks for sharing!
  - zinekeller 4y ago
    It is more likely that both of the films were inspired by a common source which is a book titled Cosmic Zoom by the Dutch educator Kees Boeke (since both of the films credited the book). Also like these two, the book is available to view online: http://www.vendian.org/mncharity/cosmicview/ http://www.vendian.org/mncharity/cosmicview/
smusamashah 4y ago
It's the ratio which is important here. The type of unit (metric or not) doesn't really matter.
- Symbiote 4y ago
  "The paper dimension standard used in essentially all countries using the metric system, specified in the metric system, and with constants chosen to fit nicely with that system" is a bit long. An A0 sheet has an area of 1m². For the ratio in general, see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Square_root_of_2 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Square_root_of_2
  - rdlw 4y ago
    ISO paper
- mikewarot 4y ago
  That invites a formulae for the sides A(n) paper is 2^((1/2-n)/2) * 2^((-1/2-n)/2) meters, with an area of 2^-n meters^2 A0 is thus 2^(1/4) meters x 2^(-1/4) meters
jml7c5 4y ago
It's silly, but I wish the HD aspect ratio had been the golden ratio. There's something very satisfying about it, even if its properties would be of little practical use. (Though I wouldn't have minded the extra vertical space!)
- delta_p_delta_x 4y ago
  It used to be almost the golden ratio. 16:10 monitors and notebook panels were very common around 2008 – 2011 or so, until 16:9 took over after televisions and 'HDTV' made it popular. MacBooks have always been 16:10. And recently, 16:10 appears to be making a resurgence once again—many notebook models that were 16:9 1080p have moved to WQXGA 2560 × 1600.
- apricot 4y ago
  I paid extra to get a 16:10 monitor instead of a 16:9 monitor at similar specs back in 2009 or so. Those extra pixels of vertical space really come in handy! I'm still using the same monitor today (a Dell U2410).
nabla9 4y ago
The standard was proposed by mathematician Lazare Carnot. In addition to A series, there is also B series (and C series). They all have the same aspect ratio √2 B0 is 1 metre wide, while A0 is 1 meter long. The area of B series sheets is the geometric mean of successive A series sheets. Many books are printed in size B5. When you fold A4 it fits neatly between the pages. Letter written on A4 paper fits inside a C4 envelope, and both A4 paper and C4 envelope fit inside a B4 envelope.
- amelius 4y ago
  > A0 is 1 meter long That doesn't sound right, as A0 is 1 square meter, and it isn't square.
cxr 4y ago
Here's my pitch for encouraging the adoption of metric units in holdout places like the US: acknowledge that the foot is a convenient goldilocks unit for describing "human-scale" objects i.e. those that you are likely to find yourself using your hands to work with, and advocate for the widespread use of an SI-based unit that is neither the centimeter (itself being too small for this purpose) nor the meter (being too large). The decimeter (i.e. 10cm; ⅒ of a meter) has been hiding in plain sight and fits the bill adequately. It is, however, awkward to communicate. It's about the same width as the width across an average adult's hand, so let's rebrand the decimeter as the "metric hand", or just "hand" in informal contexts. Conveniently, there are approximately 3 metric hands in 1 foot. The error, 1.6mm per hand, is negligible, and in instances where accuracy and/or precision is at a premium you can rest safe knowing that it really does accumulate at 1.6mm per hand exactly, and not some intractable quantity like the one that comes up with approximating 1 kg as 2.2 lbs. Previously: <https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28455838 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28455838>
- benj111 4y ago
  Well as a Brit I'm pretty 'bilingual' when it comes to measures. The foot is pretty useful, but you never need the precision. As you say, it's a human scale measure. If you're getting the tape measure out, just use cm and metres.
  - cxr 4y ago
    > If you're getting the tape measure out, just use cm and metres. The point is that people who get paid to use tape measures do measure things in feet and inches and aren't "just us[ing]" centimeters and meters instead. The proliferation of the metric hand would help with this, since it sidesteps the downside to centimeters and meters I've described. Settling on centimeters as a common unit and neglecting the decimeter is quite odd on its own.
    - cjohnson318 4y ago
      As an imperial tape measure user, I hate base 12. I've memorized a number of multiples of 12, but c'mon.
mihaic 4y ago
There is one cool trick I use with metric paper: since A0 is a square meter, and comprises of 16 A4 sheets, when you see paper with weight per square meter, you need to divide by 16 to get the weight of a single sheet of paper. In practice regular paper has ~80g/m^2, meaning 5 grams per sheet, meaning a ream of 500 sheets has exactly 2.5 kg.

59 points by mmastrac 4y ago

The video that this one is alluding to (or paying tribute to?) is called "Powers of Ten" from 1977. If that does not sound familiar, I recommend you watch it as well. It's a gem. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0fKBhvDjuy0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0fKBhvDjuy0

thangalin 4y ago
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KEHCCsFFIuY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KEHCCsFFIuY Star Size Comparison 3 (Vortex) is incredible.
kmoser 4y ago
Pretty sure that was influenced by an earlier film, Cosmic Zoom, from 1968: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VgfwCrKe_Fk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VgfwCrKe_Fk
- _Microft 4y ago
  It absolutely looks like it. Thanks for sharing!
- zinekeller 4y ago
  It is more likely that both of the films were inspired by a common source which is a book titled Cosmic Zoom by the Dutch educator Kees Boeke (since both of the films credited the book). Also like these two, the book is available to view online: http://www.vendian.org/mncharity/cosmicview/ http://www.vendian.org/mncharity/cosmicview/

smusamashah 4y ago

It's the ratio which is important here. The type of unit (metric or not) doesn't really matter.

Symbiote 4y ago
"The paper dimension standard used in essentially all countries using the metric system, specified in the metric system, and with constants chosen to fit nicely with that system" is a bit long. An A0 sheet has an area of 1m². For the ratio in general, see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Square_root_of_2 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Square_root_of_2
- rdlw 4y ago
  ISO paper
mikewarot 4y ago
That invites a formulae for the sides A(n) paper is 2^((1/2-n)/2) * 2^((-1/2-n)/2) meters, with an area of 2^-n meters^2 A0 is thus 2^(1/4) meters x 2^(-1/4) meters

jml7c5 4y ago

It's silly, but I wish the HD aspect ratio had been the golden ratio. There's something very satisfying about it, even if its properties would be of little practical use. (Though I wouldn't have minded the extra vertical space!)

delta_p_delta_x 4y ago
It used to be almost the golden ratio. 16:10 monitors and notebook panels were very common around 2008 – 2011 or so, until 16:9 took over after televisions and 'HDTV' made it popular. MacBooks have always been 16:10. And recently, 16:10 appears to be making a resurgence once again—many notebook models that were 16:9 1080p have moved to WQXGA 2560 × 1600.
apricot 4y ago
I paid extra to get a 16:10 monitor instead of a 16:9 monitor at similar specs back in 2009 or so. Those extra pixels of vertical space really come in handy! I'm still using the same monitor today (a Dell U2410).

nabla9 4y ago

The standard was proposed by mathematician Lazare Carnot. In addition to A series, there is also B series (and C series). They all have the same aspect ratio √2 B0 is 1 metre wide, while A0 is 1 meter long. The area of B series sheets is the geometric mean of successive A series sheets. Many books are printed in size B5. When you fold A4 it fits neatly between the pages. Letter written on A4 paper fits inside a C4 envelope, and both A4 paper and C4 envelope fit inside a B4 envelope.

amelius 4y ago
> A0 is 1 meter long That doesn't sound right, as A0 is 1 square meter, and it isn't square.

cxr 4y ago

Here's my pitch for encouraging the adoption of metric units in holdout places like the US: acknowledge that the foot is a convenient goldilocks unit for describing "human-scale" objects i.e. those that you are likely to find yourself using your hands to work with, and advocate for the widespread use of an SI-based unit that is neither the centimeter (itself being too small for this purpose) nor the meter (being too large). The decimeter (i.e. 10cm; ⅒ of a meter) has been hiding in plain sight and fits the bill adequately. It is, however, awkward to communicate. It's about the same width as the width across an average adult's hand, so let's rebrand the decimeter as the "metric hand", or just "hand" in informal contexts. Conveniently, there are approximately 3 metric hands in 1 foot. The error, 1.6mm per hand, is negligible, and in instances where accuracy and/or precision is at a premium you can rest safe knowing that it really does accumulate at 1.6mm per hand exactly, and not some intractable quantity like the one that comes up with approximating 1 kg as 2.2 lbs. Previously: <https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28455838 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28455838>

benj111 4y ago
Well as a Brit I'm pretty 'bilingual' when it comes to measures. The foot is pretty useful, but you never need the precision. As you say, it's a human scale measure. If you're getting the tape measure out, just use cm and metres.
- cxr 4y ago
  > If you're getting the tape measure out, just use cm and metres. The point is that people who get paid to use tape measures do measure things in feet and inches and aren't "just us[ing]" centimeters and meters instead. The proliferation of the metric hand would help with this, since it sidesteps the downside to centimeters and meters I've described. Settling on centimeters as a common unit and neglecting the decimeter is quite odd on its own.
  - cjohnson318 4y ago
    As an imperial tape measure user, I hate base 12. I've memorized a number of multiples of 12, but c'mon.

mihaic 4y ago

There is one cool trick I use with metric paper: since A0 is a square meter, and comprises of 16 A4 sheets, when you see paper with weight per square meter, you need to divide by 16 to get the weight of a single sheet of paper. In practice regular paper has ~80g/m^2, meaning 5 grams per sheet, meaning a ream of 500 sheets has exactly 2.5 kg.