5 ms·

British Gas admits agents break into struggling customers' homes

65 points by mellosouls 4y ago

mellosouls 4y ago
Original article (paywalled): https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/british-gas-prepayment-meter-debt-energy-bills-investigation-wrgnzt6xs https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/british-gas-prepayment-me...
niemandhier 4y ago
„ That the house of every one is to him as his Castle and Fortress as well for defence against injury and violence, as for his repose“ Sir Edward Coke, Semayne’s Case, 1604 https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semayne%27s_case https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semayne%27s_case
mrjh 4y ago
This while a certain energy company is reporting its "highest profits in 115 years"[1]. It's sickening to see the brutal efficiency with which the poor are made poorer while the 1% continue to line their pockets. [1] https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-64489147 https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-64489147
- MonkeyMalarky 4y ago
  >Centrica boss Chris O'Shea: "Every one of our customers deserves to be treated with respect" Eventually people are going to tire of being told one thing while another actually happens.
  - smoldesu 4y ago
    Well, they did say deserves, not "is treated with". He's basically admitting guilt, saying that respect is part of their business and any failure to deliver that is a failure of the business. Relative to quotes like "don't do evil" or "privacy is a human right", I'd say O'Shea's response is pretty balanced here.
    - he_is_legend 4y ago
      Doesn't work quite the same way in reverse though. "Every energy corporation deserves to be paid for their pillaging of the earths resources." Failure to pay for said pillaging has slightly different results.
unculture 4y ago
The absolute worst thing about forced installations of pay-as-you-go energy meters is that they carry the highest per-unit energy price in the country. We force the neediest to pay the most.
- orra 4y ago
  It's horrible, isn't it? You're forced to prepay for your energy, and instead of getting a discount, you get shafted.
- bitcharmer 4y ago
  Sadly this is nothing new in the modern world. Just look at how much taxes are paid by the rich vs the common folk. This assymetry and the exploitation of the most vulnerable is part of the system we currently live in.
  - retube 4y ago
    In the UK at any rate, the top 1% of earners pay 33% of all income tax. A full 50% of the workforce now receive more in state benefits than they pay in taxes.
    - deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
    - Quarrelsome 4y ago
      > In the UK at any rate, the top 1% of earners pay 33% of all income tax. that statistic is disingenuous without also stating how much of the national income the top 1% earn. i.e. Its obvious that the top 1% pay the most tax because they earn the most.
      - johngladtj 4y ago
        If it's anything like other countries, then they make substantially less than what a proportional taxation would imply. In the us for example the top 1% pay 6 times the taxes than the bottom 50% on a dollar for dollar basis
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
lrptra 4y ago
Help is near! Russian gas flows to Europe via Ukraine rise, while Nuland is celebrating the destruction of Nord Stream: https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/russian-gas-europe-via-ukraine-transit-rises-2023-02-01/ https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/russian-gas-europe-v... Sorry for the sarcasm, but the whole gas business is so dirty that it would take a 4000 word essay to express it more gently. I hope the US and Quatar enjoy their LNG sales.
- Waterluvian 4y ago
  There’s a lot of countries that produce more/as much natural gas as Qatar. They just don’t fit a specified narrative as well. If we’re going to timidly poke at a big ol’ conspiracy, don’t forget Canada!
SteveSmith16384 4y ago
Although there's probably reasons in these cases, I'm amazed anyone still uses British Gas; they're consistently the worst energy supplier available and have been for years.
mschuster91 4y ago
> The suspension follows an undercover investigation by the Times whose reporter went with agents working for Arvato Financial Solutions - a company used by British Gas to pursue debts - to the home of a single father with three children. Why am I not surprised to see the name "Arvato" in there. For those OOTL: they have been under fire in Germany for using outdated datasets for credit scores [1], lacked identification requirements for obtaining credit reports [2], cooperated with Deutsche Bahn to use data of fare dodgers for credit scoring [3], and most recently for exploitative labor conditions in their Facebook moderation team [4]. [1] https://www.heise.de/newsticker/meldung/Bericht-Infoscore-nutzt-veraltete-Daten-bei-Bonitaetsberechnung-1545563.html https://www.heise.de/newsticker/meldung/Bericht-Infoscore-nu... [2] https://www.heise.de/newsticker/meldung/NDR-Mangelhafter-Datenschutz-bei-Bertelsmann-Auskunftei-Infoscore-2583029.html https://www.heise.de/newsticker/meldung/NDR-Mangelhafter-Dat... [3] https://www.zeit.de/digital/datenschutz/2016-05/bahn-kundendaten-infoscore-schwarzfahren https://www.zeit.de/digital/datenschutz/2016-05/bahn-kundend... [4] https://www.heise.de/newsticker/meldung/Verdi-kritisiert-prekaere-Arbeitsbedingungen-in-Facebooks-Loesch-Team-4625096.html https://www.heise.de/newsticker/meldung/Verdi-kritisiert-pre...
Lio 4y ago
I'm reminded of the Viz[1] mug celebrating the old Gas Board (the precursor of the current privatised utilities): Old Ladies, If You Don’t Pay Your Gas Bill This Winter You’re Going To Prison The Gas Board: We'll get our fucking bit - don't you worry That sentiment is supposed to be comically brutal but seeing British Gas break into people's homes and effectively force them to pay a higher price for energy... right now living in the UK is odd. 1. For those outside the UK, Viz is an adult satirical comic and great British institution. https://www.moretvicar.com/products/the-gas-board-mug https://www.moretvicar.com/products/the-gas-board-mug
- mellosouls 4y ago
  I remember that, one of many classic and truthful Viz moments.
LatteLazy 4y ago
On one hand it's shitty. But I also don't see why I should pay (and pay for them too) if they don't have to...
- a-priori 4y ago
  You don't understand why people should be able to cook food and heat their houses? This is a governance failure: for letting prices get out of control, for allowing poverty so bad that _people cannot heat their homes_, and then for allowing utilities to shut off people's utilities like this. It doesn't have to be that way: on that last point for example, in Ontario, Canada, there's a law that says that a utility cannot shut off a house's electricity or gas during the winter for non-payment. It doesn't matter how far behind you get on your bills, it's illegal to shut it off. This would, I think, make pre-payment meters illegal here, and this probably explains why I've never heard of them being a thing.
  - LatteLazy 4y ago
    Make energy free for everyone, I am fine with that.
    - Gigachad 4y ago
      Cool, I’ll crank my heating up and open the windows for fresh air. Probably set up a bitcoin mining rig too.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  - tomjen3 4y ago
    I mean around here in Denmark the alternative is that you get your energy connection terminated and have to pay big fees to get it turned on again. By your admission it is not illegal to turn the electricity of during summer, but presumably people have to cook there too? The solution is not to let people use electricity without payment, because that will be abused. Have the bills be paid directly for those on unemployment if you want, raise the benefits to match if you want, but a system where there is nothing that effectively stops you from not paying is going to result it bad outcomes for everyone.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
gs17 4y ago
I had no idea prepayment meters existed for gas in homes. There's a case in The Great Ace Attorney revolving around gas in 1900s London, and I had assumed the meter in it was entirely fiction!
tzs 4y ago
British gas meters are inside the house?

65 points by mellosouls 4y ago

Original article (paywalled): https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/british-gas-prepayment-meter-debt-energy-bills-investigation-wrgnzt6xs https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/british-gas-prepayment-me...

niemandhier 4y ago

„ That the house of every one is to him as his Castle and Fortress as well for defence against injury and violence, as for his repose“ Sir Edward Coke, Semayne’s Case, 1604 https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semayne%27s_case https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semayne%27s_case

mrjh 4y ago

This while a certain energy company is reporting its "highest profits in 115 years"[1]. It's sickening to see the brutal efficiency with which the poor are made poorer while the 1% continue to line their pockets. [1] https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-64489147 https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-64489147

MonkeyMalarky 4y ago
>Centrica boss Chris O'Shea: "Every one of our customers deserves to be treated with respect" Eventually people are going to tire of being told one thing while another actually happens.
- smoldesu 4y ago
  Well, they did say deserves, not "is treated with". He's basically admitting guilt, saying that respect is part of their business and any failure to deliver that is a failure of the business. Relative to quotes like "don't do evil" or "privacy is a human right", I'd say O'Shea's response is pretty balanced here.
  - he_is_legend 4y ago
    Doesn't work quite the same way in reverse though. "Every energy corporation deserves to be paid for their pillaging of the earths resources." Failure to pay for said pillaging has slightly different results.

unculture 4y ago

The absolute worst thing about forced installations of pay-as-you-go energy meters is that they carry the highest per-unit energy price in the country. We force the neediest to pay the most.

orra 4y ago
It's horrible, isn't it? You're forced to prepay for your energy, and instead of getting a discount, you get shafted.
bitcharmer 4y ago
Sadly this is nothing new in the modern world. Just look at how much taxes are paid by the rich vs the common folk. This assymetry and the exploitation of the most vulnerable is part of the system we currently live in.
- retube 4y ago
  In the UK at any rate, the top 1% of earners pay 33% of all income tax. A full 50% of the workforce now receive more in state benefits than they pay in taxes.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  - Quarrelsome 4y ago
    > In the UK at any rate, the top 1% of earners pay 33% of all income tax. that statistic is disingenuous without also stating how much of the national income the top 1% earn. i.e. Its obvious that the top 1% pay the most tax because they earn the most.
    - johngladtj 4y ago
      If it's anything like other countries, then they make substantially less than what a proportional taxation would imply. In the us for example the top 1% pay 6 times the taxes than the bottom 50% on a dollar for dollar basis

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

lrptra 4y ago

Help is near! Russian gas flows to Europe via Ukraine rise, while Nuland is celebrating the destruction of Nord Stream: https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/russian-gas-europe-via-ukraine-transit-rises-2023-02-01/ https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/russian-gas-europe-v... Sorry for the sarcasm, but the whole gas business is so dirty that it would take a 4000 word essay to express it more gently. I hope the US and Quatar enjoy their LNG sales.

Waterluvian 4y ago
There’s a lot of countries that produce more/as much natural gas as Qatar. They just don’t fit a specified narrative as well. If we’re going to timidly poke at a big ol’ conspiracy, don’t forget Canada!

SteveSmith16384 4y ago

Although there's probably reasons in these cases, I'm amazed anyone still uses British Gas; they're consistently the worst energy supplier available and have been for years.

mschuster91 4y ago

> The suspension follows an undercover investigation by the Times whose reporter went with agents working for Arvato Financial Solutions - a company used by British Gas to pursue debts - to the home of a single father with three children. Why am I not surprised to see the name "Arvato" in there. For those OOTL: they have been under fire in Germany for using outdated datasets for credit scores [1], lacked identification requirements for obtaining credit reports [2], cooperated with Deutsche Bahn to use data of fare dodgers for credit scoring [3], and most recently for exploitative labor conditions in their Facebook moderation team [4]. [1] https://www.heise.de/newsticker/meldung/Bericht-Infoscore-nutzt-veraltete-Daten-bei-Bonitaetsberechnung-1545563.html https://www.heise.de/newsticker/meldung/Bericht-Infoscore-nu... [2] https://www.heise.de/newsticker/meldung/NDR-Mangelhafter-Datenschutz-bei-Bertelsmann-Auskunftei-Infoscore-2583029.html https://www.heise.de/newsticker/meldung/NDR-Mangelhafter-Dat... [3] https://www.zeit.de/digital/datenschutz/2016-05/bahn-kundendaten-infoscore-schwarzfahren https://www.zeit.de/digital/datenschutz/2016-05/bahn-kundend... [4] https://www.heise.de/newsticker/meldung/Verdi-kritisiert-prekaere-Arbeitsbedingungen-in-Facebooks-Loesch-Team-4625096.html https://www.heise.de/newsticker/meldung/Verdi-kritisiert-pre...

Lio 4y ago

I'm reminded of the Viz[1] mug celebrating the old Gas Board (the precursor of the current privatised utilities): Old Ladies, If You Don’t Pay Your Gas Bill This Winter You’re Going To Prison The Gas Board: We'll get our fucking bit - don't you worry That sentiment is supposed to be comically brutal but seeing British Gas break into people's homes and effectively force them to pay a higher price for energy... right now living in the UK is odd. 1. For those outside the UK, Viz is an adult satirical comic and great British institution. https://www.moretvicar.com/products/the-gas-board-mug https://www.moretvicar.com/products/the-gas-board-mug

mellosouls 4y ago
I remember that, one of many classic and truthful Viz moments.

LatteLazy 4y ago

On one hand it's shitty. But I also don't see why I should pay (and pay for them too) if they don't have to...

a-priori 4y ago
You don't understand why people should be able to cook food and heat their houses? This is a governance failure: for letting prices get out of control, for allowing poverty so bad that _people cannot heat their homes_, and then for allowing utilities to shut off people's utilities like this. It doesn't have to be that way: on that last point for example, in Ontario, Canada, there's a law that says that a utility cannot shut off a house's electricity or gas during the winter for non-payment. It doesn't matter how far behind you get on your bills, it's illegal to shut it off. This would, I think, make pre-payment meters illegal here, and this probably explains why I've never heard of them being a thing.
- LatteLazy 4y ago
  Make energy free for everyone, I am fine with that.
  - Gigachad 4y ago
    Cool, I’ll crank my heating up and open the windows for fresh air. Probably set up a bitcoin mining rig too.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- tomjen3 4y ago
  I mean around here in Denmark the alternative is that you get your energy connection terminated and have to pay big fees to get it turned on again. By your admission it is not illegal to turn the electricity of during summer, but presumably people have to cook there too? The solution is not to let people use electricity without payment, because that will be abused. Have the bills be paid directly for those on unemployment if you want, raise the benefits to match if you want, but a system where there is nothing that effectively stops you from not paying is going to result it bad outcomes for everyone.

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

gs17 4y ago

I had no idea prepayment meters existed for gas in homes. There's a case in The Great Ace Attorney revolving around gas in 1900s London, and I had assumed the meter in it was entirely fiction!

tzs 4y ago

British gas meters are inside the house?