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>Google doesn't want experienced, highly capable engineers sitting around wasting their talents on dead-end projects, and they certainly won't be rewarded for i

>Google doesn't want experienced, highly capable engineers sitting around wasting their talents on dead-end projects, and they certainly won't be rewarded for it. It's supposed to be management's responsibility to pick projects that will be successful. If a project turns out to be a dead-end, that's either management's fault, or just the way the market worked out and no one's fault (you can't always predict what's going to be popular or successful). And if a project is clearly a dead-end, then why is management wasting money on it instead of canceling it and moving the talent to better places? Basically, Google's system just rewards people for being lucky.

morelisp 4y ago
Engineers: "We want an engineering-led organization!" Google: "OK, here's some real responsibility over company direction." Engineers: "No, not like that." I mean, I work at a normal-ass medium-sized company and at our top level of IC technical staff even we're expected to help management choose between different strategic options and point out places we can improve the product based on technical synergies or easy wins they may not be aware of. If we do a bad job at this, we will also get laid off on way or another, at latest when the company runs out of money. Especially at Google's size, you can just throw up your hands and say "oh well, the market is hard to guess." You are the market!
- ohgodplsno 4y ago
  Except Google is everything but an engineering-led organisation. Google: "Here's some real responsibility over company direction" Engineers: "So we get to work on things we want to move the company forward with, yes?" Google: "Yes" Engineers: "And we get rewarded for making good products that work well, yes?" Google: "Only if the MBA clowns decide that's what they want" Google's behavior is even more insulting than being purely management-led.
  - morelisp 4y ago
    > Engineers: "And we get rewarded for making good products that work well, yes?" This is not what engineers say (nor what the company needs unless you take vapid definitions of "good" and "well"). The MBAs aren't the ones asking for a dozen messaging apps!
winrid 4y ago
Imagine paying someone 3-600k a year and saying Big Boy Boss Bob needs to decide what you do everyday. Let the creative people you pay a lot make smart decisions and incentivize it.
thethethethe 4y ago
> It's supposed to be management's responsibility to pick projects that will be successful If you just do what management tells you at Google you will never be promoted past L4. You need to come up with new ideas and projects to sell to management. The key is to align your project ideas with what management says they want.
- twelve40 4y ago
  sounds really exhausting... if that's the constant expectation and you're actually good at it, why work for Google at all and not fundraise for yourself? cuz you're doing all the same legwork but your ideas go to the man.
  - sverhagen 4y ago
    If you can make 600k a year, a few years in a row (let's say three). How does 1.8M in hand stack up against starting your own business, with maybe a bigger potential number, but a lower statistical chance of making it there.
    - pedrosorio 4y ago
      600k gross is 340k net in California if you are married.
      - CydeWeys 4y ago
        Hopefully your spouse is earning a similar amount too!
        Slava_Propanei 4y ago
        [dead]
  - morelisp 4y ago
    Quite a lot of L9s did start companies, which were then acquired by Google. Others are working on things that already require a large amount of capital or influence, or just otherwise want to keep working on projects rather than administration.
CydeWeys 4y ago
> It's supposed to be management's responsibility to pick projects that will be successful. That's simply not how it works at Google. Everyone has skin in the game. Who are you to say how it's "supposed" to work there? I'm telling you how it actually is.

morelisp 4y ago

Engineers: "We want an engineering-led organization!" Google: "OK, here's some real responsibility over company direction." Engineers: "No, not like that." I mean, I work at a normal-ass medium-sized company and at our top level of IC technical staff even we're expected to help management choose between different strategic options and point out places we can improve the product based on technical synergies or easy wins they may not be aware of. If we do a bad job at this, we will also get laid off on way or another, at latest when the company runs out of money. Especially at Google's size, you can just throw up your hands and say "oh well, the market is hard to guess." You are the market!

ohgodplsno 4y ago
Except Google is everything but an engineering-led organisation. Google: "Here's some real responsibility over company direction" Engineers: "So we get to work on things we want to move the company forward with, yes?" Google: "Yes" Engineers: "And we get rewarded for making good products that work well, yes?" Google: "Only if the MBA clowns decide that's what they want" Google's behavior is even more insulting than being purely management-led.
- morelisp 4y ago
  > Engineers: "And we get rewarded for making good products that work well, yes?" This is not what engineers say (nor what the company needs unless you take vapid definitions of "good" and "well"). The MBAs aren't the ones asking for a dozen messaging apps!

winrid 4y ago

Imagine paying someone 3-600k a year and saying Big Boy Boss Bob needs to decide what you do everyday. Let the creative people you pay a lot make smart decisions and incentivize it.

thethethethe 4y ago

> It's supposed to be management's responsibility to pick projects that will be successful If you just do what management tells you at Google you will never be promoted past L4. You need to come up with new ideas and projects to sell to management. The key is to align your project ideas with what management says they want.

twelve40 4y ago
sounds really exhausting... if that's the constant expectation and you're actually good at it, why work for Google at all and not fundraise for yourself? cuz you're doing all the same legwork but your ideas go to the man.
- sverhagen 4y ago
  If you can make 600k a year, a few years in a row (let's say three). How does 1.8M in hand stack up against starting your own business, with maybe a bigger potential number, but a lower statistical chance of making it there.
  - pedrosorio 4y ago
    600k gross is 340k net in California if you are married.
    - CydeWeys 4y ago
      Hopefully your spouse is earning a similar amount too!
      - Slava_Propanei 4y ago
        [dead]
- morelisp 4y ago
  Quite a lot of L9s did start companies, which were then acquired by Google. Others are working on things that already require a large amount of capital or influence, or just otherwise want to keep working on projects rather than administration.

CydeWeys 4y ago

> It's supposed to be management's responsibility to pick projects that will be successful. That's simply not how it works at Google. Everyone has skin in the game. Who are you to say how it's "supposed" to work there? I'm telling you how it actually is.